Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest*

[Bluetooth]

Det Supt Andy Cribbin said the man pulling a wheelie bin in the CCTV was now a suspect, but he was "conscious there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for this footage".

This original statement from LE, infers that the bin has limited significance. Perhaps it was found at the crime scene, but was empty etc.

In my opinion, it's possible the suspect happened to be in the area (collecting scrap metal) and sees an opportunity to rob/mug (phone is missing). Somehow this robbery goes wrong and the murder takes place with both the body and wheelie bin being left at the cemetary.

 

[CharlestonGal]

This will be 6–12 months,especially with it being a juvenile offender

Thank you. That's much quicker than here.

 

[PoirotPink]

Can you tell me roughly how long it takes cases like this to get to trial in the UK? Here in the states it can take 1, 2, 3 years. TIA!

According to the Government's published statistics on timeliness: The average (mean) time, from the first listing (before a magistrate) to completion of the main hearing at the Crown Court, hovers between 160 days to 200 days.

 

[Kaykedi]

1. Far as I know, it has to be a different charge - they can't keep bringing someone in for 96 hours on the same one - so - as you say - if there is a significant development, that would then allow a different charge and away they go

must add here MOO and IMO just to cover myself in case one of our legal folk knows more

I reckon they have DNA evidence and maybe more CCTV evidence. But we wont find out for a long time unfortunately.

Det Supt Andy Cribbin said the man pulling a wheelie bin in the CCTV was now a suspect, but he was "conscious there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for this footage".

This original statement from LE, infers that the bin has limited significance. Perhaps it was found at the crime scene, but was empty etc.

In my opinion, it's possible the suspect happened to be in the area (collecting scrap metal) and sees an opportunity to rob/mug (phone is missing). Somehow this robbery goes wrong and the murder takes place with both the body and wheelie bin being left at the cemetary.

Thank you for your information Bluetooth. I live in Accrington and have been really worried about all the dodgy looking characters around here for ages. Very alarming if this is a stranger attack

 

[CharlestonGal]

According to the Government's published statistics on timeliness: The average (mean) time, from the first listing (before a magistrate) to completion of the main hearing at the Crown Court, hovers between 160 days to 200 days.

That's remarkable. You guys need to come over here and teach us how to do that.

 

[PoirotPink]

Det Supt Andy Cribbin said the man pulling a wheelie bin in the CCTV was now a suspect, but he was "conscious there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for this footage".

This original statement from LE, infers that the bin has limited significance. Perhaps it was found at the crime scene, but was empty etc.

In my opinion, it's possible the suspect happened to be in the area (collecting scrap metal) and sees an opportunity to rob/mug (phone is missing). Somehow this robbery goes wrong and the murder takes place with both the body and wheelie bin being left at the cemetary.

Interesting theory. I only came across this story today (yes, have been living under a rock) and my initial impression was also that it might have been an attempted robbery. Although I still can't get my head around how a 16 year old could end up committing murder in this way.

IMO, the detective's comment may just be a "disclaimer" that they have to put out there so that they can keep an open mind (and avoid confirmation bias) - especially, if their theory over how the murder was committed turns out to be wrong and they come across evidence to contradict their theory at a later date.

 

[PoirotPink]

That's remarkable. You guys need to come over here and teach us how to do that.

There's a book out at the moment called "The Secret Barrister" which highlights everything that is wrong with our criminal justice system. If you read that, you'd probably change your mind over how remarkable it is. LOL.

 

[Amonet]

Our DNA turnaround time in a murder enquiry is very efficient too. I could ‘fast track ‘ DNA evidence as the SIO and get a result within 24-48 hours. The only problem with this is the financial cost as each item tested will cost thousands instead of hundreds when being fast tracked therefore as the SIO, I would have to choose wisely and justify my submissions and the reasons for them.

So if there was DNA of a third party found in the post mortem, then they could theoretically have fast tracked one or two samples and got results back by the time the charges were brought?

That is something I was wondering about so I'm glad you have pre-empted my question!

 

[katydid23]

I am not totally surprised seeing a 16 yr old accused of this murder. Recent murders have shown similar young killers:

Update: A 16-year-old boy faces a life sentence after being found guilty of the “bestial” rape and murder of a six-year-old girl while she visited her grandparents on holiday.

The teenager took Alesha MacPhail from the bed where she was sleeping on the Isle of Bute on July 2 last year and inflicted horrific injuries before dumping her body in woodland.
Scottish teen's abduction, rape and killing of girl, 6, described by judge as 'wickedest, most evil' crime

A pair of 14-year-old boys have been convicted of murdering a schoolgirl of the same age in Dublin.

Ana Kriegel’s naked body was found with a ligature around the neck in a derelict house three days after she went missing on 14 May last year.
Two 14-year-old boys found guilty of killing schoolgirl in Dublin

A Dallas teenager who is suspected of murder and a string of rapes will stand trial as an adult.

After listening to extremely disturbing testimony about how the teenagers allegedly hunted his victims and then violently assaulted them and his plans to hurt others, the judge said she felt the adult system was the only suitable option.
Dallas 16-year-old accused of being serial rapist, murderer to be tried as adult

 

[Kaykedi]

Regarding Lindsay being killed, I've noticed that the police haven't said there's no danger to the wider community like they usually do

 

[Rosegold68]

I have wondered about this. We assume Lindsay to be an innocent target but what if something had been going on? He was the child ,she was the adult here
The murder charge and not manslaughter changed my view obviously but there is possibly more to this than a robbery.

And as for body storage, maybe his parents were sat on hol due home forcing him to remove the body

Just my own thoughts on this one

 

[Looloo]

Do we know if he lived at home with parents?sorry if already discussed, I have tried to keep upto date with this thread since it started but may have missed this info being discussed?

 

[Rosegold68]

No we know nothing about him at all

Male aged 16 is all

Not a far stretch to think he may live at home with parents, someone will be responsible for him

 

[Spender]

Do we know if he lived at home with parents?sorry if already discussed, I have tried to keep upto date with this thread since it started but may have missed this info being discussed?

Very little information has been released officially about the accused obviously for the reasons of trying to maintain his anonymity so I’m thinking we won’t get to know much background info for that reason alone.

 

[Spender]

I have wondered about this. We assume Lindsay to be an innocent target but what if something had been going on? He was the child ,she was the adult here
The murder charge and not manslaughter changed my view obviously but there is possibly more to this than a robbery.

And as for body storage, maybe his parents were sat on hol due home forcing him to remove the body

Just my own thoughts on this one

Just my own thoughts......do you think she may have been held against her own will for longer than the wheelie bin footage date (that being just another scrap yard visit as stated he was allegedly known for doing) and her life taken before she was discovered ? IMO it’s a long time for anyone let alone a 16 yr old to store a body and not to be acting odd for that time line ??

 

[nicjhis]

Based on the last cctv image of Lindsay (red dot) and the one of the boy dragging the bin (blue dot) and taking into account the direction they are both travelling in, it seems that something happened in the area in between. Plus the boy is walking down hill to access the side gate of the cemetery. There are a few houses but also some side tracks with lots of outbuildings.

 

[SpursGyal]

Based on the last cctv image of Lindsay (red dot) and the one of the boy dragging the bin (blue dot) and taking into account the direction they are both travelling in, it seems that something happened in the area in between. Plus the boy is walking down hill to access the side gate of the cemetery. There are a few houses but also some side tracks with lots of outbuildings.

The pub seems like the place, IMO. It’s close, it’s empty and there is a lot of well covered areas behind it.


The police did say that people should carry on their lives as usual.

 

[nicjhis]

I can’t believe she was just snatched off the street so I’ve got the impression she entered somewhere of her own accord. The pub would be likely and apparently was under new management in July.

 

[SpursGyal]

Just my own thoughts......do you think she may have been held against her own will for longer than the wheelie bin footage date (that being just another scrap yard visit as stated he was allegedly known for doing) and her life taken before she was discovered ? IMO it’s a long time for anyone let alone a 16 yr old to store a body and not to be acting odd for that time line ??

IMO, I think she was probably murdered very shortly after the CCTV footage we saw of her.
Where would a 16 year old keep a ‘hostage’.

 

[RachyMoo]

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