UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #4

[Doris777]

Thanks for all the updates and some recaps from earlier on. I get the impression that AW has undiagnosed fibromyalgia... especially if she said she thought she had MS..I thought I had it at one point..turns out to be fibromyalgia. I think with her being on all the medication as well it's what many people with fibromyalgia take. Gabapentin is used for nerve pain and one of the others is often used in low doses for it as well. I know I sound like I'm sticking up for her and I'm definitely not but when people say she's making it up I find it frustrating as for nearly 3 years I've suffers until I got a formal diagnosis and that was after every test u can think of..i think her doctor was probably thinking the same thing but with lock down and lack of face to face doctor's appointments she's not been diagnosed. I highly doubt she's making up her illness just for pip. For anyone with fibromyalgia I'm sure they will understand how much of an impact it can have on memory and cognition function... possibly why she can't remember stuff properly? Who knows?
I know if I'm out my comfort zone or in a bad state I can't retain information at all. It's like a blur.
Definitely not making excuses for her but maybe something for people to think about. Its not an illness that's easily understood and diagnosed.

All moo

 

[katydid23]

I would never guess his ethnicity looking at his photos, JC even once described Logan's curls as "blonde".

Exactly what I was getting at.

 

[Linnyg]

If I was in their place I'd rather get it over and done with, it's just going to be going around in their heads

Unfortunately, I believe the jury will be effected by what they have seen and heard during this case for the rest of their days.

I've been an advocate for a young female and supported her through a 3 week preliminary hearing in which she was being accused of killing her two children. Some of the things I witnessed will stay with me forever.

I believe the sooner the responsibility no longer rests on their shoulders the better, but it's not going to be easy for any of them to let go and just Continue with their lives. I hope there is suitable support where needed

 

[Kitkat28]

Refresher from the prosecution's case:

Toxicology

[..]

Angharad Williamson was found to have consumed a number of medications including:

• Gabapentin [anticonvulsant]*
• Lamotrigine [anticonvulsant]*
• Levetiracetam [anticonvulsant]*
• Fluoxetine [antidepressant]*
• Amitriptyline [mental/mood problems, can cause sleepiness]*

In a previous document, Williamson was described as the following: “Ms Williamson is very much her own person and knows to voice her concerns as required. She remains responsible for her own health and medication.

“She explained her medication is not a sleeping pill but a nerve stimulant to help her relax. She explains she’s been able to parent independently.”

Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

ETA: * MOO

Amytriptyline is known as an “old style” or tricyclic antidepressant these days and is very rarely used as such. It’s more often used for pain relief in chronic long term pain conditions.

Sounds like she's got fibromyalgia to me which is hard to diagnose and follows alot of the same symptoms as ms

To be fair it doesn’t sound as though she’s actually got fibromyalgia, more like she’s decided that having fibromyalgia might be a good way to get PIP.
I wish getting PIP when you’re genuinely disabled was as easy as all these people who apparently get it for their fake illnesses make out.

 

[RusselSprout]

I was just wondering if the verdicts need to be unanimous -

To find the defendant ‘guilty’ the jury must be sure that the defendant is guilty. Sometimes you’ll hear this described as ‘sure beyond a reasonable doubt’ or ‘satisfied so you are sure’.

If the jury aren’t sure that the defendant is guilty then they must find them ‘not guilty’.

The jury are asked by the judge to reach a unanimous verdict - that means, they should all agree on whether the defendant is ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty’. If they can’t do that after carefully considering and discussing the evidence, the judge can allow them to reach a majority verdict of at least 10 people.

The verdict and sentencing | The Crown Prosecution Service

 

[bmacmillan1]

Exactly what I was getting at.

I had wondered if he was of mixed race judging from his surname and that it was mentioned somewhere that his grandfather returned to Kenya. He is still very light skinned though.

 

[Skigh]

Exactly what I was getting at.

I agree. On first glance I did not immediately think he was mixed race,but once it was stated,on looking again I could see it.

I have a feeling JC and possibly the youth could have used his mixed race to call him names and taunt him.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Re: the fly-tipping

Most of us have taken it for granted that the family really did previously or habitually fly-tip bin bags into the river.

However, do we know if they ever did? I can't imagine that would have fitted with living in high density housing in a small community, what with AW's narcissistic personality - 'perfect family' delusion.

We know it's their original cover story invented at the time where they were still sticking to a story of Logan having been abducted or running away from home.

Perhaps they were going to use it if anyone had said they'd seen them out that night. Luckily Logan's body was found quickly.

Were we *supposed* to believe that by total coincidence, the night Logan went missing is the same night they did some stealth fly tipping?

Had Logan not been quickly found, had it not been for the doorbell CCTV, were they literally going to defy anyone to prove they had put Logan in the river on the same night he was coincidentally found in a river ?

 

[Moll]

I had wondered if he was of mixed race judging from his surname and that it was mentioned somewhere that his grandfather returned to Kenya. He is still very light skinned though.

Yes, we know this and his father Ben Mwangi has given evidence. But, as you say, he's light-skinned. None of his photos would immediately suggest anything in particular about his ethnicity. 'Mixed-race' isn't helpful in this case in the context of finding a missing child.

I thought Ms Rees's questions to AW brought out some of the hostility in that household to the fact that he actually was mixed-race (as Skigh suggests, starting with JC, who was jealous of Ben Mwangi). AW's odd answer to her questions about Logan's hair brought this out.

 

[Jay_Tec]

AW seems so conscious of the effect she is creating and what the media are making of it I wondered if she took that phrase from the first nurse's testimony, but that may be unfair. It could be a genuine recollection: that kiss must have left an awful impression on her.

I've become firmly convinced now that AW is not just highly narcissistic but likely would be diagnosable as Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I know we can't 'armchair diagnose' people but were that to be the case, yes, everything she does is literally performative and conducted for a real or perceived audience (even if alone). That is why she's delusional, in fantasy, slippery.

She couldn't tell the truth if she wanted because she has no authentic self. The only points of reference she has for truth are the truths of her various characters - so there is 'Amazing Mum' with perfect family and phenomenal father - 'Disabled Needy Woman' character who needs a wheelchair, hearing aids, crutches, many medications - 'Caring Concerned School Mum' who appears at school mouthing off about Logan's safety, worries about covid, and who is a clean freak - then there's a recently born cover up story character, the 'Sleeping Mother' who slept all night and woke up to find her son abducted. All performances as she doesn't have a real AW.

She was getting ready to play 'Bereft Mother' of abducted and murdered son. Probably setting up go fund mes and getting ready to tell her tale on morning TV.

She's attempted to play 'Domestic Violence Victim' but it's not worked.

She can't tell the truth because for her, there IS NO ONE TRUTH

 

[Jay_Tec]

I've got a theory about the ripped/cut up pyjama top. Picking Logan up by the collar and ripping the collar is not going to remove a whole sleeve, or detach the front from the back by both side seams and shoulder seams.

I think it's possible AW was having problems dressing Logan with him having pain on moving his arm with a fractured clavicle. It's possible AW modified his pyjama top for this reason, removing a sleeve and opening up most of that side seam, so that she could slip it over his head without him having to raise his arm.

She wouldn't want him found in the modified top because it would show awareness of the fracture, so she put him in a different top after he died, casting it aside and forgetting about it until she saw it again when she went to remove the bed sheet to put in the wash. Then, thinking it could be found by police, she ripped the other seam to disguise the fact that the other seam had already been opened, and put it together with the earlier removed sleeve and told JC to get rid of all three pieces.

The only problem with this theory is that JC and Y both told police AW had picked him up by the collar causing it to rip. Maybe they agreed on a version when they went out to dispose of the top, so that they could distance themselves from the fractured collarbone.

Do we know any forensic info about the top ? Seems to me it's a pivotal piece of evidence but we haven't heard much.

Was it cut with scissors or knife ? Was it torn up ? Was it blood stained / spattered ?

 

[Doris777]

All moo

Amytriptyline is known as an “old style” or tricyclic antidepressant these days and is very rarely used as such. It’s more often used for pain relief in chronic long term pain conditions.


To be fair it doesn’t sound as though she’s actually got fibromyalgia, more like she’s decided that having fibromyalgia might be a good way to get PIP.
I wish getting PIP when you’re genuinely disabled was as easy as all these people who apparently get it for their fake illnesses make out.

We don't know she's not got it. We don't know her full history but from it saying earlier she thought she had MS and the tablets she's taking it wouldn't surprise me. Memory is a massive thing with it as well. Does it even say she gets pip? It's such a complex illness that there's no simple test u can do to be diagnosed with it.

 

[Jay_Tec]

I totally agree. Teachers would not have missed it. Even if he had not told them he was in pain,they would have noted him restricting his movement .

JC and AW wouldn't have sent him to school once they knew his was in pain and restricted movement - maybe that accounts for their 'pulling him from school due to Covid'

 

[Skigh]

Thanks for all the updates and some recaps from earlier on. I get the impression that AW has undiagnosed fibromyalgia... especially if she said she thought she had MS..I thought I had it at one point..turns out to be fibromyalgia. I think with her being on all the medication as well it's what many people with fibromyalgia take. Gabapentin is used for nerve pain and one of the others is often used in low doses for it as well. I know I sound like I'm sticking up for her and I'm definitely not but when people say she's making it up I find it frustrating as for nearly 3 years I've suffers until I got a formal diagnosis and that was after every test u can think of..i think her doctor was probably thinking the same thing but with lock down and lack of face to face doctor's appointments she's not been diagnosed. I highly doubt she's making up her illness just for pip. For anyone with fibromyalgia I'm sure they will understand how much of an impact it can have on memory and cognition function... possibly why she can't remember stuff properly? Who knows?
I know if I'm out my comfort zone or in a bad state I can't retain information at all. It's like a blur.
Definitely not making excuses for her but maybe something for people to think about. Its not an illness that's easily understood and diagnosed.

All moo


We don't know she's not got it. We don't know her full history but from it saying earlier she thought she had MS and the tablets she's taking it wouldn't surprise me. Memory is a massive thing with it as well. Does it even say she gets pip? It's such a complex illness that there's no simple test u can do to be diagnosed with it.

Let's hope the prison medical staff will be able to sort out AW's ailments !!

 

[Jay_Tec]

Thanks,Tortoise. It seems suspicious that he had time off for Covid ,then the holiday in Blackpool. He was not at school from 7th June to 21st. He then had Covid again in July and neither time no other family member has been reported having it.


Edited to add:

I really would like to hear from people who saw them on holiday in Blackpool how Logan appeared to be. I would have thought they would have stayed in a B&B or holiday park with other guests around.

Yes, 100% - would the police not have worked on this ? We haven't been told of anything.

I am starting to have a feeling that JC , the Youth, and their connected family are possibly one of those sort of 'well known families' who terrorise people in general. It seems that maybe a lot of background information has been gathered informally if people were too terrified to make witness statements or formal accounts.

 

[ChloLo]

I was just wondering if the verdicts need to be unanimous -

To find the defendant ‘guilty’ the jury must be sure that the defendant is guilty. Sometimes you’ll hear this described as ‘sure beyond a reasonable doubt’ or ‘satisfied so you are sure’.

If the jury aren’t sure that the defendant is guilty then they must find them ‘not guilty’.

The jury are asked by the judge to reach a unanimous verdict - that means, they should all agree on whether the defendant is ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty’. If they can’t do that after carefully considering and discussing the evidence, the judge can allow them to reach a majority verdict of at least 10 people.

The verdict and sentencing | The Crown Prosecution Service

At least 2 hours it’s pass after being sent to deliberate their verdicts and majority verdict directions being given by the judge (in practice it’s more like 2hrs 10mins). Usually longer though.
With a 12 person jury a majority verdict could be 10-2 or 11-1

 

[ChloLo]

Do we know any forensic info about the top ? Seems to me it's a pivotal piece of evidence but we haven't heard much.

Was it cut with scissors or knife ? Was it torn up ? Was it blood stained / spattered ?

From Wales Online and BBM:

Forensics
Forensic examination of Logan’s discarded dinosaur pyjama top revealed it had been torn into three parts.

The first part was the back of the garment including the collar, which was grubby with mud and had no visible blood staining.

The second part was most of the front of the garment and collar, which was grubby with mud and had no visible blood staining

The third part was a whole sleeve and sleeve cuff, grubby with mud with no visible blood staining.

There was significant damage to the garment but it was not possible to say whether the damage had been caused while it was being worn.

Logan’s DNA was found in the garment but no matches were found linking it to the three defendants.

Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

 

[Doris777]

Let's hope the prison medical staff will be able to sort out AW's ailments !!

I'm not saying it to feel sorry for her, I'm making a point about an illness that causes some bad memory issues as well as alot of other stuff as well. If she's complaining of hearing loss. That goes with it as well. Just stood out to me when i seen some posts from the beginning of the trial.

I do agree with the narssasistic personality disorder tho as alot of what she's said goes along them lines of putting on a perfect family show. But it's not like that at all.

 

[VixenLeaf]

I would suggest (IMO) the fractured clavicle happened very soon after school broke up. I don't think his teachers would have missed it.


Trial quotes:

--

"Dr Williams said fracture healing to the left collarbone was said to be at least several weeks old with parts of the bone not quite knitted together. Surrounding fresh haemorrhaging cannot exclude a more recent injury or refracture."

--

"Mr Hipkin said: “A fractured clavicle would mean two things in life. Pain and secondly lack of mobility.”

Dr Williams said: “Yes.”"

--

Ms Rees now turns to the fractured clavicle Logan suffered, for which he did not receive medical care.

The barrister said: “How painful would you expect a fractured clavicle to be?”

Dr Stalker said: “It’s very painful like any other fractured bones, they are very very uncomfortable… Every time your arm is moved the clavicle is also moved and would cause additional pain…

“It would have been very obvious it was painful.”

Ms Rees said: “Would you expect a caregiver, giving care to that child, to notice he had a fractured clavicle?”

Dr Stalker said: “I would expect so, it would be obvious when he was being dressed and undressed.”

--

Mr Hipkin said: “Logan would have been in pain, that pain wouldn’t have lasted for minutes or hours but more than days into weeks.”

Dr Stalker said: “It would.”


--

For anyone who queries whether Logan felt pain - re the earlier dislocated shoulder -



"It was agreed Logan was taken to the hospital by Williamson for a dislocated shoulder which he sustained at 5pm on August 15.

Williamson had tried to put it back in place, put it in a sling and gave Logan Calpol."


AW's police statement -

"I immediately saw Logan in a heap at the bottom of the first flight of stairs. He was screaming and appeared to be in a lot of pain."

Williamson’s statement continued: “Logan was resting his arm near his shoulder and he ate his dinner. I strapped him up with a makeshift strap, gave him Calpol and he watched a film in bed and fell asleep at 9pm. I checked on him every two hours and he appeared well.

“On August 16, I woke up at 6am when he went to the bathroom and gave him Calpol. His arm was still in a sling and movement was restricted. I put him back to bed."

--

"Ms Rees said: “She said the victim [Logan] was hit by her partner and said it was a ‘hard hit mind’. She said the victim had cried, she had comforted the victim and when it came to putting him to bed she had given Calpol. She said she woke up at 5am to find the victim missing and started panicking.”"

--

Logan's school record

"Between June 21 and July 15, Logan attended morning and afternoon every day.

On July 15 the school closed for summer holidays." [15 days before his murder]

--

link Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

it was at least several weeks old though at his death?
So it must’ve been done whilst still going tk school

 

[Jay_Tec]

From Wales Online and BBM:

Forensics
Forensic examination of Logan’s discarded dinosaur pyjama top revealed it had been torn into three parts.

The first part was the back of the garment including the collar, which was grubby with mud and had no visible blood staining.

The second part was most of the front of the garment and collar, which was grubby with mud and had no visible blood staining

The third part was a whole sleeve and sleeve cuff, grubby with mud with no visible blood staining.

There was significant damage to the garment but it was not possible to say whether the damage had been caused while it was being worn.

Logan’s DNA was found in the garment but no matches were found linking it to the three defendants.

Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

Thanks for this. It's hard to tear up a garment. Kids clothes are overlocked on all the seams.

Sounds to me this might have been something done to taunt Logan? or if this tearing was done whilst he was wearing it, then it would surely have comprised a brutal, sustained, attack of bullying?

Surely if AW were to adapt his clothing in line with neck / collar / arm injury, she'd have cut up his top.

Also if the top were pulled off a deceased Logan for whatever reason, wouldn't it have been far easier for them to have cut it off ? Tearing it off would require quite some determination and force and take a while ?

I'm starting to wonder if JC / AW / The Youth one of them had some sort of violent psychotic episode... I mean to say actually out of contact with reality and unstoppable

 

[tedtink]

Thanks for this. It's hard to tear up a garment. Kids clothes are overlocked on all the seams.

Sounds to me this might have been something done to taunt Logan? or if this tearing was done whilst he was wearing it, then it would surely have comprised a brutal, sustained, attack of bullying?

Surely if AW were to adapt his clothing in line with neck / collar / arm injury, she'd have cut up his top.

Also if the top were pulled off a deceased Logan for whatever reason, wouldn't it have been far easier for them to have cut it off ? Tearing it off would require quite some determination and force and take a while ?

I'm starting to wonder if JC / AW / The Youth one of them had some sort of violent psychotic episode... I mean to say actually out of contact with reality and unstoppable

A genuine, clinical psychotic episode would have warranted hospitalisation IMO
And if that was the case, at least one of them would be going for diminished responsibility.