UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #21

[Corneileus]

I tend to agree with your thinking corneileous i dont this was just PR implicated. The blood curdling screams heard at heathcoate st at 12.30 plus the two independent witness accounts in claremont stating the same time muddys the waters for me.

thanks...its feelings rather than thoughts...what a terrible tragedy this all this... this is the last ever crime site i go on for a year. too much man too much...

 

[mrazda71]

Sorry might have already been mentioned as not had chance to follow everything today...bloody homeschool.
Has it been put to him why he didn’t use a condom during ‘sex’ with Libby?
Surely if it was consensual as he says and didn’t want to cheat on his wife he would have done.
Also have the defence named any other people they are bringing forward?
again sorry if these things have been discussed, just give me a hint with a page no!

I have asked the court reporter this and he said 'he just didn't think to use one' ...

 

[Newthoughts]

haha I aint got the time for that pal, you can surely research both sides of the coin for your self, GOOGLE .

I don't need to google because an independent expert has already given his considered opinion. Any equally valid opinion from google would involve a trawl thru numerous scientific papers authored by someone with equal experience and then peer reviewed by people equally experienced.

I really don't have that skill or knowledge set so I can't challenge him. But you clearly do.

I don't need reams of detail just the basic physiology that you think he's missed. Obviously from proper scientific sources.

 

[havntgotaclue]

thanks...its feelings rather than thoughts...what a terrible tragedy this all this... this is the last ever crime site i go on for a year. too much man too much...

Everyone wants justice for libby, im just bumbling my way through this case. i just pray to god there isnt sb else still out there thats involved.

 

[Skigh]

i posted plenty of pics up for yas, covering the layby, of all the gates except the main gates which are locked on night and i showed the gate which is never locked and hasnt been locked for years.

The layby has only recently been made inaccessible by the new Bollards. I dont think i can explain it any better, like i said - take it or leave it. I dont BS, upto you if you feel i do, wont change my destiny

Why would PR take Libby to a place where it is,in your opinion,frequented by doggers and drug dealers?
I do not think he was interested in watching doggers who go to perform to an audience. His enjoyment came from performing in front of girls to scare and shock them.

 

[Corneileus]

If Libby got out as soon as is possible and ran as best she could in the only direction she could - into the park - he can take the time to get out, potentially lock his car (we heard they were both seen going in- we haven't been told they went in at the exact same time) and then run after her - she's already into the park by this point (heading towards the boatshed?)- finding her isn't a particular problem as it was white over with snow and illuminated by whichever moon shape and Libby was wearing all black so that would stand out - he catches up to her - throws her to the floor- the act takes less than a minute - rape and suffocation to stop her screaming - realises she's dead or near it and puts her in the river which is fairly nearby and then sprints out of the park- slowing a little past the house so as not to arouse too much suspicion.

The 3rd visit is either to check her body isn't still there ... although, have we been told he drove to ORPF a third time or that he went INTO the park (I forget) ... if it was just driving there and he didn't go IN, I would suggest maybe to relive it in proximity or to see if there was any police activity there. If there's not ... off to look for his next victim.

yeah that could work

 

[bos]

Right

In those temps, I really don't believe in the outdoor sex story - why not hit the backseat where it is warm?

I think what we don't know is whether she ultimately went into the park to try to get away - I can't really see why she would have gone in there with him otherwise

His first couple of versions had him state he had a wee.

When he masturbated at the two women in Wellesley Avenue, he initially claimed to be weeing & then explained the presence of semen as having recently had sex with his wife.

I suspect his default excuse for being seen with penis exposed is to claim weeing & that he put that in his initial versions in case anyone saw him with knob in hand.

If he’d turned his car round so passenger side was nearest entrance to park, that was probably the nearest exit from the situation.

I think the green shed was an easy landmark for him to choose to back up his story of remaining outside the park; he was familiar with the area. I doubt that he raped her there.

To me it’s more likely he’d started to try it on/expose himself in the car, an alarmed Libby bolted into the park & he pursued her in an even greater state of sexual excitement.

EBM or what @mrazda71 said a few posts before

 

[mrazda71]

My thoughts about timing are that it’s not only doubtful in the time frame, but also why? Why the rush? If you had murdered someone, or thought you had, as quickly as that, within a minute according to some - wouldn’t you think you would make sure that they were well and truly dead - watch for a while, make sure there’s no chance of coming around, or get out the water? He didn’t have a bus to catch - he was back out and about, not in a rush any other time.
I suggest that you would be more inclined to ensure the completion at the time of the action rather than return a couple of hours later.

BBM if she was unconscious and put in the river, I think it would be unrealistic to think she would not sink under the surface and die rather than try and get out.

 

[Corneileus]

Why would PR take Libby to a place where it is,in your opinion,frequented by doggers and drug dealers?
I do not think he was interested in watching doggers who go to perform to an audience. His enjoyment came from performing in front of girls to scare and shock them.

sorry just to add - he liked watching others have sex yes? through windows? is this correct. I had not considered what you are saying but in considering it, if more poeople are aware of this what i will call now (so my wording doesnt get changed so suit) a very dodgy spot. If pawel knew it was a dodgy spot, maybe on the other hand its a safer place for him to carry out the offense...?

 

[bos]

Why would PR take Libby to a place where it is,in your opinion,frequented by doggers and drug dealers?
I do not think he was interested in watching doggers who go to perform to an audience. His enjoyment came from performing in front of girls to scare and shock them.

There’s a difference between consenting couples having sex outdoors and attempting some kind of privacy by using a hedge for cover and dogging. The park probably is used for sex al fresco for these people. Dogging is a more “communal” sex pastime as Skigh says with an audience

 

[HollyHunter9]

I think very soon after getting into the car with him Libby realised something wasn't quite right. For a start he drives to Oak without any hesitation, perhaps she was giving him directions and he was ignoring them? The second that car stopped I think she bolted out of it and just ran. I don't care how drunk you are, if you think your life or safety is in danger you will run or at least try to! I don't think she had time to think of where she was going and if there's a big open space in front of you and a man masturbating behind you I know which direction I would run! He's chased her down into the park ending up close to the river, the rape may have only lasted mere seconds and in stifling her screams has rendered her unconscious. In that moment he panics, thinking he has killed her and she has his DNA inside her! So hurriedly drags/rolls her into the river and legs it back to the car. Goes home, has a bath to wash away DNA evidence, thinking about what he has just done and how hurriedly it all happened. Was she dead when he put her in the water? Did he leave any evidence behind? Would the police be looking for her already? He goes back out to check all of these things but just being there excites him all over again, he masturbates in the street then continues driving around...either looking for another poor victim or maybe to see if anyone was out looking for her? How many times during other missing persons cases has the perpetrator purposely injected themselves into the investigation or revisited the scene when police are there looking?

ALL MOO of course.

 

[Skigh]

Key questions answered as Pawel Relowicz accused of Libby murder

 

[sundaaaay]

Almost every park near a city is considered a dogging spot.

His first couple of versions had him state he had a wee.

To me it’s more likely he’d started to try it on/expose himself in the car, an alarmed Libby bolted into the park & he pursued her in an even greater state of sexual excitement.

EBM or what @mrazda71 said a few posts before

I'm with you on this one as this was his modus operandi and the park was her only escape route.

 

[Vera_dci]

if she wasnt screaming in the car or in the layby, then she must of either been willing but that been totally out of it hardky knowing what she was doing or...he had knocked her out...why wasnt she screaming in/around the car at the layby, if she was, surely this would of been easier to hear than the screams from the pond?? so its..er yeah..

In my opinion she got out and ran into the park as soon as the car stopped. I think hes Parked very close to the new bollards . In her fight or flight moment shes decided that running through the gate to the park is her best option ( I dont think she had a clue where she was in all honesty) The screams were when he caught up with her. I think he attacked her as the path opens up to the pond. I think he left her there dead. He went home and realised she would be found easily with his DNA on her. He returned to the park and put her in the river later on.

 

[Edinlass]

Well this thread is just getting silly now.

I think, as the poster above stated, she has jumped out the car ran away from him in the direction of the river and he’s caught up with her. Raped her, she’s jumped up again and started running and she’s fell in the water at which point she’s screaming (heard by witnesses) I think she was alive when she entered the water it’s the only rational explanation for the timings IMO.

Libby isn’t from Hull and for all we know had never visited that park in her life. That, scared and being intoxicated would have severely tampered with her bearings.

<modsnip>

 

[Corneileus]

thanks tha

Well this thread is just getting silly now.

I think, as the poster above stated, she has jumped out the car ran away from him in the direction of the river and he’s caught up with her. Raped her, she’s jumped up again and started running and she’s fell in the water at which point she’s screaming (heard by witnesses) I think she was alive when she entered the water it’s the only rational explanation for the timings IMO.

Libby isn’t from Hull and for all we know had never visited that park in her life. That, scared and being intoxicated would have severely tampered with her bearings.

<modsnip>

good comment to end the day on for me...but again, why wouldnt she of screamed near the park entrance - theres a house right there and houses in all other directions very close and all lit up...why not start screaming there? adios and

Good morning.

 

[Edinlass]

thanks tha

good comment to end the day on for me...but again, why wouldnt she of screamed near the park entrance - theres a house right there and houses in all other directions very close and all lit up...why not start screaming there? adios and

Good morning.

Too busy running I don’t know, we will never know why? What I do believe is she never had consensual sex with this creep.

 

[Edinlass]

thanks tha

good comment to end the day on for me...but again, why wouldnt she of screamed near the park entrance - theres a house right there and houses in all other directions very close and all lit up...why not start screaming there? adios and

Good morning.

It was 12 at night - who is to say the houses were lit up like Blackpool illuminations? All we have is the facts from court to work around. And for me my explanation above is the only rational in my head, I could be completely wrong. I don’t mind that either.

 

[HollyHunter9]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I think the reasons he took Libby there was because ~
• It was familiar to him ~ he had been there several times previously and drone searched it
• It was secluded
• There was no CCTV nearby to capture within the park itself

 

[cocomisty]

The trial was due to last four weeks but has moved faster than anticipated, with the defence expected to close their case this week.

Key questions answered as Pawel Relowicz accused of Libby murder