Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #18

[sunshineray]

Given the statement that they are searching in the area Nicola went missing, then I suspect the Coroner has concluded she took her own life but that he/she want to understand how it took 23 days for the body to be found given the resources thrown at the search.

But from what people have said the water there isn't really deeper than chest deep. How does one drown themselves in water that shallow? Just take a big gulp? Wouldn't your body's involuntary will to expel the water kick in, especially since you can touch bottom with your head above the water?

I also think NB probably would have gone there by herself, not with Willow, is she was planning to kill herself. I think she loved that doggie and knew her kids loved that doggie and would never have left her unattended to possibly get lost, hurt or snatched. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

The original activity in the river was focused on searching to find Nicola.

IMO, this more recent activity will be more along the lines of assessing how a body moves in the water, whether it could be carried over the weir, where it could have become snagged and hidden, which locations on the riverbank could be a possible location of entry into the water, etc. Exactly the sort of thing a coroner would want to know when considering the likelihood of different scenarios.

It won't necessarily help them figure out what *did* happen (I, too, feel it's likely to be an open verdict) but it can help rule out things that couldn't have happened.

Should some of this have been done earlier? Maybe. But hindsight is 20/20.

Were they maybe waiting on toxicology results to come back? I know here in the States that can take longer than a month, sometimes several.

 

[sunshineray]

Sorry you are correct in that they are carrying out on assessment on the riverbanks in the vicinity she went missing. The general point still stands though, the area being searched is not in the vicinity of the bench and is much further downstream, from which we can only conclude she left the area of the field/bench after tying up Willow and walked downstream. These actions don't point towards an accident sadly.
To me this would make a lot more sense than the original hypothesis of accident at the bench as it explains the following:
1 Why someone very familiar with a dangerous stretch of water would fall in
2 Why her pet dog was "Bone dry"
3 Why the people finding Willow and phoned phone heard or saw nothing despite only arriving 13 minutes later
4 Why there was nothing from Nicola on the teams call and it continued on her phone after it finished

It also explains a couple of other earlier statements from the Police I found strange at the time.
They initially wanted information on her movements between 9.10 and 9.20, which I found strange given the accident was around the bench which had to be after 9.20.
The second thing (I'm not 100 per cent on this) is they asked for footage on Garstang Lane from 9.10 after previously indicating she was in the top field then.

This is all my opiniin/interpretation of the wording in the statement, but to me sadly it explains away all the oddities about the accident at the bench.
I so hope I'm wrong on this and it's found to be an accident, my sister took her own life just over 3 years age and what this does to families is truly awful.

RIP Nicola

It almost seems like they thought she could have been pursued or followed from that upper field area. Wasn't her phone found on the ground? And I thought Willow was found loose and then tied to the bench by passersby?

 

[pineapple23]

It almost seems like they thought she could have been pursued or followed from that upper field area. Wasn't her phone found on the ground? And I thought Willow was found loose and then tied to the bench by passersby?

In which case wouldn't they be conducting a murder investigation? I thought it was just between misadventure and suicide by this stage. Or are all options still on the table?

 

[sunshineray]

In which case wouldn't they be conducting a murder investigation? I thought it was just between misadventure and suicide by this stage. Or are all options still on the table?

Good questions. I can't understand why a cause of death hasn't been established/announced yet. Would they not let the public know yet in UK if NB died from drowning? If they would have done that already then something else seems to be in play?

 

[ginnyw]

From the CPS website: An inquest will be held if the cause of death remains unknown after the initial examination, or there is reason to suspect the death was violent or unnatural, or the deceased died in prison. I guess if they recently had divers back in the river they are accumulating more information for the inquest to be held in June. So they wouldn't release any info to the general public before then.

 

[Cuko]

Good questions. I can't understand why a cause of death hasn't been established/announced yet. Would they not let the public know yet in UK if NB died from drowning? If they would have done that already then something else seems to be in play?

Even if they‘ve established that Nicola drowned (and we don’t yet know if they HAVE established that), they would then have to try to establish whether that drowning was the result of accident or suicide. I suspect that may be what is taking time to confirm.
If Nicola did indeed drown, there’s a distinct possibility they may never be able to establish whether it was accidental or intentional. I hope for the family’s sake they can do so. JMO

 

[abovethestorm]

Even if they‘ve established that Nicola drowned (and we don’t yet know if they HAVE established that), they would then have to try to establish whether that drowning was the result of accident or suicide. I suspect that may be what is taking time to confirm.
If Nicola did indeed drown, there’s a distinct possibility they may never be able to establish whether it was accidental or intentional. I hope for the family’s sake they can do so. JMO

OR a third possibility - that she was pushed during an altercation. Sadly, I think there is little to no chance of that being provable, either. IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

Even if they‘ve established that Nicola drowned (and we don’t yet know if they HAVE established that), they would then have to try to establish whether that drowning was the result of accident or suicide. I suspect that may be what is taking time to confirm.
If Nicola did indeed drown, there’s a distinct possibility they may never be able to establish whether it was accidental or intentional. I hope for the family’s sake they can do so. JMO

I agree but would add one more method it could be...accident, suicide or foul play. JMO

 

[Nikynoo]

But from what people have said the water there isn't really deeper than chest deep. How does one drown themselves in water that shallow? Just take a big gulp? Wouldn't your body's involuntary will to expel the water kick in, especially since you can touch bottom with your head above the water?

I also think NB probably would have gone there by herself, not with Willow, is she was planning to kill herself. I think she loved that doggie and knew her kids loved that doggie and would never have left her unattended to possibly get lost, hurt or snatched. AJMO

If you watch the video up thread, you can see that depth varies widely (from knee to chest height). From what I could tell, it seems to be shallower in the middle and much deeper around the edges.

 

[Sjöberg]

But from what people have said the water there isn't really deeper than chest deep. How does one drown themselves in water that shallow? Just take a big gulp? Wouldn't your body's involuntary will to expel the water kick in, especially since you can touch bottom with your head above the water?

I also think NB probably would have gone there by herself, not with Willow, is she was planning to kill herself. I think she loved that doggie and knew her kids loved that doggie and would never have left her unattended to possibly get lost, hurt or snatched. AJMO

It does not mean than NB did not love Willow if she left her behind alone while going on to commit suicide. I assume you have never really been suicidal. It is not a state where you are logical and not a state in which you make cute statements like that. If you are suicidal, you are often "on the edge" for months. And then some random trigger can push you over the edge. Random, unimportant stuff like some work problem. Because often you put up a happy face for weeks and months and maybe even years and then one day comes the straw that breaks the camels back. And everyone goes "wtf, no way, so sudden" - until they find out that the person has been googleing suicide methods for months.

I have no idea if it was suicide or accident and maybe even some very unlikely foul play. But I hate it when people say that it was not a suicide, because "she would not do that to her kids/husband/dog/anyone" or that "if you want to kill yourself you'd take some lessons and get a gun licence and buy a gun and then go stand next to the mourge in the morning and shoot your brains out, not drown yourself in shallow water during a meeting". Because that's just naive or victim-blaming.

 

[WAWAW]

OR a third possibility - that she was pushed during an altercation. Sadly, I think there is little to no chance of that being provable, either. IMO.

It could be provable but I suspect its been established this wasn't the case.
If fitbit data has been retrieved and this shows last steps and breath at 9.20 then likely an accident. If last step and breath was 9.50 then she's most likely taken her own life. If 9.33 ish for both then most likely some altercation has occurred and then it's a case of establishing what happened to the body before it was returned to the river.
I don't think this is the case and that the police have already established it.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Has it ever been clarified that NB was found wearing her fitbit and the fitbit was transmitting data?

Also I wonder how detailed someone's mobile phone movements are to show that they were genuinely participating in their usual walking style?

 

[WAWAW]

OR a third possibility - that she was pushed during an altercation. Sadly, I think there is little to no chance of that being provable, either. IMO.

It could be provable but I suspect its been established this wasn't the case.
If fitbit data has been retrieved and this shows last steps and breath at 9.20 then likely an accident. If last step and breath was 9.50 then she's most likely taken her own life. If 9.33 ish for both then most likely some altercation has occurred and then it's a case of establishing what happened to the body before it was returned to the river.
I don't think this is the case and that the police have already established it.

Has it ever been clarified that NB was found wearing her fitbit and the fitbit was transmitting data?

Also I wonder how detailed someone's mobile phone movements are to show that they were genuinely participating in their usual walking style?

The Police have given out very little specific details (which is probably correct) and to my knowledge haven't confirmed one way or the other if it was attached to her.
I think they have got it and my reasoning for thinking this is two fold.
1 if they don't have it and genuinely want to give an accurate time of death then surely they'd ask the public to look out for it
2 the latest statement is quite specific in saying they are assessing the riverbank in the area she went missing. This does beg the question how do they know she went missing there if they have no cctv and the only thing I can think of is data from something

 

[kittythehare]

But from what people have said the water there isn't really deeper than chest deep. How does one drown themselves in water that shallow? Just take a big gulp? Wouldn't your body's involuntary will to expel the water kick in, especially since you can touch bottom with your head above the water?

I also think NB probably would have gone there by herself, not with Willow, is she was planning to kill herself. I think she loved that doggie and knew her kids loved that doggie and would never have left her unattended to possibly get lost, hurt or snatched. AJMO

One can drown oneself in extremely shallow water, only submerging one's head.

 

[Seattle1]

One can drown oneself in extremely shallow water, only submerging one's head.

I've no doubt I too would drown if ever I slipped or fell (or jumped) off the bank-- given I've never been in any natural body of water in my life and where I don't think I could save myself.

But I agree @kittythehare -- I could just as easily drown in my tiled, clean, wading pool.

 

[sunshineray]

It does not mean than NB did not love Willow if she left her behind alone while going on to commit suicide. I assume you have never really been suicidal. It is not a state where you are logical and not a state in which you make cute statements like that. If you are suicidal, you are often "on the edge" for months. And then some random trigger can push you over the edge. Random, unimportant stuff like some work problem. Because often you put up a happy face for weeks and months and maybe even years and then one day comes the straw that breaks the camels back. And everyone goes "wtf, no way, so sudden" - until they find out that the person has been googleing suicide methods for months.

I have no idea if it was suicide or accident and maybe even some very unlikely foul play. But I hate it when people say that it was not a suicide, because "she would not do that to her kids/husband/dog/anyone" or that "if you want to kill yourself you'd take some lessons and get a gun licence and buy a gun and then go stand next to the mourge in the morning and shoot your brains out, not drown yourself in shallow water during a meeting". Because that's just naive or victim-blaming.

I'm very sorry what I said trigger you so, that was not my intention, ever. Lots of people have had suicide touch their lives. There are as many different methods, frame of mind and reactions as there are sad individuals. With what we don't know, theorizing is all we can do until the reports are completed. None of these theories, being mentioned in the meantime, are in any way victim-blaming nor naive. They're just very tragic, every one. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

DBM

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I often have wondered about evidence LE has that Nicola and Willow were walking in the upper field before they moved nearer the river and to the bench where her phone was found logged in to a work call and they think she then disappeared.

And that they have been able to narrow down any gaps in timing during which she could have disappeared well before arriving at the bench, or even before that.

I'm not questioning witness accounts, if that is the main evidence that puts them in the upper field.

Just that if she was seen from afar in one locale (upper field), and then not ever seen again but "apparently" arrived at another locale (bench close to river) within less than 1/2 hour... that leaves room, in my mind, for something to have happened to her along the way to the bench, especially if no one was around to witness the path they took and their arrival safely at the bench.

IF it was not an accidental fall into the river and it was foul play (not entertaining the possibility of suicide since there is no evidence she was suicidal at the time, IMO), someone (or more than 1 person acting together) could have disabled her between the upper field and bench, and taken Willow on leash and Nicola's phone down to the bench and staged it to make it look like she went into the river there "accidentally" or otherwise.

Then they could have forced her under threat (with a weapon and 'frog marched' her to another location if conscious) or smuggled her off (carried her if unconscious), with no one the wiser, especially if no one was around to witness her being accosted.

And then whatever happened between there and 1 mile downstream where her body was found over 3 weeks later, well, it's anybody's guess, IMO, especially if no one was around to witness where Nicola and Willow were and what happened to them after they left the upper field.

This is all speculation, of course, but until LE has completed their investigation and the results of the coroner's inquest are finalized (if that's the correct term), I will continue to harbor doubts about the theory that she went into the river below the bench and drowned.

Thinking of Nicola every day ("bumping for her" ), and eagerly awaiting any answers on what may have happened to her from LE, for her loved ones to have some closure, as trite as that may sound.

MOO and JMHO

 

[Cuko]

I cannot shake the feeling that the welfare visit to Nicola’s home a week or so before she went missing was in some way connected, or relevant, to the events (specific details of which we don’t yet know) which subsequently unfolded. Does anyone else have this feeling, or am I way off the mark? JMO