UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #2

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Sure :)
But Covid isolation rules seemed the same in every country.

Isolation means staying in the same place, not running around the town, no?

On paper, yes. But many people do as they please regardless.

During complete lockdown I would travel extensively on public transport at all hours & work in various locations. I was legally allowed to do so but not once was I questioned about this. Its even harder to track people who should be isolating; there's just not the resources to track people/know everyone's situation.
 
On paper, yes. But many people do as they please regardless.

During complete lockdown I would travel extensively on public transport at all hours & work in various locations. I was legally allowed to do so but not once was I questioned about this. Its even harder to track people who should be isolating; there's just not the resources to track people/know everyone's situation.
I understand.
But that was not the point of my answer to Kitkat poster :)
 
There are two factors to consider regarding the isolation guidelines:
1) Lots of people did not take any notice of the guidelines. :rolleyes:
2) You were not supposed to leave your home or have visitors, unless those visitors are there to provide essential care. Maybe they could have argued he was looking after AW due to her epilepsy.

Children were also allowed to travel between the homes of those with PR, so there’s also the baby. Although it would be JC doing the travelling.
MOO
 
Hi!
I am new here but I have been following this case. I have an almost 5 year old son and this case has left me heartbroken.

I wondered what everyone else thinks, but I find it strange neighbours claim they heard JC going bonkers and nobody called the police to alert that there was a domestic disturbance… perhaps they were so used to shouting and arguing they didn’t think anything of it?
 
I've been a very occasional lurker for a long time. This case finally prompted me to make an account. I lived in Logan's home town for several years and though I moved away, I didn't go very far.
I want to make it clear that I don't know anyone involved in this case at all. I also don't know anything about the case that isn't reported in MSM. Not for sure, and I wouldn't repeat anything anyway. Court orders are serious.

Anyway, I just wanted to share some thoughts I've had.

People have talked about lack of provision for disturbed/criminal children. There is a secure unit (Hillside, Neath) about twenty miles away which houses children convicted of serious crimes, and IIRC, children with extremely challenging behaviour who have no convictions. Local rumour had it that a high profile child offender was kept there. There are also children's homes specifically for foster kids with challenging behaviour (and those who frequently run away, exposing them to significant risk). I know this because teen me was constantly threatened with them by my social worker/foster carers. When I was a teen it was a locked unit.

Speaking as someone who was in the care system, from my own experiences and that of my fostered peers, I feel like when one parent is exceptionally abusive or neglectful, there's a tendency to put the good or less overtly bad parent on a pedestal. When a parent doesn't love you, you grow up feeling inherently unlovable so perhaps it's about the need to be loved. By someone, anyone. It is quite often almost desperate. When I was in care, I used to spend my pocket money on buying things for my parents. I guess I was trying to buy their love. I have no idea whether this is a recognised phenomenon or just anecdotal, but I've seen it happen far more than coincidence could explain. I wonder whether this is relevant within this family dynamic at all.

I get the impression Angharad's seizures were not epilepsy, having read between the lines when professionals referred to it. Would a trained nurse (the health visitor) really refer to seizures as 'convulsions'? Furthermore, according to history given, A started having 'convulsions' prior to the arrival of the new baby. I'm not saying that women with epilepsy can't be pregnant or have healthy pregnancies, but even mild occasional seizures can pose a risk to the unborn child, and the majority of anticonvulsant carry significant risk of birth defects to the unborn child. In addition, according to A&J, A's epilepsy is extremely severe and uncontrolled, to the extent that she had several 'convulsions' in a very short space of time. And yet, no professional was concerned about how this would impact upon her ability to parent two small children alone (according to neighbour, J was rarely present)? Hmm.

Anyone who's ever been around someone who has large seizures will be familiar with the post ictal state. For some time after the seizure is over, people tend to behave in ways that are not usual for them Disorientated, confused, exhausted, not very lucid, even combative. Yet in transcripts it seems like she's completely normal- even after several seizures within a short time space

If you look into it, I think it's very telling that these seizures happen when she's told Logan has died, when she's arrested etc. Heaven forfend that the news of Logan's death be about Logan. It's all about her and how things affect her. The fact she lobbed it into conversation apropos of nothing. Is it relevant? Is it necessary? Is it normal? No.

TL:DR, it very much seems to be the Angharad show. I will be interested to read the results of her mental health evaluation if she has one. It is my layperson suspicion that these 'convulsions' are psychogenic at best, fake and attention seeking at worst. To reiterate, I am not a trained medic and therefore not trying to diagnose her with anything. Nevertheless the testimonies of professionals working with the family seem to show a consistent pattern of red flags in terms of potential mental illness or personality disorder.

I'm sorry, I waffled. This case is really disturbing on so many levels and I've been desperate to talk to someone. If anyone has any questions about the local area or foster care system I would be happy to answer.

If I were someone given to praying, I would constantly pray that this beautiful little boy gets justice. Over and above that, I think the boy in particular poses a risk to others and his behaviour is escalating. He needs to go to prison. If not forever, then for as long as it takes for him to no longer provide a risk. I hope he gets therapy- for however long it takes
 
Hi!
I am new here but I have been following this case. I have an almost 5 year old son and this case has left me heartbroken.

I wondered what everyone else thinks, but I find it strange neighbours claim they heard JC going bonkers and nobody called the police to alert that there was a domestic disturbance… perhaps they were so used to shouting and arguing they didn’t think anything of it?

Various reasons could be:

- It happened so frequently that everyone gave up taking notice;
- Previously no one had actually been murdered;
- The police are widely disliked by many people;
- The police can be absolutely derelict in duty;
- People didn't want to risk becoming targeted by the couple;
- People may have been so fed up they didn't actually care much if one adult killed the other;
- People genuinely didn't think a child was going to be harmed or die or they'd have acted differently;

'Baldy's losing it again' or whatever the text was... would imply a) 'Baldy' is widely disliked and mocked; b) Baldy 'loses it' frequently!
 
I've been a very occasional lurker for a long time. This case finally prompted me to make an account. I lived in Logan's home town for several years and though I moved away, I didn't go very far.
I want to make it clear that I don't know anyone involved in this case at all. I also don't know anything about the case that isn't reported in MSM. Not for sure, and I wouldn't repeat anything anyway. Court orders are serious.

Anyway, I just wanted to share some thoughts I've had.

People have talked about lack of provision for disturbed/criminal children. There is a secure unit (Hillside, Neath) about twenty miles away which houses children convicted of serious crimes, and IIRC, children with extremely challenging behaviour who have no convictions. Local rumour had it that a high profile child offender was kept there. There are also children's homes specifically for foster kids with challenging behaviour (and those who frequently run away, exposing them to significant risk). I know this because teen me was constantly threatened with them by my social worker/foster carers. When I was a teen it was a locked unit.

Speaking as someone who was in the care system, from my own experiences and that of my fostered peers, I feel like when one parent is exceptionally abusive or neglectful, there's a tendency to put the good or less overtly bad parent on a pedestal. When a parent doesn't love you, you grow up feeling inherently unlovable so perhaps it's about the need to be loved. By someone, anyone. It is quite often almost desperate. When I was in care, I used to spend my pocket money on buying things for my parents. I guess I was trying to buy their love. I have no idea whether this is a recognised phenomenon or just anecdotal, but I've seen it happen far more than coincidence could explain. I wonder whether this is relevant within this family dynamic at all.

I get the impression Angharad's seizures were not epilepsy, having read between the lines when professionals referred to it. Would a trained nurse (the health visitor) really refer to seizures as 'convulsions'? Furthermore, according to history given, A started having 'convulsions' prior to the arrival of the new baby. I'm not saying that women with epilepsy can't be pregnant or have healthy pregnancies, but even mild occasional seizures can pose a risk to the unborn child, and the majority of anticonvulsant carry significant risk of birth defects to the unborn child. In addition, according to A&J, A's epilepsy is extremely severe and uncontrolled, to the extent that she had several 'convulsions' in a very short space of time. And yet, no professional was concerned about how this would impact upon her ability to parent two small children alone (according to neighbour, J was rarely present)? Hmm.

Anyone who's ever been around someone who has large seizures will be familiar with the post ictal state. For some time after the seizure is over, people tend to behave in ways that are not usual for them Disorientated, confused, exhausted, not very lucid, even combative. Yet in transcripts it seems like she's completely normal- even after several seizures within a short time space

If you look into it, I think it's very telling that these seizures happen when she's told Logan has died, when she's arrested etc. Heaven forfend that the news of Logan's death be about Logan. It's all about her and how things affect her. The fact she lobbed it into conversation apropos of nothing. Is it relevant? Is it necessary? Is it normal? No.

TL:DR, it very much seems to be the Angharad show. I will be interested to read the results of her mental health evaluation if she has one. It is my layperson suspicion that these 'convulsions' are psychogenic at best, fake and attention seeking at worst. To reiterate, I am not a trained medic and therefore not trying to diagnose her with anything. Nevertheless the testimonies of professionals working with the family seem to show a consistent pattern of red flags in terms of potential mental illness or personality disorder.

I'm sorry, I waffled. This case is really disturbing on so many levels and I've been desperate to talk to someone. If anyone has any questions about the local area or foster care system I would be happy to answer.

If I were someone given to praying, I would constantly pray that this beautiful little boy gets justice. Over and above that, I think the boy in particular poses a risk to others and his behaviour is escalating. He needs to go to prison. If not forever, then for as long as it takes for him to no longer provide a risk. I hope he gets therapy- for however long it takes
I've been a very occasional lurker for a long time. This case finally prompted me to make an account. I lived in Logan's home town for several years and though I moved away, I didn't go very far.
I want to make it clear that I don't know anyone involved in this case at all. I also don't know anything about the case that isn't reported in MSM. Not for sure, and I wouldn't repeat anything anyway. Court orders are serious.

Anyway, I just wanted to share some thoughts I've had.

People have talked about lack of provision for disturbed/criminal children. There is a secure unit (Hillside, Neath) about twenty miles away which houses children convicted of serious crimes, and IIRC, children with extremely challenging behaviour who have no convictions. Local rumour had it that a high profile child offender was kept there. There are also children's homes specifically for foster kids with challenging behaviour (and those who frequently run away, exposing them to significant risk). I know this because teen me was constantly threatened with them by my social worker/foster carers. When I was a teen it was a locked unit.

Speaking as someone who was in the care system, from my own experiences and that of my fostered peers, I feel like when one parent is exceptionally abusive or neglectful, there's a tendency to put the good or less overtly bad parent on a pedestal. When a parent doesn't love you, you grow up feeling inherently unlovable so perhaps it's about the need to be loved. By someone, anyone. It is quite often almost desperate. When I was in care, I used to spend my pocket money on buying things for my parents. I guess I was trying to buy their love. I have no idea whether this is a recognised phenomenon or just anecdotal, but I've seen it happen far more than coincidence could explain. I wonder whether this is relevant within this family dynamic at all.

I get the impression Angharad's seizures were not epilepsy, having read between the lines when professionals referred to it. Would a trained nurse (the health visitor) really refer to seizures as 'convulsions'? Furthermore, according to history given, A started having 'convulsions' prior to the arrival of the new baby. I'm not saying that women with epilepsy can't be pregnant or have healthy pregnancies, but even mild occasional seizures can pose a risk to the unborn child, and the majority of anticonvulsant carry significant risk of birth defects to the unborn child. In addition, according to A&J, A's epilepsy is extremely severe and uncontrolled, to the extent that she had several 'convulsions' in a very short space of time. And yet, no professional was concerned about how this would impact upon her ability to parent two small children alone (according to neighbour, J was rarely present)? Hmm.

Anyone who's ever been around someone who has large seizures will be familiar with the post ictal state. For some time after the seizure is over, people tend to behave in ways that are not usual for them Disorientated, confused, exhausted, not very lucid, even combative. Yet in transcripts it seems like she's completely normal- even after several seizures within a short time space

If you look into it, I think it's very telling that these seizures happen when she's told Logan has died, when she's arrested etc. Heaven forfend that the news of Logan's death be about Logan. It's all about her and how things affect her. The fact she lobbed it into conversation apropos of nothing. Is it relevant? Is it necessary? Is it normal? No.

TL:DR, it very much seems to be the Angharad show. I will be interested to read the results of her mental health evaluation if she has one. It is my layperson suspicion that these 'convulsions' are psychogenic at best, fake and attention seeking at worst. To reiterate, I am not a trained medic and therefore not trying to diagnose her with anything. Nevertheless the testimonies of professionals working with the family seem to show a consistent pattern of red flags in terms of potential mental illness or personality disorder.

I'm sorry, I waffled. This case is really disturbing on so many levels and I've been desperate to talk to someone. If anyone has any questions about the local area or foster care system I would be happy to answer.

If I were someone given to praying, I would constantly pray that this beautiful little boy gets justice. Over and above that, I think the boy in particular poses a risk to others and his behaviour is escalating. He needs to go to prison. If not forever, then for as long as it takes for him to no longer provide a risk. I hope he gets therapy- for however long it takes

Agree with your sentiments. Nobody seemed too worried about these 'fits' of AW.

Since it is the AW circus show, I imagine as soon as she realises she's not getting her baby back, not walking free, and not getting her bloke back... she'll launch a vicious campaign against, most likely, the Youth, possibly JC. We may be lucky enough to see this happen during the court proceedings. I say 'lucky' as it would serve the purpose of justice for little Logan.
 
Various reasons could be:

- It happened so frequently that everyone gave up taking notice;
- Previously no one had actually been murdered;
- The police are widely disliked by many people;
- The police can be absolutely derelict in duty;
- People didn't want to risk becoming targeted by the couple;
- People may have been so fed up they didn't actually care much if one adult killed the other;
- People genuinely didn't think a child was going to be harmed or die or they'd have acted differently;

'Baldy's losing it again' or whatever the text was... would imply a) 'Baldy' is widely disliked and mocked; b) Baldy 'loses it' frequently!
All this plus
-has phoned so many times and been ignored/nothing has been done that they’ve given up

Parents are, apparently, allowed to shout, scream, f and blind at their children with impunity. Eventually, as much as you might care, if they’re not actually hitting them what can you do?
 
All this plus
-has phoned so many times and been ignored/nothing has been done that they’ve given up

Parents are, apparently, allowed to shout, scream, f and blind at their children with impunity. Eventually, as much as you might care, if they’re not actually hitting them what can you do?

Or even if they are, apparently. :(
 
Can we go back a little to the videos AW watched on the 29th. I will link them across and a corresponding news article for each. I know the prosecution believe Logan was assaulted on the 30th. AW said there was an assault on 29th. I can’t help but feel the planning started from watching these videos, Logan was still alive at this point.

1) Kidnapped 4yo Rebecca Lewis:
Rebecca Lewis found in Memphis after 5-state manhunt

2) Utah babysitter - shaken baby:
Utah babysitter to spend up to 5 years in prison for abusing infant

3) Missing toddler:
Missing 2-year-old found in NE Portland; search dog credited

Also these videos are completely at odds with AWs spot popping and other gross watching.
 
I hope this goes some way to protect future children, although too late for Logan :(

Smacking children in Wales becomes illegal

Parents smacking their children will be illegal in Wales from Monday.

It is already illegal in Scotland.

To be fair, I knew a girl who was taken into care twentyish years ago because her mother slapped her in front of a professional. The way I see it is not that smacking was previously ok, but more that it was a bit of a grey area, legally speaking. Definitely seen as a red flag, but unfortunately couldn't be considered conclusive in terms of reasons for SS involvement. Socially, and morally, I can assure you that most Welsh people of my generation would not consider smacking anything other than child abuse, irrespective of the law.
 
I hope this goes some way to protect future children, although too late for Logan :(

Smacking children in Wales becomes illegal

Parents smacking their children will be illegal in Wales from Monday.

It is already illegal in Scotland.
Now if England could just follow suit that would be great.

The law as it currently stands allows smacking that could be considered a reasonable punishment, but it’s illegal if it leaves marks/bruises.
 
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

The trial resumes
The first witness to give evidence today is pathologist Dr John Williams.

Prosecutor Caroline Rees QC says the jury may hear evidence that is “difficult to listen to” but all diagrams of Logan’s body are computer generated to prevent distress.

He was told Logan had been found in the River Ogmore on his right side with his nose and right side of his face submerged in water. He was wearing pyjamas but no shoes.

There was no significant underlying past medical history.

He was told on August 16, 2020, Logan suffered a fractured left humerus after the hospital was told he had fallen down the stairs.
 
Logan was just three-feet five inches tall and weighed three stone
Dr Williams performed a post-mortem examination on Logan on August 1, 2021, the day after his body was found.

Logan measured 1.08 metres (three feet five inches) and weighed 20kg (three stone and one pound) He had a BMI if 17.1kg per square metre.

There was mud staining on his back, hands and feet including his soles and occasional blades of grass.

Clothing was wet and included black Spiderman pyjama top with faecal staining to the bottom.

Hypostasis was present on the back of the body and rigor mortis to the limbs

Logan’s hair was short and brown.


Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
 
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates


Logan's body had 56 separate injuries
The court hears there were 56 external injuries found on Logan’s body in total.

On the head and neck, there were the following injuries:

  1. Lateral to the left eye and upper aspect of left cheek (drying of the skin) and just above this a pink bruise

  2. Left of orbital ridge and left side of forehead pink bruising

  3. Left upper forehead pink bruise

  4. Mid line of forehead pink bruise and a faint grey bruise

  5. Lateral to right eye, a curved red bruise and a vertical red bruise

  6. Upper aspect of right cheek pink bruise

  7. Left side of upper lip, a vertical scratch

  8. Left side of neck, below the lower insertion of left ear pink bruise

  9. Mid part of the left jawline a grey bruise

  10. In front of the right angle of the jaw a pink bruise

  11. Mid part of right jawline pink bruise

  12. Under side of left side of chin pink bruise and below this a grey bruise

  13. To right of mid line on upper part of front of neck pink bruise

  14. Right of mid line on back of neck faint abrasion
 
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/logan-mwangi-murder-trial-due-2316404


Logan's body was badly bruised
The injuries to Logan's trunk included

  1. Top of left shoulder pink bruise

  2. Upper inner aspect left side of front of chest pink bruise and a brown bruise

  3. Front of left costal margin pink bruise

  4. Left of mid line front of lower chest pink bruise

  5. Mid line of upper abdomen vertical healing scratch

  6. Right side of upper abdomen vertical scratch and a further scratch

  7. Below right costal margin pink bruise

  8. Possible faint bruising involving belly button

  9. Right side of front of abdomen three faint pink bruises

  10. Right lower quadrant of abdomen pink/grey bruising and a faint pink/grey bruise

  11. Right groin grey bruise

  12. Left side of front of lower abdomen faint pink bruise and another faint pink bruise

  13. Super pubic region splotchy pink/grey bruising

  14. Right side of mid part of back faint abrasion

  15. Posterior aspect back of left flank pink bruising
 
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