UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #22

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C.greek said:
Only PR's DNA was found and from the CCTV no other suspect was found. If that were the case the defence would have mentioned it.
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Not every murderer is a rapist. Some people get their kicks in other ways.

I know it is preposterous and completely unlikely but I suppose it can't be dismissed a possibility.
 
Steve2021 said:
Personally (on the limited reporting we've heard) I'm not sure I can attribute much weight to any of the witnesses timings for the screams. But I am more interested in the man seen by Sam Alford. If he isn't PW who the hell is he? If his appearance is nothing like PW I fear everyone in Hull has cause to be very worried.

If he was not PW, given this sighting was directly after the screams, does this not strongly suggest this man is responsible for poor Libby's death?

But if this is so do we not encounter a similarly tight time window to the 7.5 minutes available to PR only a few minutes earlier? After all, if PW is to be believed neither he nor Libby entered the park by the time he left at 12.19 am. So, in the maybe 10 minutes between 12.19 and the sighting of this man leaving the park is it conceivable Libby could have left Oak Road, somehow been attacked by him, gone through the park and been put in the river, and the man have time to cover the ground back from the river to Oak Road?

Alternatively of course PW is lying and he left Libby in the park, which would then provide a greater window for the random stranger to attack her, put her in the water etc. and make his way back to Oak Road. But if he has felt the need to lie why? What is he trying to hide?

Finally, I submit PW can hardly expect the jury to determine that telling them he didn't enter the park was a lie, and then apply this to his advantage by determining this then allows for the possibility of a random stranger to be responsible for Libby's death.

Anyone have any thoughts?
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The only thought I can offer, is that on the cctv footage shown to the jury taken from the private house on Oak Road... (I think it's Oak Road anyway)... as we see PR's car turn left onto the main road, having left Libby, a couple of seconds later another car also appears from the same road and turns right. This second car would have been behind PR's car.
 
tigerowl said:
Not every murderer is a rapist. Some people get their kicks in other ways.

I know it is preposterous and completely unlikely but I suppose it can't be dismissed a possibility.
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Has the defence brought this up as a possibility ? They are all aware of the available cctv footage. Nothing of this kind, ie another murderer, has been even suggested. All circumstantial and other evidence point to PR and only him as the perpetrator. I prefer to stick to the facts for now instead of adding another hypothetical person to the equation.
 
Winterbells said:
Yes, exactly. In the last moments of that footage, as PR's car disappears from our view, another car emerges from the same side road. I'm too dumb to understand if that's Beresford Ave, but if it is, that second car must have come from ORPF direction and could have been the bloke that Sam Alford saw. Not suggesting he's the reason Libby ended up in the river - not at all - but it could have been him heading to his car, as Sam Alford described.
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I might be being pedantic now, but I would imagine if there was any kind of link with that other car the police would have already interviewed the driver. JMO
 
C.greek said:
I might be being pedantic now, but I would imagine if there was any kind of link with that other car the police would have already interviewed the driver. JMO
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Oh, yes and I agree, but if Sam Alford was describing a different and innocent bloke, that might explain the clothing discrepancies (ie. tight jeans vs joggers, camo jacket vs bomber jacket) . Not that I think PR was wearing tight jeans and a bomber jacket - I'd describe him as wearing joggers; tapered from the knee down, with quite a loose side pocket that he put something into on spidercam and a fleece top, not a jacket at all.
My comments were basically just to respond to @Steve2021 's request for thoughts.
 
Winterbells said:
Oh, yes and I agree, but if Sam Alford was describing a different and innocent bloke, that might explain the clothing discrepancies (ie. tight jeans vs joggers, camo jacket vs bomber jacket) . Not that I think PR was wearing tight jeans and a bomber jacket - I'd describe him as wearing joggers; tapered from the knee down, with quite a loose side pocket that he put something into on spidercam and a fleece top, not a jacket at all.
My comments were basically just to respond to @Steve2021 's request for thoughts.
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Yes fair enough. But wouldn't that person have been found by now- and questioned?
 
HollyHunter9 said:
I don't believe he is a simple man at all. In fact, I think he is pretty clever and devious because until he was looked into by the police regarding Libby no one was even aware of his previous crimes some of which were pretty brazen! He repeatedly stalked and prowled on women, was out all times of the day and night, wanking in the street for all to see (what if his wife went out looking for him and saw him?), he left his DNA at most of the scenes. All of this went on for over 2 years without anyone even suspecting him, even his own wife? So I think it is highly likely there may be other rapes we are just not yet aware of, so progressing onto murder does not seem so much of a leap if for 2 years you have already been terrorising women. He thinks he is clever enough to try and adapt his behaviour to different situations to hide his true nature...loving husband to the wife, family man to the police & courts and I can only imagine to Libby he portrayed someone safe to take her home but in doing this he just keeps coming up with lie after lie and it is now all starting to unravel.
I don't think he was particularly worried about being caught by his wife or the police and if you are then were implicated in a rape/murder why no comment? Why repeatedly lie? Surely coming clean to your wife is a safer option than going down for a murder you didn't commit? I think he knew what he was doing was wrong but because he gotten away with it for so long he had become cocky and confident he wasn't going to get caught.
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Good post, PW’s is far more gutsy and calculating than he appears to be.
 
HollyHunter9 said:
I don't believe he is a simple man at all. In fact, I think he is pretty clever and devious because until he was looked into by the police regarding Libby no one was even aware of his previous crimes some of which were pretty brazen! He repeatedly stalked and prowled on women, was out all times of the day and night, wanking in the street for all to see (what if his wife went out looking for him and saw him?), he left his DNA at most of the scenes. All of this went on for over 2 years without anyone even suspecting him, even his own wife? So I think it is highly likely there may be other rapes we are just not yet aware of, so progressing onto murder does not seem so much of a leap if for 2 years you have already been terrorising women. He thinks he is clever enough to try and adapt his behaviour to different situations to hide his true nature...loving husband to the wife, family man to the police & courts and I can only imagine to Libby he portrayed someone safe to take her home but in doing this he just keeps coming up with lie after lie and it is now all starting to unravel.
I don't think he was particularly worried about being caught by his wife or the police and if you are then were implicated in a rape/murder why no comment? Why repeatedly lie? Surely coming clean to your wife is a safer option than going down for a murder you didn't commit? I think he knew what he was doing was wrong but because he gotten away with it for so long he had become cocky and confident he wasn't going to get caught.
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I agree. I don't think he's Einstein but he knows enough to lie and story 5 - the defence examination - was clever enough to add in embellishments from other witness statements. Clever enough not to admit to anything until presented with evidence

I'd add that I'm not sure what being a simple man would have to do with it anyway. A act of violence that results in death is the same act of evil whether you're clever enough to hide the body forever or thick enough to leave it.
 
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