UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #2
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Bluedaisy100
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Does anyone think the miscreants will testify on their own behalf? In the US this seldom happens, but it seems more frequent in the UK. In AW's case because of her attention seeking behavior, I'd think she'd want to testify.
I feel the same way with her seizures I have a family member that has non epileptic seizures she has a mental health condition called disossstive seizures, they are caused by pain stress , she has is always having them some can be over with in less than a minuet some can be for nearly half hour , in my mind when she had the seizures when told about Logan is it because stress and guilt brought it on or is it realy epelepcy sorry for my spellingsI've been a very occasional lurker for a long time. This case finally prompted me to make an account. I lived in Logan's home town for several years and though I moved away, I didn't go very far.
I want to make it clear that I don't know anyone involved in this case at all. I also don't know anything about the case that isn't reported in MSM. Not for sure, and I wouldn't repeat anything anyway. Court orders are serious.
Anyway, I just wanted to share some thoughts I've had.
People have talked about lack of provision for disturbed/criminal children. There is a secure unit (Hillside, Neath) about twenty miles away which houses children convicted of serious crimes, and IIRC, children with extremely challenging behaviour who have no convictions. Local rumour had it that a high profile child offender was kept there. There are also children's homes specifically for foster kids with challenging behaviour (and those who frequently run away, exposing them to significant risk). I know this because teen me was constantly threatened with them by my social worker/foster carers. When I was a teen it was a locked unit.
Speaking as someone who was in the care system, from my own experiences and that of my fostered peers, I feel like when one parent is exceptionally abusive or neglectful, there's a tendency to put the good or less overtly bad parent on a pedestal. When a parent doesn't love you, you grow up feeling inherently unlovable so perhaps it's about the need to be loved. By someone, anyone. It is quite often almost desperate. When I was in care, I used to spend my pocket money on buying things for my parents. I guess I was trying to buy their love. I have no idea whether this is a recognised phenomenon or just anecdotal, but I've seen it happen far more than coincidence could explain. I wonder whether this is relevant within this family dynamic at all.
I get the impression Angharad's seizures were not epilepsy, having read between the lines when professionals referred to it. Would a trained nurse (the health visitor) really refer to seizures as 'convulsions'? Furthermore, according to history given, A started having 'convulsions' prior to the arrival of the new baby. I'm not saying that women with epilepsy can't be pregnant or have healthy pregnancies, but even mild occasional seizures can pose a risk to the unborn child, and the majority of anticonvulsant carry significant risk of birth defects to the unborn child. In addition, according to A&J, A's epilepsy is extremely severe and uncontrolled, to the extent that she had several 'convulsions' in a very short space of time. And yet, no professional was concerned about how this would impact upon her ability to parent two small children alone (according to neighbour, J was rarely present)? Hmm.
Anyone who's ever been around someone who has large seizures will be familiar with the post ictal state. For some time after the seizure is over, people tend to behave in ways that are not usual for them Disorientated, confused, exhausted, not very lucid, even combative. Yet in transcripts it seems like she's completely normal- even after several seizures within a short time space
If you look into it, I think it's very telling that these seizures happen when she's told Logan has died, when she's arrested etc. Heaven forfend that the news of Logan's death be about Logan. It's all about her and how things affect her. The fact she lobbed it into conversation apropos of nothing. Is it relevant? Is it necessary? Is it normal? No.
TLR, it very much seems to be the Angharad show. I will be interested to read the results of her mental health evaluation if she has one. It is my layperson suspicion that these 'convulsions' are psychogenic at best, fake and attention seeking at worst. To reiterate, I am not a trained medic and therefore not trying to diagnose her with anything. Nevertheless the testimonies of professionals working with the family seem to show a consistent pattern of red flags in terms of potential mental illness or personality disorder.
I'm sorry, I waffled. This case is really disturbing on so many levels and I've been desperate to talk to someone. If anyone has any questions about the local area or foster care system I would be happy to answer.
If I were someone given to praying, I would constantly pray that this beautiful little boy gets justice. Over and above that, I think the boy in particular poses a risk to others and his behaviour is escalating. He needs to go to prison. If not forever, then for as long as it takes for him to no longer provide a risk. I hope he gets therapy- for however long it takes
SpursGyal
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Cross examination for Williamson
The trial resumes.
Peter Rouch QC, for Angharad Williamson, cross examines pathologist Dr John Williams
He puts it to the doctor that Logan was taken to follow up appointments at hospital after fracturing his shoulder.
Dr Williams confirmed this was the case.
In reference to the injury to Logan’s clavicle, Mr Rouch asked: “Is it possible to give us a bracket when the injury could have been sustained?”
Dr Williams said: “No.”
Turning to the abdominal injuries, Mr Rouch said: “To cause those sorts of injuries it required some force.”
Dr Williams said: “Yes.”
Mr Rouch said: “They’re non accidental so they mean deliberate blows of a severe nature.”
Dr Williams said: “Yes.”
Mr Rouch said: “A punch or punches, a kick or kicks.”
Dr Williams said: “Yes.”
Mr Rouch said: “Would that include martial arts kicks?”
Dr Williams said: “It’s possible.”
Mr Rouch said: “Was there more than one blow?”
Dr Williams said: “Potentially.”
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
The trial resumes.
Peter Rouch QC, for Angharad Williamson, cross examines pathologist Dr John Williams
He puts it to the doctor that Logan was taken to follow up appointments at hospital after fracturing his shoulder.
Dr Williams confirmed this was the case.
In reference to the injury to Logan’s clavicle, Mr Rouch asked: “Is it possible to give us a bracket when the injury could have been sustained?”
Dr Williams said: “No.”
Turning to the abdominal injuries, Mr Rouch said: “To cause those sorts of injuries it required some force.”
Dr Williams said: “Yes.”
Mr Rouch said: “They’re non accidental so they mean deliberate blows of a severe nature.”
Dr Williams said: “Yes.”
Mr Rouch said: “A punch or punches, a kick or kicks.”
Dr Williams said: “Yes.”
Mr Rouch said: “Would that include martial arts kicks?”
Dr Williams said: “It’s possible.”
Mr Rouch said: “Was there more than one blow?”
Dr Williams said: “Potentially.”
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
SpursGyal
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Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
'Very broad time frame'
Continuing his line of questions, Mr Rouch asks if the injuries to the back of Logan’s hand could have been caused by a stamp?
Dr Williams said: “Potentially.”
Turning to the brain injuries, Mr Rouch asked if the older brain injury could have been caused between 36 and 48 hours.
Dr Williams said: “At least.”
Mr Rouch said: “Was that injury fatal?
Dr Williams said: “No.”
The court heard the fatal brain and abdominal injuries were caused “hours before death”.
Dr Williams said he was unable to date the external bruises on Logan’s body, except for a “very broad time frame”.
Mr Rouch finishes his questioning.
'Very broad time frame'
Continuing his line of questions, Mr Rouch asks if the injuries to the back of Logan’s hand could have been caused by a stamp?
Dr Williams said: “Potentially.”
Turning to the brain injuries, Mr Rouch asked if the older brain injury could have been caused between 36 and 48 hours.
Dr Williams said: “At least.”
Mr Rouch said: “Was that injury fatal?
Dr Williams said: “No.”
The court heard the fatal brain and abdominal injuries were caused “hours before death”.
Dr Williams said he was unable to date the external bruises on Logan’s body, except for a “very broad time frame”.
Mr Rouch finishes his questioning.
SpursGyal
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Cross examination from John Hipkin QC
John Hipkin QC, for the youth defendant, cross examines Dr Williams.
He refers to the fractured humerus injury for which Logan was taken to hospital in August 2020.
Mr Hipkin said: “There was no hospital visit in relation to the fractured clavicle?”
Dr Williams said: “No.”
Mr Hipkin said: “That fracture was several weeks old and what you found was there was sign of malunion.”
Dr Williams said: “Yes, the fractured bones aren’t quite knitting together.”
Mr Hipkin said: “For a clinical doctor, that would be an important aspect to get the bones knitting back together. But a clinical doctor wasn’t given a chance to look at it.”
Dr Williams said: “No.”
Mr Hipkin said: “A fractured clavicle would mean two things in life. Pain and secondly lack of mobility.”
Dr Williams said: “Yes.”
The witness has finished his evidence.
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
John Hipkin QC, for the youth defendant, cross examines Dr Williams.
He refers to the fractured humerus injury for which Logan was taken to hospital in August 2020.
Mr Hipkin said: “There was no hospital visit in relation to the fractured clavicle?”
Dr Williams said: “No.”
Mr Hipkin said: “That fracture was several weeks old and what you found was there was sign of malunion.”
Dr Williams said: “Yes, the fractured bones aren’t quite knitting together.”
Mr Hipkin said: “For a clinical doctor, that would be an important aspect to get the bones knitting back together. But a clinical doctor wasn’t given a chance to look at it.”
Dr Williams said: “No.”
Mr Hipkin said: “A fractured clavicle would mean two things in life. Pain and secondly lack of mobility.”
Dr Williams said: “Yes.”
The witness has finished his evidence.
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
SpursGyal
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Neuropathologist Dr George Lammie gives evidence
The next witness to give evidence is neuropathologist Dr George Lammie.
He conducted an examination of Logan’s brain and initially looked to see if there was bleeding outside of the brain, but there was no obvious bleeding externally.
There was evidence of a subdural haemorrhage.
Dr Lammie said Logan’s brain appeared significantly swollen and there was bleeding in the subarachnoid space, but it was of a small quantity. The doctor said this would have been a consequence of trauma
He said: “There clearly had been impact in this case.”
An examination was also carried out on the inside of the brain.
Dr Lammie said: “There was evidence the brain had significantly swollen#.”
When the doctor conducted his microscopic examination, he saw evidence of subdural bleeding and bleeding in the dura as a result of trauma before death.
There was also significant bleeding in certain membranes.
There was an altered appearance to neurons which appeared “darken and shrunken”
Dr Lammie said if there is significant trauma, this would lead to a hypoxic ischemic injury due to lack of blood and oxygen which lead to swelling to the brain.
He said: “There is also the possibility here that blood less elsewhere, the abdomen in this case, with a fall in blood pressure would have an effect on the brain.”
The witness also described Logan suffering axonal injuries, caused by “rapid acceleration and deceleration of a moving brain” such as a road traffic accidents or a fall from a considerable height or assaults.
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
The next witness to give evidence is neuropathologist Dr George Lammie.
He conducted an examination of Logan’s brain and initially looked to see if there was bleeding outside of the brain, but there was no obvious bleeding externally.
There was evidence of a subdural haemorrhage.
Dr Lammie said Logan’s brain appeared significantly swollen and there was bleeding in the subarachnoid space, but it was of a small quantity. The doctor said this would have been a consequence of trauma
He said: “There clearly had been impact in this case.”
An examination was also carried out on the inside of the brain.
Dr Lammie said: “There was evidence the brain had significantly swollen#.”
When the doctor conducted his microscopic examination, he saw evidence of subdural bleeding and bleeding in the dura as a result of trauma before death.
There was also significant bleeding in certain membranes.
There was an altered appearance to neurons which appeared “darken and shrunken”
Dr Lammie said if there is significant trauma, this would lead to a hypoxic ischemic injury due to lack of blood and oxygen which lead to swelling to the brain.
He said: “There is also the possibility here that blood less elsewhere, the abdomen in this case, with a fall in blood pressure would have an effect on the brain.”
The witness also described Logan suffering axonal injuries, caused by “rapid acceleration and deceleration of a moving brain” such as a road traffic accidents or a fall from a considerable height or assaults.
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
SpursGyal
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Swelling to the brain
Dr Lammie said significant swelling to the brain could result in a headache, vomiting, nausea, confusion before potentially leading to the sufferer falling into a coma and death.
He said bleeding around the brain was likely to have been caused by significant trauma during life and correlated with scalp and skull injuries found in the post mortem.
In reference to the hypoxic ischemic brain injury, Dr Lammie said a pathologist could only detect such injury if an individual survived at least four to six hours after sustaining it.
Ms Rees said: “Could that have been longer?”
The doctor said: “Yes…. at least several hours would be my summary judgement.”
In reference to axonal injuries, Dr Lammie said a pathologist would not be able to pick them up unless an individual had survived at least one-and-a-half and two hours after injury.
Ms Rees said: “Could that be longer?”
The witness said: “Potentially.”
The doctor also said he believed there was the possibility of the brain suffering “more than one trauma”.
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
Dr Lammie said significant swelling to the brain could result in a headache, vomiting, nausea, confusion before potentially leading to the sufferer falling into a coma and death.
He said bleeding around the brain was likely to have been caused by significant trauma during life and correlated with scalp and skull injuries found in the post mortem.
In reference to the hypoxic ischemic brain injury, Dr Lammie said a pathologist could only detect such injury if an individual survived at least four to six hours after sustaining it.
Ms Rees said: “Could that have been longer?”
The doctor said: “Yes…. at least several hours would be my summary judgement.”
In reference to axonal injuries, Dr Lammie said a pathologist would not be able to pick them up unless an individual had survived at least one-and-a-half and two hours after injury.
Ms Rees said: “Could that be longer?”
The witness said: “Potentially.”
The doctor also said he believed there was the possibility of the brain suffering “more than one trauma”.
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
SpursGyal
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Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
Dr Lammie's conclusion
In conclusion, Dr Lammie said Logan’s brain was significantly swollen, showed evidence of recent traumatic damage and damage from lack of blood and oxygen.
The traumatic damage was in the form of bleeding around the brain and damage to axons usually caused by the abrupt stopping of a moving head.
The doctor said he cannot tell whether the brain injuries occurred before or after the abdominal injury and is not sure of the immediate cause of death, whether it was the brain swelling or the blood loss from the abdominal injury.
Ms Rees said: “There appears to be a significant period of survival after injury to the head and damage to the brain… The length of survival period is difficult to estimate but is at least several hours and there is evidence of more than one brain injury.”
Dr Lammie agreed with the statement.
The court adjourns for a short break.
Dr Lammie's conclusion
In conclusion, Dr Lammie said Logan’s brain was significantly swollen, showed evidence of recent traumatic damage and damage from lack of blood and oxygen.
The traumatic damage was in the form of bleeding around the brain and damage to axons usually caused by the abrupt stopping of a moving head.
The doctor said he cannot tell whether the brain injuries occurred before or after the abdominal injury and is not sure of the immediate cause of death, whether it was the brain swelling or the blood loss from the abdominal injury.
Ms Rees said: “There appears to be a significant period of survival after injury to the head and damage to the brain… The length of survival period is difficult to estimate but is at least several hours and there is evidence of more than one brain injury.”
Dr Lammie agreed with the statement.
The court adjourns for a short break.
Sooty
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I think they are sometimes just blowing smoke around too.
HongKongPhooey
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Ironically, the end result will hopefully be the same thing I.e. all three guilty. He blames her, blames him, blames him, if you see what I mean.
Three evil idiots, catching each other out and themselves into the bargain
Bluedaisy100
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What kind of punishment/rehabilitation is possible for a 14 yr old offender? Aaron Campbell, the Isle of Bute murderer of Alesha MacPhail, got a reduced sentence of 24 years, I believe. If he's in a youth facility, I don't know. Is it possible that the youth is released when he's 18 (assuming conviction)? But in this particular case, there were 2 supposed adults that set up an environment of punishment during lockdown in which the child had no access to other adults who could have mitigated the situation. Speaking of adults, what about Linda Williams (LW), the social worker who should bear some responsibility for creating this witch's brew of violence. Placing a highly disturbed and violent youth offender with an ex-con with vulnerable young children, seems criminal.
SpursGyal
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'In theory'
The trial resumes.
David Elias QC, for Cole, cross examines Dr Lammie.
He questions the doctor on the period of time Logan survived after suffering injuries to his brain.
Dr Lammie maintains he believed the period Logan would have survived was up to several hours.
Peter Rouch QC, for Williamson, asks if the period of survival could have been days?
Dr Lammie said it could “in theory”.
He also asked if the earlier brain injury could have been fatal
The witness said: “It’s less likely to have been as it’s remote from death.”
John Hipkin QC, for the youth, says the evidence suggests there was trauma “one or two hours” before Logan’s death. Dr Lammie agrees.
The witness has finished his evidence.
The trial adjourns for the day and will resume at 10.15am tomorrow
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
The trial resumes.
David Elias QC, for Cole, cross examines Dr Lammie.
He questions the doctor on the period of time Logan survived after suffering injuries to his brain.
Dr Lammie maintains he believed the period Logan would have survived was up to several hours.
Peter Rouch QC, for Williamson, asks if the period of survival could have been days?
Dr Lammie said it could “in theory”.
He also asked if the earlier brain injury could have been fatal
The witness said: “It’s less likely to have been as it’s remote from death.”
John Hipkin QC, for the youth, says the evidence suggests there was trauma “one or two hours” before Logan’s death. Dr Lammie agrees.
The witness has finished his evidence.
The trial adjourns for the day and will resume at 10.15am tomorrow
Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates
Bluedaisy100
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From the evidence we've heard so far: Logan was attacked on July 29th (or earlier) by the youth. AW was recorded arguing with him in front of the convenience store. The social worker comes to the house with food packets on the 30th, but doesn't see Logan. No mention is made to her of any problems with Logan. We don't know of any activity on the 31st, except for curtain movements and lights on and off. According to the medical testimony, he had sustained at least 2 previous injuries that were in the process of healing. But the final blows that caused his death were sometime later on the 31st, because the brain trauma would have caused his death within hours. I'm inferring that he was injured several times, but especially on the 29th in which no medical assistance was sought. But the final blows causing death were on the 31st. If this is correct, and please correct me if I misstated anything, how could this be anything but intentional? You could make an argument that with one attack the adults didn't anticipate it. But with several previous attacks and a final fatal one, there's no way the adults are not culpable.
Nemonemonemo
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More disparate thoughts:
Some things you can never unread. The evidence from the pathologist is most definitely something that'll stay with me. I don't have words.
Do different coloured bruises mean they occurred at different times? Or could it be explained by varying degrees of severity? I've no idea.
I was surprised to learn that legal defence teams generally tell clients on trial *not* to show emotion. Since this can be seen as a negative by juries. And yet A is (my own word) nothing short of histrionic. Interesting. I wonder if this is behaviour that has worked for her in the past. I absolutely will not consider that it is genuine. I absolutely will not consider that she didn't both know this was happening, and allow it to happen. I kept an open mind, but what we know this far... absolutely not.
Some things you can never unread. The evidence from the pathologist is most definitely something that'll stay with me. I don't have words.
Do different coloured bruises mean they occurred at different times? Or could it be explained by varying degrees of severity? I've no idea.
I was surprised to learn that legal defence teams generally tell clients on trial *not* to show emotion. Since this can be seen as a negative by juries. And yet A is (my own word) nothing short of histrionic. Interesting. I wonder if this is behaviour that has worked for her in the past. I absolutely will not consider that it is genuine. I absolutely will not consider that she didn't both know this was happening, and allow it to happen. I kept an open mind, but what we know this far... absolutely not.
SpursGyal
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Todays evidence has left me feeling sick to the pit of my stomach. That poor, little innocent boy, spent his last days and hours in agony, scared and abused by the people who were meant to protect him.
Time and time again the system lets these children down. ‘Lessons will be learned’ but never are, nobody ever faces action, public uproar, then the next child is let down.
Time and time again the system lets these children down. ‘Lessons will be learned’ but never are, nobody ever faces action, public uproar, then the next child is let down.
Sooty
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