GUILTY UK - Mikaeel Kular, 3, Edinburgh, Scotland, 15 Jan 2014 - #3

[italianWSfan]

I don't even think you have to be a bad parent for that sort of dichotomy to be established. I bet my neighbour would describe me as nice but harried, leading to speculation that I was struggling with the new family addition. I'm not, but she only sees us as I hurry the children to school and hope they won't be late, because their natural sleeping habits aren't compatible with school times no matter what I do. I'm sure there are people who have witnessed my middle child's tantrums and suspect I'm some sort of abusive monster, because she'll scream "You're hurting me!" even if you're barely touching her, in the hopes you'll let go and she can run off/refuse to move/win the argument. Sorry darling, I'd rather "hurt" you then let you run into oncoming traffic. The teachers at school would likely say we're a loving and involved family, with kids who are always happy and confident. Three views, all validated by personal observation but not painting the complete picture. I'm a fantastic mom, but sometimes I get fed up with the constant power struggles and react imperfectly, and sometimes we're rushing around like headless chickens and I end up frazzled because I hate being late, and sometimes I send the kids to bed half an hour early instead of doing bedtime stories because I really don't care about sibling squabble #319, and I don't check on sleeping kids if they are ill unless I have to. Neither a saint nor a sinner. At the end of the day, my kids are happy, safe, loved (and loving!) and thriving despite my flaws, so I'm doing alright.


I posted this in the last thread but bringing it over because it was right at the end:



I saw a Daily Mail article that said police won't confirm whether they were called about his welfare in the past, which I think might be addressing that story?

Awesome description of an "imperfect" mom. Could be me, really! :loveyou::loveyou:
Nobody is perfect, but that's the way it should be.

 

[zwiebel]

This 'lawyers warn' story appears to be a little hyped ( it's just one lawyer, who I suspect is often asked to comment on cases), but it is maybe something people running FB etc for Mikaeel should bear in mind. I have seen some strong comments. And I think Scottish courts can be particularly strict on that? Or is that just me stereotyping Scottish authorities? I hope not!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/lawyers-warn-social-media-users-3040334

 

[graceholl]

Just wanted to comment on this post from thread 2.

I just want to defend single mums of multiple children! I personally don't think large families or families of single parents are "known to Social Services". There would need to be a reason for Social Services becoming involved - such as a concern being recorded at school following a disclosure from a child. That is just one example. Social Services don't become involved just because someone has lots of children.

I was a single mother to 5 children from a number of years and I certainly wasn't known to them, neither did anyone ever comment on my parenting skills! I worked 30 hours a week, with no family support (as they lived in another country) and I studied for a First Class Honours degree in the night, once they were all asleep. My children all do/did well at school and were always described as "kind, polite and well behaved children".

I know it wasn't meant personally, but i don't think its fair to assume that just because someone is a single parent, or a family has a large number of children, that they are unable to care for them properly!

Involvement with and knowledge of are different things, though. I didn't mean 'known to' in a 'known to because of potential abuse' thing, just that a mother on a low income with five kids under 10 may be 'known' insofar as may require more help. My boyfriend was 'known' to social services as a child not because of any concerning issues but because his mum was on a v v low income, he needed help with transport to and from school on occasion, and because of an ongoing custody dispute between his parents. It was not due to any criticism of his parenting, just his situation. Just the way I was not criticising anyone's parenting. Apologies if I caused any offence.

 

[SnoopyDoobyDoo]

I totally agree with this........ I have a few friends who are ( were really as the children are adults now ) single mums and they were in no way ever * known * to social services.
There does have to be a very good reason.

I read the initial post as talking about social services in general rather than child welfare. I know (for example) that our local health visitors are more proactive in keeping in touch with families where there is only one parent or a poor support system, even if it's not an official policy.

 

[zwiebel]

It is on Badoo.

badoo.com/en/0288117302/

You need to have your own profile with information and photos to see Rosie's profile completely though.
:seeya:‎

I'll only do that if I can enter my dog. He's the only single member of my household.

 

[graceholl]

This 'lawyers warn' story appears to be a little hyped ( it's just one lawyer, who I suspect is often asked to comment on cases), but it is maybe something people running FB etc for Mikaeel should bear in mind. I have seen some strong comments. And I think Scottish courts can be particularly strict on that? Or is that just me stereotyping Scottish authorities? I hope not!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/lawyers-warn-social-media-users-3040334

There's been a huge clampdown here on misuse of social media in the wake of false allegations regarding Lord McAlpine (who coincidentally passed away last week, RIP). A number of prominent figures tweeted indirectly and directly about these allegations and had to cough up substantial amounts of money in damages. So I imagine the police are keeping a very close eye on social media activity (two have already been arrested and bailed for making racist comments on social media in this case.)

 

[wallaby]

I am open as to the death. I believe he was ill and kept off nursery especially if he was taking the two days a week version but was on the mend.

I don't disagree, but I don't think they offer 'two days a week' at Flora Stevenson. As far as I am aware it's just morning or afternoon (and 3 year olds don't get morning spaces).

 

[zwiebel]

I was shocked anyone was stupid enough to make such tweets. Passions are so high in this case. I think they are under police protection now.....wasn't there a case a while ago where someone did something similar and actually had to be arrested for their own protection?

O/T Thinking of my dog dating made me google it and good heavens - there ARE dog dating websites!!

 

[Iplem]

<snip> I was shocked anyone was stupid enough to make such tweets. <snip>

I know, but there's one thing that never fails to amaze - the stupidity of the general public!

 

[mrsward]

sky news :

shes arrived im court, should be seen around 2pm
we will then learn the details of those charges

 

[zwiebel]

I don't disagree, but I don't think they offer 'two days a week' at Flora Stevenson. As far as I am aware it's just morning or afternoon (and 3 year olds don't get morning spaces).

Children there have a special team supporting them today it says at the bottom of the link. There was a long piece I heard on the radio about this - 'how much do you tell your children when cases like this are in the headlines?' was the question asked. Beats me. I wouldn't have a clue how to explain these things to little ones.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25803667

 

[wallaby]

I don't even think you have to be a bad parent for that sort of dichotomy to be established. I bet my neighbour would describe me as nice but harried, leading to speculation that I was struggling with the new family addition. I'm not, but she only sees us as I hurry the children to school and hope they won't be late, because their natural sleeping habits aren't compatible with school times no matter what I do. I'm sure there are people who have witnessed my middle child's tantrums and suspect I'm some sort of abusive monster, because she'll scream "You're hurting me!" even if you're barely touching her, in the hopes you'll let go and she can run off/refuse to move/win the argument. Sorry darling, I'd rather "hurt" you then let you run into oncoming traffic. The teachers at school would likely say we're a loving and involved family, with kids who are always happy and confident. Three views, all validated by personal observation but not painting the complete picture.

I have a neighbour who will tell you bad things about every single person all the way around our cul de sac. She delights in gossip and most of it is untrue. I got to the point where I just don't speak to her because I said to my husband 'if she's saying that about everybody else I'm sure she talks bad about us too!' And I hear she apparently HAS said unkind things about us and my son (who's on the autistic spectrum) etc. All the people on our street know she's a right old so and so but she'd give GREAT quotes to the press about anyone on the street. I always take 'neighbour' quotes with a pinch of salt because I know lots of streets have nasty old busybodies like our neighbour.

 

[marlywings]

It appears from reports about her having a mobile beauty business that she does drive and her instagram pics show some of the kids in a car fitted with a child seat.

Have there been many cases where women have transported victims to burial sites or do they usually try to use sites near to where their crimes happened?

Just bringing above post over from previous thread as I didn't get a chance to reply to it back there.


One of our Aussie cases from back in 2010. Little Kiesha Weippeart. Her mother put her dead daughter in a suitcase, left her for days in their unit before catching a taxi to bushland. The suitcase was put into a shallow grave & burnt. Horrific case!!

You'd only need to read the first few posts of following thread to see similarities. Then read the following reports

Australia - Kiesha Weippeart (Abraham), 6, Sydney, 31 July 2010 - #1 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-jailed-16-years/story-e6frg6nf-1226681255875

http://murderpedia.org/female.A/a/abrahams-kristi.htm

 

[mrsward]

Just bringing above post over from previous thread as I didn't get a chance to reply to it back there.


One of our Aussie cases from back in 2010. Little Kiesha Weippeart. Her mother put her dead daughter in a suitcase, left her for days in their unit before catching a taxi to bushland. The suitcase was put into a shallow grave & burnt. Horrific case!!

You'd only need to read the first few posts of following thread to see similarities. Then read the following reports

Australia - Kiesha Weippeart (Abraham), 6, Sydney, 31 July 2010 - #1 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-jailed-16-years/story-e6frg6nf-1226681255875

http://murderpedia.org/female.A/a/abrahams-kristi.htm

i think we'll learn something similiar happened..i have a feeling shes put him in a suitcase .. im not even sure shes buried him as its in full view of peoples back windows ..i think shes gone in the early hrs of the morning ,left kiddies in bed .put him in the boot of the car and left him in the woods...

 

[Inge Jones]

Children there have a special team supporting them today it says at the bottom of the link. There was a long piece I heard on the radio about this - 'how much do you tell your children when cases like this are in the headlines?' was the question asked. Beats me. I wouldn't have a clue how to explain these things to little ones.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25803667

When I was a kid we were not allowed to listen to the adult news broadcasts, we had special childrens newsreels without the more horrid stuff in. Also adults never discussed things like murder in front of children, they'd send us out of the room if something like that needed discussing. I think I was about 12 before I was considered old enough to stay in the room and hear the words "murder" or "cancer" spoken

 

[Iplem]

I'm now curious about the pic posted <snip> 14th January about 'breathing'. Very ironic if it was coincidence and a completely bizarre thing to do if he was already dead at that point.

I must admit, my jaw dropped at that, it gave me major narcissism/weird guilt vibes.

JMO.

 

[Fairynuff]

This 'lawyers warn' story appears to be a little hyped ( it's just one lawyer, who I suspect is often asked to comment on cases), but it is maybe something people running FB etc for Mikaeel should bear in mind. I have seen some strong comments. And I think Scottish courts can be particularly strict on that? Or is that just me stereotyping Scottish authorities? I hope not!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/lawyers-warn-social-media-users-3040334

i've always been very careful in what i say online. i read a lot of cases here on sleuths but don't comment because of this very fact.

but i will comment in the beginning of a case i.e. on page about 9 when the little boy was still missing i said to look at home because he didn't go "missing" just because etc and so forth. i had very strong feelings about this case and voiced it in the beginning while everyone still believed otherwise.

 

[Inge Jones]

i had very strong feelings about this case and voiced it in the beginning while everyone still believed otherwise.

I thought right from the time I read that night Mikaeel had "been allowed to" sleep alone that the mother would end up being charged. 3 year olds don't sleep alone for the first time on the very night they're ill. If anything they'd have someone with them that night even if they usually sleep alone! And they very certainly don't ask if they can be allowed to sleep alone.

 

[zwiebel]

The second post down has a link to click to a timeline now. That is going to need a few changes in future, in my opinion.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/live-mikaeel-kulars-mother-due-3040106

 

[SnoopyDoobyDoo]

I thought right from the time I read that night Mikaeel had "been allowed to" sleep alone that the mother would end up being charged. 3 year olds don't sleep alone for the first time on the very night they're ill. If anything they'd have someone with them that night even if they usually sleep alone! And they very certainly don't ask if they can be allowed to sleep alone.

I think it's a moot point in this case, but the ONLY time my daughter wants to sleep alone is if she's ill. She's been like that since she could talk. Would rather sleep with a parent or sibling most days (she's rarely allowed), but if she's sick she holes up and yells "Go away mama!" if I fuss at her. I don't think that there is anything in this world that can be held universally true for kids that age, except that they all desire and deserve our love and protection. Poor Mikaeel didn't get that..