UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #4

[Moll]

I should of course add links to the profiles of the defending QCs. They are so important to the prosecution of the defendants they aren't defending that a journalist the other day got mixed up and described one of them as being a prosecutor.
John Hipkin Q.C.
(for the youth)
Peter Rouch QC
https://www.apexchambers.net/peter-rouch-qc
for Angharad Williamson)
and David Elias QC
9 Park Place
(for John Coles)

 

[Jay_Tec]

But in terms of this case, the contrary is true. Those details are highly important.

Oh yep, of course. In terms of gaining a criminal conviction for the perpetrators. IMO all three are jointly guilty of causing Logan's death.

I'm not legally qualified to know how that could be charged. I personally believe that both JC and the Youth both intentionally delivered blows forceful enough to be fatal and so there was no 'killer blow', albeit someone could have finished Logan off once and for all in the small hours, he was not going to survive without hospital treatment. I also believe AW was violent to Logan in fits of temper and may have even dealt potentially lethal blows herself.

The thing is, I don't think the details will ever be known. I don't think they can be. All three perpetrators are delusional enough to not actually have a version of 'truth' that anywhere near matches reality. That's not just them being dishonest. Although they are all three extremely dishonest also. It's their profoundly distorted perceptions of reality.

 

[Moll]

Jay_Tec - I suspect we all share that view because it's frankly obvious that with them all lying we are not going to know the whole truth. We all know that AW deludes herself as well as others and JC keeps his mouth shut in order to give the prosecution less to go on.

But speculation except within a framework of the evidence we have, and in order to pursue lines of enquiry that might nail a lie, seems to me almost pointless. Justice is only going to be done through that kind of detailed work, a tremendous amount of which seems to have been done in this case. All the gut feelings and imaginings people may have are just self-indulgence without that.

'Oh yep' - very dismissive!

 

[Cherwell]

Yes, we know this and his father Ben Mwangi has given evidence. But, as you say, he's light-skinned. None of his photos would immediately suggest anything in particular about his ethnicity. 'Mixed-race' isn't helpful in this case in the context of finding a missing child.

It would have been helpful for elimination purposes. If he really had gone missing.

I don't think we can fairly judge from photos though. I actually thought JC was mixed race from the first photo I saw.

<modsnip -off topic to the case>

 

[Dotta]

Jay_Tec - I suspect we all share that view because it's frankly obvious that with them all lying we are not going to know the whole truth. We all know that AW deludes herself as well as others and JC keeps his mouth shut in order to give the prosecution less to go on.

But speculation except within a framework of the evidence we have, and in order to pursue lines of enquiry that might nail a lie, seems to me almost pointless. Justice is only going to be done through that kind of detailed work, a tremendous amount of which seems to have been done in this case. All the gut feelings and imaginings people may have are just self-indulgence without that.

'Oh yep' - very dismissive!

Oh Yes, the devil is in (proven) details!

 

[HilaryHormone]

I rather feel AW' s memory issues are linked to the days before and after Logan's murder.

I believe she spent time working as a prison cleaner which some one with fibromyalgia would find very difficult to do.

As I said earlier the prison medical team will be able to monitor her closely. She also will not have to worry about being responsible for her own medication as it will be measured and given to her each day.

Her loss of hearing could be a bonus in prison as she can take out her hearing aids and be oblivious to any noise around her.

If AW had an illness that impacts cognitive function in the slightest, I imagine this would have formed a significant part of her defence e.g. poor judgement, brain fog.

Sadly for Logan the social worker was no longer on his case. I noted that in court it was stated his social worker saw him a few times a week. That's a lot of contact. How can a child go from high contact to none? It's heartbreaking.

Most likely the high contact was the assessment period and for whatever reason no significant concerns were raised that warranted ongoing statutory involvement. The lack of communication between the youths worker and Logan’s was just not good enough. Even the fact JC had the youth in his care baffles me.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Jay_Tec - I suspect we all share that view because it's frankly obvious that with them all lying we are not going to know the whole truth. We all know that AW deludes herself as well as others and JC keeps his mouth shut in order to give the prosecution less to go on.

But speculation except within a framework of the evidence we have, and in order to pursue lines of enquiry that might nail a lie, seems to me almost pointless. Justice is only going to be done through that kind of detailed work, a tremendous amount of which seems to have been done in this case. All the gut feelings and imaginings people may have are just self-indulgence without that.

'Oh yep' - very dismissive!

No need to be attacking. 'Oh yep' was intended as an assurance, like 'of course'.

I made it clear that I was speaking in terms of predator - prey dynamics and dysfunctional family dynamics from an analytic stance. I said that.

Not everybody has the same view. Many people here have different views on who killed Logan and how.

Analysing family dynamics is not 'gut feelings' or 'self-indulgence'. However, I am very clear that analysing family dynamics and dysfunction is also NOT the key to convicting criminals who have murdered small boys from within the UK criminal justice system - that was also the very point of my post.

So, I agree with you but same time it was already stated by me, so unsure why you felt the need to say it.

 

[Jay_Tec]

I tell you what, and this is my blunt opinion:

Logan was being murdered in the eyes of the world.

It is the last child abuse case Im going to follow.
After Arthur's case and now Logan's - it is just too much for me.
But I will stick here to the bitter end of this trial.

I want to see 3 monsters jailed.

I really feel you there. I feel the same. I am following a similar case, not yet gone to court, of a young girl Charlise Mutton in Australia whose circumstances has much resonance with this one. It's almost too much to know about this dark side of life

 

[Skigh]

One think I expected to see during the trial was evidence showing searches on their other devices. We heard about AW's searches the night/ morning Logan died but not any earlier searches or confirmation of what Logan watched on the laptop.

 

[Kitkat28]

All moo


We don't know she's not got it. We don't know her full history but from it saying earlier she thought she had MS and the tablets she's taking it wouldn't surprise me. Memory is a massive thing with it as well. Does it even say she gets pip? It's such a complex illness that there's no simple test u can do to be diagnosed with it.

I know. I’ve had it for years.

 

[Jay_Tec]

One think I expected to see during the trial was evidence showing searches on their other devices. We heard about AW's searches the night/ morning Logan died but not any earlier searches or confirmation of what Logan watched on the laptop.

Good point. Probably he would have been playing movie DVDs or games, not connected to internet?

Edit: Not to say he was capable of watching anything at all

 

[tedtink]

IMO None of them are delusional.
They are just all bare faced liars.

 

[Jay_Tec]

IMO None of them are delusional.
They are just all bare faced liars.

And for that bit, we have court evidenced proof 100% !
The rest of it, who knows, doesn't even really matter.

 

[Seattle1]

I just bristled a bit because it was the very first thing she said about him, and he is not ty[ical of a mixed race child necessarily, in terms of his colouring and eye color and features etc. But it is probably just me, over reacting to it.

I agree with you@katydid23. I think this description was two years of JC reminding AW that her child was a mixed raced kid with ugly hair. (When recently asked about Logan's curly hair, AW responded, it makes his head sweaty)! Wtf?!! MOO

 

[Bluedaisy100]

I agree with you@katydid23. I think this description was two years of JC reminding AW that her child was a mixed raced kid with ugly hair. (When recently asked about Logan's curly hair, AW responded, it makes his head sweaty)! Wtf?!! MOO

When AW was directly asked about Logan's hair, she deflected and said his mother thought it lovely (as do I)

 

[Jay_Tec]

When AW was directly asked about Logan's hair, she deflected and said his mother thought it lovely (as do I)

Yep, I caught that! She mean her mother right? Her mother thinks it's lovely? What a bizarre way to answer a question.

Edit: I'm guessing prosecution were trying to build a case that Logan was demonised and tormented just for being... himself... hair and all other attributes included

 

[Seattle1]

Ms Rees said: “Did he resent Logan because he reminded him of Ben Mwangi and the relationship you had with Ben Mwangi?”

Williamson said: “I didn’t talk about my relationship with Ben….. He was quite obsessive about the idea I was having an affair with him.”

Ms Rees said: “Did Logan look like Ben? Williamson said: “He was the spit of him.”

Ms Rees said: “Did you like Logan’s curly hair?” Williamson said: “My mother loved his curly hair but bless him he got really sweaty on his head.”

Ms Rees said: “You shaved his head so he looked liked John Cole.” Williamson said: “And his dad, he wanted to look like everybody…. I used to have the underneath of my hair shaved. He looked up to [Cole], he was desperate for a father figure.”

4/7/22 Logan Mwangi murder trial latest as mum admits 'selfish' lies

 

[Jay_Tec]

Ms Rees said: “Did he resent Logan because he reminded him of Ben Mwangi and the relationship you had with Ben Mwangi?”

Williamson said: “I didn’t talk about my relationship with Ben….. He was quite obsessive about the idea I was having an affair with him.”

Ms Rees said: “Did Logan look like Ben? Williamson said: “He was the spit of him.”

Ms Rees said: “Did you like Logan’s curly hair?” Williamson said: “My mother loved his curly hair but bless him he got really sweaty on his head.”

Ms Rees said: “You shaved his head so he looked liked John Cole.” Williamson said: “And his dad, he wanted to look like everybody…. I used to have the underneath of my hair shaved. He looked up to [Cole], he was desperate for a father figure.”

4/7/22 Logan Mwangi murder trial latest as mum admits 'selfish' lies

Well here the things that are not said speak a thousand words.

Poor poor little Logan

 

[Dotta]

Well here the things that are not said speak a thousand words.

Poor poor little Logan

Re Logan's locks

She or he even said Logan had lice so his head was shaven.

 

[Sallyla]

Re Logan's locks

She or he even said Logan had lice so his head was shaven.

At one point she was saying that Logan’s head was shaved because it made him look like his bio father Ben Mwangi which made John Cole jealous. She said Logan was the double of Ben so that made Cole jealous too.

Then later on she said that Logan wanted it cut like that because John Cole’s hair was like that and she had an undercut so Logan wanted to look like them. She can’t stop lying.