GUILTY UK - Mikaeel Kular, 3, Edinburgh, Scotland, 15 Jan 2014 - #3

[haden]

The twins father is nigerian, his name has already been mentioned, sorry i cannot recall it but this is not the same guy, the guy killed on the 9th is not the father of the twins

It was reported that the Nigerian guy is the father of the older three kids.

The twins have a different father. He was never named. Not even on the birth certificate. It was only mentioned by the police that they have spoken to him.

He is reported in the media of being of Pakistani origin.

 

[PS8800]

I think this is something to do with the guy that was killed recently ... the one seen taking the twins to nursery. What if he was their father? The court case about his execution-style killing was on the 9th Jan ..... Im trying to join up all the dots. Maybe she has info the gang want ... or she was involved somehow ... the police know and are using this to pressure her?Into spilling what she knows? I dont know really, if thats plausable.

The twins father is nigerian, his name has already been mentioned, sorry i cannot recall it but this is not the same guy, the guy killed on the 9th is not the father of the twins

 

[haden]

The twins father is nigerian, his name has already been mentioned, sorry i cannot recall it but this is not the same guy, the guy killed on the 9th is not the father of the twins

I think you mixed up a lot :floorlaugh:

If you search for Mickaeels father you will find out that he is of Pakistani origin and has been spoken to by the police.

Nobody was killed on the 9th.. On the 9th there was a court case re RK's friend's death, who died last year.

The older children's ( first 3) father is Nigerian and he lives near them and sees them regularly and he has been named and also spoken to.

 

[PS8800]

I think the difference between how we respond to mothers and how we respond to fathers is that I think the majority of us are ladies. I know we have some men on here, but I'm pretty confident they're by far out numbered.

Getting pregnant and having a baby doesn't make someone a mother, but its still a life changing experience. It's the love, dedication, day to day, the good stuff, the hard stuff, and the days you're so tired you feel like your brain is liquefying that makes a parent.

As a mother it's harder for me to take a mother harming her child is because this is a woman who had all of the same experiences I did as a mom. Everything from feeling the life growing inside of her to up all nights and kissing boo boos.... but somehow was able to do the most awful thing imaginable and my brain cant understand or accept it.

Unfortunately in alot of cases (and cultures or religions) some women should never get rid of their children, if its not an option who knows how some women may end up feeling. There are also alot in UK that have children to reap the financial benefits and so have a ridiculous number of kids, never need to work and end up with more than if they done it alone so to speak, not to mention women who have babies to try and keep the guy.

 

[PS8800]

With regards to the foster parents, no it's not just you. I'm astounded that they felt it was right to make any comment at all. I'm less surprised by the friend making some kind of statement. I think it's common for friends, neighbours & acquaintances to make comments ( usually with the proviso that they are not named in the news story)

I am a little bit leery of their comment that they 'loved Mikaeel like their own child'. It could be true but I think it's also possible that there's an element of attention seeking going on, since they had to have been the ones who went to the press with their story in the first place as it wouldn't have been a matter of public record & Mikaeel's twin sisters temporary foster parents haven't been quoted at all.

I would have thought that temporary foster parents have to retain an element of professional distance whilst still giving nurturing care, from the children they care for on short term basis' since they aren't actually their own children, they are only temporary carers & getting too close might damage an already emotionally vulnerable child even further when they were taken back & upset the career as well when a child they 'loved like their own' was removed.

I could be wrong about that though as I (thankfully) have no knowledge of foster care or foster parents.

I'm not trying to slate foster parents here as I think they do fantastic work

I always thought the same, my parents being foster carers have been that attached to 2 (out of around 20 kids) and i always thought this was a negative thing but the belief is that if the child can make that bond it is seen as a positive thing and as long as they are moved into care young/early enough they more often than not make that connection again with their adopted parents if the case may be.
Just to add the 2 were babies when they arrived (under 6months) and stayed with them for more than 18months...

 

[PS8800]

I think you mixed up a lot :floorlaugh:

If you search for Mickaeels father you will find out that he is of Pakistani origin and has been spoken to by the police.

Nobody was killed on the 9th.. On the 9th there was a court case re RK's friend's death, who died last year.

The older children's ( first 3) father is Nigerian and he lives near them and sees them regularly and he has been named and also spoken to.

Oh yes, thank you for the correction

 

[PS8800]

IMO re her social media, dating profiles seem very contradicting. You cannot really tell what she wants exactly? Her career choices appear to be the same (if what is stated here is truth) Mobile beauty vs IT Manager? Which is it to be? I think this could end up being a very convoluted case. Not to be too narrow minded but it says alot that she may not have done the usual "dignified" thing as seen in most asian cultures, even living in UK, by not marrying someone of her culture and staying with him. In Scotland where I am from the asian community are generally a very private one and generally dont tend to marry outside their own culture. Maybe she was a bit of a rebel tattoos,piercings, comments on her dating profiles etc etc, I dont think this would be taken too lightly by the extended family IMO JMO
On top of that there is something to be said about a parent who murders their child then leads the police on down the garden path. Not so innocent and not an accident IMO.

 

[Deep12]

I think RK's career as an IT director ended around 2009/2010 when the business folded , I'm guessing it was the same time her marriage ended seeing that the company ownership/director was in her married name...from company records online....dealing with computers,parts,phones anything to do with IT...
Then RK had the twins 2010.....maybe RK started college after the twins were put into foster care....
I don't know how long HND's take in college ,I'm guessing 2yrs...

RK's lifestyle choice and her social media point to someone who likes a wee party...but who doesn't....
Marriage ended , business ended...3 kids....move back home....start going out....meet someone else....another 2 kids.....can't cope.....foster care.....gets it together to get an HND(although I don't know when RK got this) ....gets her wee twins back....
The Nigerian father lived close , I'm hoping that he was involved with all the children as much as a family unit could be.....

I would say her involvement with her friend who got killed last year could have been one full of drug troubles or not.....we don't really know.....he was reported as seen with the children ,taking them to nursery etc but who knows if RK herself was involved or how much.
You are allowed to be friends with anyone....doesn't mean you have the same lifestyle or involvements.
But
I think the opinion of thinking it all has to do with drugs and a certain lifestyle, rather than try and get your head round any other options for why she killed her own child, seems easier in a way...IMO..
still very frightening and just shocking......

Tonight balloons and lanterns were released in memory of MIkaeel ...

Everyone was warned about flight path in regards to the tribute....and were advised that they could release 100 only....the organizers were expecting at least a 1,000 people.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-25871886

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...alloons-tribute-flight-path-warning-1-3280964
http://edinburgh.stv.tv/64301/

 

[Deep12]

Here is a link to another murder case....Callum Wilson , 11 month old
Similarities to Mikaeels ..Callum was fostered out ,returned to his Mother then 4 months later he is dead.
The Mother has been sentenced to life, with a minimum of 14yrs.....
wish they would change the wording of that sentence or give them actual life in prison....

Horrible!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-25874635

Sending out a 'Lullaby' to all the Sleeping Babies

 

[sar2them1984]

Here is a link to another murder case....Callum Wilson , 11 month old
Similarities to Mikaeels ..Callum was fostered out ,returned to his Mother then 4 months later he is dead.
The Mother has been sentenced to life, with a minimum of 14yrs.....
wish they would change the wording of that sentence or give them actual life in prison....

Horrible!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-25874635

Sending out a 'Lullaby' to all the Sleeping Babies

That case made me soo mad. Posing for a pic after you've injured your child so badly it then dies of these injuries and then trying to blame it on your elder child. F$&#&#&# SO MAD

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[gia2]

I don't know about anyone else but I find the Instagram account a little chilling.. The fact That there is very few pics of Mikaeel, flipagrams for all the other kids and very strange music choices as well.. but that could be me reading to much in to it. It's a recent account which again could be because she was new to the app or more sinister and created with the intent of creating the image of a perfect family.

Welcome to the forum!


I think we need to be careful when using social media. I've done a quick count of the instagram photos and there aren't 'few' pics of Mikaeel compared to the other kids. (I'm not singling you out here, I think a few people have said something similar).

I counted the incidence of Rosdeep and the children in the pictures (I may have overcounted the number of pics of the girls as in some pics I guessed if it was them or a friend of the family).

Where one person appears in a single picture file more than once, they're only counted once.

71 files, 5 of them videos.

6 - Oldest boy
9 - Middle boy
12 - Mikaeel
20 - Oldest girl
18 - Youngest girl

8 - Rosdeep alone (including graduation pic)
6 - Rosdeep with kids
3 - Rosdeep with friends

5 - Animals
7 - Quotes
4 - General (jelly beans, Christmas tree, coffee flowers).

Videos
1 - Eldest boy
1 - Middle boy
1 - Older girl
1 - Girl dancing at table with Mikaeel out of shot
1 - 'Happy days' included many pictures of all the children, many pictures include Mikaeel

All I'm trying to say is that it's easy to make assumptions from social media when viewing the images knowing a child is dead and the mother charged in relation to his death. We can get a faulty perception of things (such as believing one child is featured less when in factthey aren't).

 

[sar2them1984]

Welcome to the forum!


I think we need to be careful when using social media. I've done a quick count of the instagram photos and there aren't 'few' pics of Mikaeel compared to the other kids. (I'm not singling you out here, I think a few people have said something similar).

I counted the incidence of Rosdeep and the children in the pictures (I may have overcounted the number of pics of the girls as in some pics I guessed if it was them or a friend of the family).

Where one person appears in a single picture file more than once, they're only counted once.

71 files, 5 of them videos.

6 - Oldest boy
9 - Middle boy
12 - Mikaeel
20 - Oldest girl
18 - Youngest girl

8 - Rosdeep alone (including graduation pic)
6 - Rosdeep with kids
3 - Rosdeep with friends

5 - Animals
7 - Quotes
4 - General (jelly beans, Christmas tree, coffee flowers).

Videos
1 - Eldest boy
1 - Middle boy
1 - Older girl
1 - Girl dancing at table with Mikaeel out of shot
1 - 'Happy days' included many pictures of all the children, many pictures include Mikaeel

All I'm trying to say is that it's easy to make assumptions from social media when viewing the images knowing a child is dead and the mother charged in relation to his death. We can get a faulty perception of things (such as believing one child is featured less when in factthey aren't).

I found the instagram account very enlightening as it was that account which made me Realise that Mikaeel featured just as much as the other children.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[haden]

I think RK's career as an IT director ended around 2009/2010 when the business folded , I'm guessing it was the same time her marriage ended seeing that the company ownership/director was in her married name...from company records online....dealing with computers,parts,phones anything to do with IT...
Then RK had the twins 2010.....maybe RK started college after the twins were put into foster care....
I don't know how long HND's take in college ,I'm guessing 2yrs...

RK's lifestyle choice and her social media point to someone who likes a wee party...but who doesn't....
Marriage ended , business ended...3 kids....move back home....start going out....meet someone else....another 2 kids.....can't cope.....foster care.....gets it together to get an HND(although I don't know when RK got this) ....gets her wee twins back....
The Nigerian father lived close , I'm hoping that he was involved with all the children as much as a family unit could be.....

I would say her involvement with her friend who got killed last year could have been one full of drug troubles or not.....we don't really know.....he was reported as seen with the children ,taking them to nursery etc but who knows if RK herself was involved or how much.
You are allowed to be friends with anyone....doesn't mean you have the same lifestyle or involvements.
But
I think the opinion of thinking it all has to do with drugs and a certain lifestyle, rather than try and get your head round any other options for why she killed her own child, seems easier in a way...IMO..
still very frightening and just shocking......

Tonight balloons and lanterns were released in memory of MIkaeel ...

Everyone was warned about flight path in regards to the tribute....and were advised that they could release 100 only....the organizers were expecting at least a 1,000 people.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-25871886

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...alloons-tribute-flight-path-warning-1-3280964
http://edinburgh.stv.tv/64301/

Lots of judgemental quotes here..

We don't know anything.

To me it feels that the Nigerian father was and still is a very responsive person.
No paper article ever stated that he was ever into drugs etc..

We don't even know if Rosie was into drugs.

She might have had an IT company in her name while she was with her fist husband but there are no indications or news articles that she ever worked in it.
We don't know how long the twins were in care, it could have been only few weeks.
IMO we should wait for more information before making assumptions.

And the most important:

She hasn't been convicted of any murder.

 

[ZoeD]

Welcome to the forum!


I think we need to be careful when using social media. I've done a quick count of the instagram photos and there aren't 'few' pics of Mikaeel compared to the other kids. (I'm not singling you out here, I think a few people have said something similar).

I counted the incidence of Rosdeep and the children in the pictures (I may have overcounted the number of pics of the girls as in some pics I guessed if it was them or a friend of the family).

Where one person appears in a single picture file more than once, they're only counted once.

71 files, 5 of them videos.

6 - Oldest boy
9 - Middle boy
12 - Mikaeel
20 - Oldest girl
18 - Youngest girl

8 - Rosdeep alone (including graduation pic)
6 - Rosdeep with kids
3 - Rosdeep with friends

5 - Animals
7 - Quotes
4 - General (jelly beans, Christmas tree, coffee flowers).

Videos
1 - Eldest boy
1 - Middle boy
1 - Older girl
1 - Girl dancing at table with Mikaeel out of shot
1 - 'Happy days' included many pictures of all the children, many pictures include Mikaeel

All I'm trying to say is that it's easy to make assumptions from social media when viewing the images knowing a child is dead and the mother charged in relation to his death. We can get a faulty perception of things (such as believing one child is featured less when in factthey aren't).

Just nipped back on and without actually counting you're probably right, I guess he's not as obvious in some of the photos which could be the due to the photos being more from the back/side. . Possibly more camera shy.
It's weird how you project your own feelings/thoughts isn't it? I always feel guilty if I post a pic or collage of one of my kids and not the other so the fact there was not a flipagram of him possibly tainted my view.

I've noticed there isn't much In the way of news regarding this trial now.. Is this something to do with Scottish law? I'm not well up on the process .

 

[Deep12]

Lots of judgemental quotes here..

We don't know anything.

To me it feels that the Nigerian father was and still is a very responsive person.
No paper article ever stated that he was ever into drugs etc..

We don't even know if Rosie was into drugs.

She might have had an IT company in her name while she was with her fist husband but there are no indications or news articles that she ever worked in it.
We don't know how long the twins were in care, it could have been only few weeks.
IMO we should wait for more information before making assumptions.

And the most important:

She hasn't been convicted of any murder.

Yep...I already stated ..'we don't know'

I never said the nigerian father was into drugs.....I didn't even say RK was....

RK herself is listed as an IT Director of a company.

I never really said any length of time for foster care...I really do try to not assume to much....

Mostly just thinking out loud with my opinion, hopefully, without being judgemental.

I'm allowed to think about did she or didn't she.....I said having an opinion about an involvement with drugs which could have led to Mikaeels death, seems to be easier....IMO

But I can also think of many many other theories......and have different opinions...

Accident
Overdose(accidental or not)
Mental illness
Someone else
Violent Battering
Illness( ie: pneumonia)
Neglect

Its very difficult to get your head round a child's death when the mother is charged with murder ....... in any circumstance.


And yes,....it will all come out in the wash

 

[Alyce]

Just nipped back on and without actually counting you're probably right, I guess he's not as obvious in some of the photos which could be the due to the photos being more from the back/side. . Possibly more camera shy.
It's weird how you project your own feelings/thoughts isn't it? I always feel guilty if I post a pic or collage of one of my kids and not the other so the fact there was not a flipagram of him possibly tainted my view.

I've noticed there isn't much In the way of news regarding this trial now.. Is this something to do with Scottish law? I'm not well up on the process .

BBM - I think there isn't much more that can be reported at the moment until the next hearing on Tuesday 28th. I am not sure, but I think it was stated somewhere that at this hearing, a plea has to be entered by RK ?

I am wondering also, if the plea is guilty, will the cause of death ever be made known, or will there only be sentencing ?

I am thinking of a recent case in England, where the accused changed his plea to guilty on the first day of the trial, so there was no trial, but the sequence of events and cause of death were all explained in the judges sentencing remarks - but don't know if this is the same in Scotland

 

[haden]

Last night I was reading articles on Mo Abdi's murder. There is lots in news on this case.
Few bits I found interesting.

Mr Abdi's father is in hiding, protected by his community. He fears being attacked by the same gang.
The driver of the car which was chased for 4 hours and where Mr Abdi died is under police protection for 24 hours a day..
I also found a statement by Abdi's best friend's sister, she claimes the gang came to their home, but this wasn't clear.. not sure if the gang came to Abdi's best friends home, only for reason he was his best friend.

This is highly interesting!

As if they came to his best friends door they could have also come to Rosie's door..

I will post links in a minute

Members of the Elhag family, who have been friends with the victim for ten years, said they had spoken to the driver of the car carrying Mohammed during the high-speed pursuit – now under 24-hour police protection – who witnessed the shooting.

They claimed the gang had set out to kill Mohammed after his Leith home was raided and crack cocaine seized.

The driver – a Libyan Scot who the Evening News is not naming – saw Mohammed smile at him as he fell to the ground.http://hiiraan.com/news4/2013/May/29585/edinburgh_gun_death_victim_chased_for_4_hours.aspx

A Somali gangland insider in Birmingham told the Mail that Mohammed was targeted after being charged with drug dealing. His father is now believed to be in hiding in the city.

He said: “The Somali gangs in Birmingham, based in Sparkbrook, have extensive networks that do stretch to Aberdeen and across Scotland and anyone who is seen as a potential grass is severely dealt with.

"Mohammed Abdi had strong family and tribal links in the city and he used to make regular visits with his father Omar who I understand is now staying with relatives here, for fear of being attacked himself.”http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/somalian-drug-gang-linked-scottish-4024616

 

[Supernovae]

BBC/Guardian for fact
Sky for first reports
Sun/Mirror for daring speculation (which to be fair often turns out to be true)
Daily Mail for photos
Websleuths/other forums for armchair detection!

I'd read the Sun for the weather provided I could also check outside.

 

[zwiebel]

The family have asked that all the toy and teddy tributes go to Edinburgh children's hospital, which is a nice thought. I saw one kind local lady even offered to wash them all if it was needed.

http://edinburgh.stv.tv/65213/

 

[Alyce]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...appears-in-court-charged-with-his-murder.html


Re the second court appearance tomorrow 28th

I have just read this article ( from the 20th ) and have noticed the paragraph which says


full details of the charges she faces will not be released until she appears in open court at a later date.


so presumably we will hear nothing more tomorrow after the court appearance, except possibly a trial date ?