UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #13

[Tortoise]

It could be like that but it’s a poor angle from mr Myers to say something that is quite literally baseless.

probably just the fire the prosecution lit for itself with baby the couple of prior cases. It’s not holding up IMO.

What is the defence case for baby N?

I'm not aware of an alternative, more likely, explanation that was presented to the prosecution experts. His two bleeds did not happen spontaneously according to Professor Kinsey.

 

[ColourPurple]

What is the defence case for baby N?

I'm not aware of an alternative, more likely, explanation that was presented to the prosecution experts. His two bleeds did not happen spontaneously according to Professor Kinsey.

The only one so far seems to be them suggesting that the initial intubation caused the bleeding, rather than the bleeding being noticed during the intubation.

 

[Tortoise]

The only one so far seems to be them suggesting that the initial intubation caused the bleeding, rather than the bleeding being noticed during the intubation.

few quotes

"The doctor tells the court that on that morning he took the decision to intubate Child N and put him onto a ventilator. He recalls seeing 'unusual' swelling and blood in the back of the baby boy's throat

Myers is asking the doctor when he saw the blood in Child N's throat. He said 'I believe blood was there at insertion attempt number one' Myers puts it to him that 'if you can't see, you wouldn't attempt it?' He replies:'You can do, if quite certain of position'

Mr Myers has just quoted the doctor's police statement from 2018. In this he says he was 'not sure' if the bleeding was his 'fault' due to his attempts to move the tongue with a medical implement to intubate"

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

"Prosecutor Simon Driver asked: “ What did you notice first?”

The doctor replied: “I think I will have seen the blood first because that is such an unusual thing to see at the time of intubation.”

He said he could not see where the blood was coming from or what had caused the swelling.

The doctor told Ben Myers KC, defending, that he had told police in 2018 that he was not sure if he had “inadvertently” caused the bleed during the procedure."

‘Unusual' presence of blood in throat of baby ‘attacked by nurse', court told

 

[Dotta]

There were 3 alleged attacks, no?

 

[Tortoise]

There were 3 alleged attacks, no?

yes, one on 3rd June and two on 15th June.

the first alleged attack when baby screamed and oxygen levels dropped I believe the defence case is that baby was hungry, according to opening speech.

 

[JosieJo]

Lucy Letby trial: Medic denies 'touting' to work with police

A medic has denied "touting" for the job of assisting a police probe into baby deaths and "giving them what they wanted", the murder trial of Lucy Letby heard.

www.shropshirestar.com

 

[Sundial]

Interesting turn of events today with BM and DE, I’m not quite sure what to think regarding that email BM has dug out; but imo whilst we could debate back and forth about DE invested interest or not, it does not rule out the views of other medical testimonies and that specifically also of DrB which I feel so far have been quite telling.

Whilst I understand it is necessary to be absolutely certain of guilt or innocence, and the questions as posed by BE are so valid and relevant to a fair trial; I must wonder, how he is going to explain that “note” in more detail as written by LL.

In his opening speech of something around the lines of “she had wrote it in a place of anguish”, yet despite all the testimonies and medical evidence thus far, however invested someone is or isn’t (and I’ve also struggled to keep up with baby and case at times), it will be very interesting to hear from the defence after the cases of O,P and Q.
JMO

 

[JosieJo]

On Tuesday, jurors were read an email sent by Dr Evans to the National Crime Agency (NCA) in May 2017, ahead of his involvement with Cheshire Police.
In his message to "Nick" at the NCA's national injuries database, Dr Evans wrote: "Incidentally I've read about the high rate of babies in Chester and that the police are investigating.
"Do they have a paediatric/neonatal contact? I was involved in neonatal medicine for 30 years including leading the intensive care set-up in Swansea. I've also prepared numerous neonatal cases where clinical negligence was alleged.
"If the Chester police had no-one in mind I'd be interested to help. Sounds like my kind of case.

Ben Myers KC, defending, said to Dr Evans: "This is you putting yourself forward. In effect, touting for this job."

"My opinions are impartial and independent.

"I also give evidence to law firms representing defendants. In the last five years I have given more reports relating to defendants than the police or the prosecution."


Dr Evans replied: "I was offering my professional opinion if that was in their interest."

Lucy Letby trial: Medic denies 'touting' to work with police

A medic has denied "touting" for the job of assisting a police probe into baby deaths and "giving them what they wanted", the murder trial of Lucy Letby heard.

www.shropshirestar.com

 

[DianaWW]

The ‘sounds like my kind of case’ doesn’t sound quite as bad when you see the entire message IMO. Context is so important, and it’s a real shame we’re not getting very much of that at the moment. JMO.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Exactly - the phrase has been cherry picked by reporters from the whole conversation for click bait.

 

[Sundial]

On Tuesday, jurors were read an email sent by Dr Evans to the National Crime Agency (NCA) in May 2017, ahead of his involvement with Cheshire Police.
In his message to "Nick" at the NCA's national injuries database, Dr Evans wrote: "Incidentally I've read about the high rate of babies in Chester and that the police are investigating.
"Do they have a paediatric/neonatal contact? I was involved in neonatal medicine for 30 years including leading the intensive care set-up in Swansea. I've also prepared numerous neonatal cases where clinical negligence was alleged.
"If the Chester police had no-one in mind I'd be interested to help. Sounds like my kind of case.

Ben Myers KC, defending, said to Dr Evans: "This is you putting yourself forward. In effect, touting for this job."

"My opinions are impartial and independent.

"I also give evidence to law firms representing defendants. In the last five years I have given more reports relating to defendants than the police or the prosecution."


Dr Evans replied: "I was offering my professional opinion if that was in their interest."

Lucy Letby trial: Medic denies 'touting' to work with police

A medic has denied "touting" for the job of assisting a police probe into baby deaths and "giving them what they wanted", the murder trial of Lucy Letby heard.

www.shropshirestar.com

Just my opinion (and whilst BM may have a fair point too); however he became to be involved in the analysis of the cases- it could also presents as outlining his professional expertise. I guess if he had very little professional knowledge the defence could also ask *why* he is suitable for the position with a lack of knowledge.
We’ve already heard the defence state previously of someone (I can’t recall who) that had been out of practice etc. If DE specialised in for example, say, elderly care, they would have the potential to ask why he is the right fit with a lack of neonatal knowledge.

I get that presenting this email may not look good on one hand; but on the other- it’s also highlighted DE knowledge, speciality and vast experience imo.

 

[DianaWW]

Also, in his message, Dr Evans says he has experience in neonatal cases where ‘clinical negligence’ is alleged. Which definitely doesn’t suggest he was biased in any way and purposely looking for deliberate harm. If anything, quite the opposite IMO.

 

[Dotta]

Just my opinion (and whilst BM may have a fair point too); however he became to be involved in the analysis of the cases- it could also presents as outlining his professional expertise. I guess if he had very little professional knowledge the defence could also ask *why* he is suitable for the position with a lack of knowledge.
We’ve already heard the defence state previously of someone (I can’t recall who) that had been out of practice etc. If DE specialised in for example, say, elderly care, they would have the potential to ask why he is the right fit with a lack of neonatal knowledge.

I get that presenting this email may not look good on one hand; but on the other- it’s also highlighted DE knowledge, speciality and vast experience imo.

Of course.
Knowledge, experience and speciality.

Oh, and I would add Doc's sense of humour:
His "wild goose chase..." riposte to BM made me spit my coffee with laughter.
Well done

JMO

 

[Sundial]

Also, in his message, Dr Evans says he has experience in neonatal cases where ‘clinical negligence’ is alleged. Which definitely doesn’t suggest he was biased in any way and purposely looking for deliberate harm. I’d anything, quite the opposite IMO.

If I’ve read correctly; he suggested he has also worked for defence cases?
This equally could suggest that by working in
clinical negligence cases also supports the view to actually rule out any foul play aswell.
JMO

 

[WaxLyrical]

Also, in his message, Dr Evans says he has experience in neonatal cases where ‘clinical negligence’ is alleged. Which definitely doesn’t suggest he was biased in any way and purposely looking for deliberate harm. If anything, quite the opposite IMO.

Agree, if anything he was looking out for clinical negligence, not a serial killer. JMO.

I’m annoyed by the reporting and the press focusing on this, particularly where there are other medical experts testifying the same as Dr E. I was really hoping to hear more about the haemophilia today.

 

[Jazmania]

Tbh the NCA wouldn’t need to ask him to give them what they wanted if they knew he was prone to finding pote criminal activity anyway.

Well apparently more of his work has tended to be for defence cases. So this argument doesn't hold up. In other words, he's more used to finding that no criminal activity has taken place

 

[bbsaz]

The triplets case is one of the cases I am particularly interested in, but equally somewhat dreading. Ive thought from the start that there is an angle here with multiple births IMO. The feeling of dread is because I feel it is going to be particularly distressing

 

[Dotta]

The triplets case is one of the cases I am particularly interested in, but equally somewhat dreading. Ive thought from the start that there is an angle here with multiple births IMO. The feeling of dread is because I feel it is going to be particularly distressing

Out of these triplets 2 died.
1 child was was left with no siblings

 

[katydid23]

It's the comment about

It's the comment he made about how how he wrote the report, though.

" ....and said it was written with knowledge of previous babies in this case."

That tends to suggest that the previous babies he looked at throughout this case might be having some bearing, possibly one which brings him to the same conclusion, on this one. Clearly it is in his mind as he said it was.

Would he have arrived at the same conclusions had he not examined the other cases? That is a pertinent question to ask, surely?

He wouldn't have the job doing these investigative reports if he hadn't examined other cases though.

Are you going to hire someone who never had any experience with other deceased babies?

 

[katydid23]

If it’s “his kind of case” that suggests he has a preference, does that mean he likes cases involving possible criminal behaviour? Thus is actively looking for cases like those?

Where does it say that it means he 'likes' cases with criminal involvement?

His expertise is in investigating causes of deaths in neonates. Not specifically in criminal causes.