Deceased/Not Found UK - Margaret Fleming, 19, Inverclyde, Scotland, 17 Dec 1999 *Guilty*

[jessie]

In the Express interview - http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863...n-away-in-fear
- Cairney says they (himself and Margaret I'm understanding) came back from Weymess Bay when Margaret saw the police car's blue lights (?? blue lights for a regular call ??) and ran.

Former deep sea diver and hotel owner Cairney said he and Margaret were returning from a trip to Wemyss Bay on October 28, 2016, when they saw police at the house.

Has he said things here which are possible to check and prove/disprove? TMI perhaps?

A long and tedious job, but could CCTV be tracked at the roads to Wemyss Bay and back on that day?

Same with Margaret going to Poland in the past year - had she a passport ? Should it be possible to check her leaving this country and entering Poland ?

 

[Taskforce88]

In the Express interview - http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863...n-away-in-fear
- Cairney says they (himself and Margaret I'm understanding) came back from Weymess Bay when Margaret saw the police car's blue lights (?? blue lights for a regular call ??) and ran.

Former deep sea diver and hotel owner Cairney said he and Margaret were returning from a trip to Wemyss Bay on October 28, 2016, when they saw police at the house.

Has he said things here which are possible to check and prove/disprove? TMI perhaps?

A long and tedious job, but could CCTV be tracked at the roads to Wemyss Bay and back on that day?

Same with Margaret going to Poland in the past year - had she a passport ? Should it be possible to check her leaving this country and entering Poland ?

Well you need to replace a passport every 10 years? and shes not been seen in 17, so that's that story blown out.

No CCTV that I am aware of on the road to WB, there is CCTV at the train station and petrol station.

Blue lights would not be used on a routine call. Plus we were told via BBC interview that he said they were in the house when a policeman shouted her name. She then allegedly ran through the police outside and ran up the main road.

Do we know the hotel he owned? Debts etc

 

[Perodicticus potto]

Well you need to replace a passport every 10 years? and shes not been seen in 17, so that's that story blown out.

I could be mistaken, but I think you only need to be interviewed in person for your first adult passport. If she had one prior to 1999, then she (or someone claiming to act on her behalf) could have renewed it by post. They would have had to supply a photo, but there are ways around that ....

 

[Sleepyface]

Sounds like a Benny Hill skit not a missing persons enquiry!!

 

[guruagain]

Sounds like a Benny Hill skit not a missing persons enquiry!!

As dreadful as this saga is that did make me chuckle - then my head started playing the music and scenes of coppers knocking at the doors and running around whilst poor Margaret legs it up the road.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I'm no psychologist but isn't there a narcissism disorder? Seemed to me that man honestly believes he is believable, he thinks he's so clever he can talk his way out of it and/or play a game with the police, knowing there's no hard evidence. And in my opinion Avril's scared of him - perhaps she has seen what he's capable of.

I think Margaret either died of neglect or abuse and he used his boat and diving skills to dump her at sea years ago. I wonder if the lack of DNA evidence (by that I mean you'd expect there to be loads of proof she was still living there) is enough to bring a case? I guess he's banking it's not.

 

[jessie]

Well you need to replace a passport every 10 years? and shes not been seen in 17, so that's that story blown out.

No CCTV that I am aware of on the road to WB, there is CCTV at the train station and petrol station.

Blue lights would not be used on a routine call. Plus we were told via BBC interview that he said they were in the house when a policeman shouted her name. She then allegedly ran through the police outside and ran up the main road.

Do we know the hotel he owned? Debts etc

Bit here about the hotel =

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2403824/missing-margaret-fleming-dig-carers-renfewshire-home/

The couple are the last people to have seen Margaret, 36, after she moved into their home - yards from the Firth of Clyde in Inverkip, Renfrewshire - following a family bust-up 17 years ago.

But detectives fear she may have been killed in 1999, when she was 19.

Last night a former business associate of the pair said they had an active social life but dropped off the radar when their hotel, the Castle Levan in Gourock, went bust in the 1990s.

He said: “I remember Eddie being the life and soul of the party back then and everybody seemed to know him.

“I still remember his 50th birthday party at the hotel, which at that time was a good-going business.

“He wasn’t short of money. But when the hotel closed you didn’t see him around so much.”

Official documents show Avril was a director of the hotel from 1988. There is no mention of Eddie, but our source said it was “very much” his business.

He said Eddie’s late wife Margaret was around at that time but said it was “common knowledge” that he was in a relationship with worker Avril.

 

[Satchie]

I'm think about what kind of evidence police would need to charge this couple.

I don't think they can lay a vague charge based on her not being there: I think they have to go back and try to do some reconstruction of events, try to pin down a time frame, and present a scenario that will be convincing to a jury. Getting that interview out will, I hope, encourage people to come forward with contradictory evidence.

They may be able to pinpoint when they first left for a trip. She must have been gone by then.

It's so terrible that no one checked up on Margaret. She wasn't wanted, no one cared.

 

[Satchie]

It just occurred to me, the best police tactic is to try to get the wife to confess.

 

[Ironside]

It just occurred to me, the best police tactic is to try to get the wife to confess.

Yes police Scotland are playing the long game here and they know exactly what they're doing. Wee Avril looked so uncomfortable in the interview I almost felt sorry for her.

Random thought but maybe the hotel Big Eddie owned should be searched. I'm now thinking of HH Holmes!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Bit here about the hotel =

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2403824/missing-margaret-fleming-dig-carers-renfewshire-home/

The couple are the last people to have seen Margaret, 36, after she moved into their home - yards from the Firth of Clyde in Inverkip, Renfrewshire - following a family bust-up 17 years ago.

But detectives fear she may have been killed in 1999, when she was 19.

Last night a former business associate of the pair said they had an active social life but dropped off the radar when their hotel, the Castle Levan in Gourock, went bust in the 1990s.

He said: “I remember Eddie being the life and soul of the party back then and everybody seemed to know him.

“I still remember his 50th birthday party at the hotel, which at that time was a good-going business.

“He wasn’t short of money. But when the hotel closed you didn’t see him around so much.”

Official documents show Avril was a director of the hotel from 1988. There is no mention of Eddie, but our source said it was “very much” his business.

He said Eddie’s late wife Margaret was around at that time but said it was “common knowledge” that he was in a relationship with worker Avril.

So Cairney's 50th would have been held around 1992, Avril would have been 31/32 (born April 1960). I can't find when the hotel closed but I don't think it was much after that. Also, interested to hear about Cairey's "late wife Margaret", anyone know when she passed away?

 

[Satchie]

the last independent sighting of her was at a family gathering on 17 December 1999, when she was 19.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-39745314

So I think the hotel went bankrupt before then, and probably before she moved in with the couple in 1997. Makes sense, they'd have no interest in housing her when they were busy running a hotel.

 

[Legally Bland]

I can't link directly, but the hotel went bust in April '96.

You can search it from here:

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo

(Need to check the box for dissolved companies and uncheck the box for current/recently dissolved companies.)

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Good work, LB, I couldn't find anything!

So...
1991 Cairney holds his 50th at the hotel, it's doing well
1996 Hotel folds
1997 Margaret moves in
1999 Last seen at family party

Can anyone find out:
when/where Cairney's wife Margaret died? Are there Scottish BMD records online?
when the Inverkip house was bought?
when Cairney & Jones married? Did they?
do either of these 'carers' have children?

 

[bluebird69]

Scotlands people is online however you have to purchase copies of certificates if the marriage is less than 75years ago and death is less than 50 years ago I did find a possible match using the names mentioned earlier

 

[easynic150]

Do we know when his first wife was born?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bluebird69]

Died 2004 aged 60 I believe

 

[Legally Bland]

I can't link directly, but the hotel went bust in April '96.

You can search it from here:

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo

(Need to check the box for dissolved companies and uncheck the box for current/recently dissolved companies.)

Just adding to this.

I believe this is the correct company, as it has AJ listed as a director from Dec 1988, as stated in the newspaper article above.

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC098137/CASTLE-LEVAN-HOTELS-LIMITED/companies-house-data

But EC appears to have gone personally bankrupt earlier in 1988:

The Estate of EDWARD CAIRNEY, formerly residing at 69 Ness Road, Greenock, sometime at The Castle Levan Hotel, Cloch Road,Gourock, or "Rolands", Parsons Row, Wisbeck, Cambridgeshire,was sequestrated by the Sheriff of North Strathclyde at Greenock on 9th February 1988, and Donald Ian Turner, Chartered Accountant,George House, 50 George Square, Glasgow G2 1RR, has been appointed Interim Trustee on the sequestrated Estate. For the purpose of formulating claims, Creditors should note that the date of sequestration is 26th January 1988.The statutory Meeting of Creditors will be held on Friday, 29th July 1988, at 11 a.m. at George House, 50 George Square, Glasgow G2 1RR. Only those Creditors who produce a statement of claim at the Meeting, or have lodged one with me prior to it will be entitled to vote at the Meeting. Creditors who have not yet received a statement of claim form may obtain one by contacting me at the undernoted address.

D. I. Turner,
Interim Trustee
George House,
5O George Square,
Glasgow
G21RR.

13th July 1988.
(726)

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/51415/page/8225

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Just adding to this.

I believe this is the correct company, as it has AJ listed as a director from Dec 1988, as stated in the newspaper article above.

But EC appears to have gone personally bankrupt earlier in 1988:

Well that would explain why he wasn't a director.

So Avril's on the scene from at least 1988 but wife Margaret didn't die until possibly 2004. I'll add to the rough timeline:

1988 Cairney is made bankrupt
1988 Avril becomes director of the hotel, which Cairney runs
1991 Cairney holds his 50th at the hotel, it's doing well
1996 Hotel folds
1997 Margaret moves in
1999 Last seen at family party
2004 Wife Margaret Cairney dies (tbc)

 

[Perodicticus potto]

So was Margaret Cairney also Margaret Fleming's carer? Or did she and her husband live separately?