UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #13

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katydid23 said:
SUSPECTED baby-killer Lucy Letby insisted an infant stayed in her care hours before he died, her trial heard yesterday.The claim came from fellow nurse Melanie Taylor, who said she had a “gut instinct” the child might be deteriorating.

qzqnews.com

Lucy Letby trial: Parents of sole surviving triplet 'begged' for newborn transfer after her brothers' deaths

Chester, United Kingdom: The parents of a newborn triplet pleaded with medical staff to move Lucy Letby, a nurse, to a separate facility after she killed her
qzqnews.com qzqnews.com

‘No way is he staying in this hospital’​

Triplett’s father spoke to detectives in an emotional video interview that was played for the jury. The father said, “The transport team struggled with Baby P for probably 10 to 15 minutes. He died shortly after they arrived, there was nothing more they could do. We begged them to take him while they were there. (The boy survived).”

He added, “We said ‘there is no way he can stay in this hospital, you have to take him, otherwise we will take him ourselves’ but obviously he was too young. They agreed to take him.” The court was told that Letby allegedly brought the two dead babies, who were on special cold beds, to meet their parents before transferring their son. Dad said, “I’m pretty sure it was Lucy Letby who took those two boys to us in the cold box. I’m sure it was her, 110%.”

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I don't think it was the hospital itself the parents were freaking out about.

LL was the designated nurse for both babies, and was their primary hands on nurse. I feel like they were desperate to get their surviving son away from that room and that caretaker before their only son met the same fate.
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I don't think they were necessarily thinking of LL as a threat - apart from anything else, the 3rd baby was in another room. They just wanted to be out of CoC.
 
Tortoise said:
There is also the matter of the observations for child O which the prosecution says were factually false.

opening speech -
"Letby had taken Child O's observations at 2.30pm as 100% oxygen saturations and normal breathing rates.
From her phone, she was on Facebook Messenger at the time, and at 2.39pm, the door entry system recorded her coming into the neonatal unit.
Within a few minutes of that, Child O suffered his first collapse."


Court continuing to be shown sequencing evidence for the case of Child O (these included prescriptions, door swipe data, messages between Ms Letby and others etc)
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

A doctor notes: 'Called to see [Child O] at [about] 1440. Desaturation, bradycardia and mottled. Bagged up and transferred to Nursery 1. Neopuff requirement in 100% oxygen...'
Letby records: 'Approx 1440 [Child O] had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended...'
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, March 8


She was writing up her notes retrospectively after the end of her shift that night.

In police interview, Letby said [...] She responded first at 2.40pm and discovered mottling all over with purple blotches and red rash. She said that his abdomen just kept swelling and suggested that sometimes babies can gulp air when they are receiving assistance from Optiflow, as Child O was.
Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders
Click to expand...

So is the prosecution's suggested timeline of events that she was not on the ward at 2.30pm and was actually somewhere else chatting on Messenger. Only came back onto the ward at 2.39pm (door swipe data), then wrote on the observation chart that his sats had been 100% at 2.30pm (when she wasnt even there then). Then did something to him to send him into a desat and sent out a crash call at around 2.40?

It's a tight timeline but similar to the 3 minute time period between Baby K's nurse leaving and LL being found standing there as Baby K's sats were falling (and Baby N desating within around 5 minutes of their designated nurse going on break)

Do we know where the student nurse was at this time?.

All IMO
 
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Tortoise said:
There is also the matter of the observations for child O which the prosecution says were factually false.

opening speech -
"Letby had taken Child O's observations at 2.30pm as 100% oxygen saturations and normal breathing rates.
From her phone, she was on Facebook Messenger at the time, and at 2.39pm, the door entry system recorded her coming into the neonatal unit.
Within a few minutes of that, Child O suffered his first collapse."


Court continuing to be shown sequencing evidence for the case of Child O (these included prescriptions, door swipe data, messages between Ms Letby and others etc)
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

A doctor notes: 'Called to see [Child O] at [about] 1440. Desaturation, bradycardia and mottled. Bagged up and transferred to Nursery 1. Neopuff requirement in 100% oxygen...'
Letby records: 'Approx 1440 [Child O] had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended...'
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, March 8


She was writing up her notes retrospectively after the end of her shift that night.

In police interview, Letby said [...] She responded first at 2.40pm and discovered mottling all over with purple blotches and red rash. She said that his abdomen just kept swelling and suggested that sometimes babies can gulp air when they are receiving assistance from Optiflow, as Child O was.
Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders
Click to expand...
OK, let me understand this^^^ about prosecution saying she wrote some false notes.

At 2:30 LL wrote that Baby O had 100% oxygen saturations and normal breathing rates.[ while her phone shows she was on FaceBook messenger at that same time and had not used the door swipe to enter yet?]

9 minutes later, @ 2:39 pm, door entry system shows her entering Neo-natal unit.

A few minutes later, at about 2:40 pm or so, LL wrote that BabyO 'had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended'...'

At the same time a doctor notes: 'Called to see [Child O] at [about] 1440. Desaturation, bradycardia and mottled. Bagged up and transferred to Nursery 1. Neopuff requirement in 100% oxygen...


SO WHAT SHE WROTE AT 2:30, ABOUT BABY O HAVING 100% OXYGEN SATURATION AND NORMAL BREATHING RATES WAS PROBABLY NOT TRUE?
 
katydid23 said:
OK, let me understand this^^^ about prosecution saying she wrote some false notes.

At 2:30 LL wrote that Baby O had 100% oxygen saturations and normal breathing rates.[ while her phone shows she was on FaceBook messenger at that same time and had not used the door swipe to enter yet?]

9 minutes later, @ 2:39 pm, door entry system shows her entering Neo-natal unit.

A few minutes later, at about 2:40 pm or so, LL wrote that BabyO 'had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended'...'

At the same time a doctor notes: 'Called to see [Child O] at [about] 1440. Desaturation, bradycardia and mottled. Bagged up and transferred to Nursery 1. Neopuff requirement in 100% oxygen...


SO WHAT SHE WROTE AT 2:30, ABOUT BABY O HAVING 100% OXYGEN SATURATION AND NORMAL BREATHING RATES WAS PROBABLY NOT TRUE?
Click to expand...
Think we were typing our posts at the same time lol . But yes it looks like they're suggesting that she wasn't on the ward at 2.30pm to have been able to record his oxygen levels at that time.
 
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katydid23 said:
OK, let me understand this^^^ about prosecution saying she wrote some false notes.

At 2:30 LL wrote that Baby O had 100% oxygen saturations and normal breathing rates.[ while her phone shows she was on FaceBook messenger at that same time and had not used the door swipe to enter yet?]

9 minutes later, @ 2:39 pm, door entry system shows her entering Neo-natal unit.

A few minutes later, at about 2:40 pm or so, LL wrote that BabyO 'had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended'...'

At the same time a doctor notes: 'Called to see [Child O] at [about] 1440. Desaturation, bradycardia and mottled. Bagged up and transferred to Nursery 1. Neopuff requirement in 100% oxygen...


SO WHAT SHE WROTE AT 2:30, ABOUT BABY O HAVING 100% OXYGEN SATURATION AND NORMAL BREATHING RATES WAS PROBABLY NOT TRUE?
Click to expand...
I don't see the significance of this? Presumably we don't know when she went out of the unit. She could easily have done the obs then popped out for a few minutes. Or am I missing something?
 
marynnu said:
I don't see the significance of this? Presumably we don't know when she went out of the unit. She could easily have done the obs then popped out for a few minutes. Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

It's signifcant if she was not on the ward at 2.30pm. But as you say if it could be shown that she was, and had left after 2.30pm then returned at 2.39pm it wouldn't be IMO. Not sure they would even be mentioning it though if that were the case.

all IMO
 
marynnu said:
I don't see the significance of this? Presumably we don't know when she went out of the unit. She could easily have done the obs then popped out for a few minutes. Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
I thought the significance was that LL observed that "Baby O had 100% oxygen saturations and normal breathing rates."

But just 9 minutes later, as she enters the unit, she observes that he is in distress and calls the doctor because " BabyO 'had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended'...'"

Was it really true that he had 100% saturation and normal breathing just minutes earlier? And was she even in the unit at the time?
 
ColourPurple said:
Yes,in their position you just would not be thinking "Did somebdy deliberately kill my babies?"

al IMO
Click to expand...
I don't know. After the first death, no, of course not.
But then the 2nd happens just as suddenly, with no warning and no explanation. I think it might have crossed their minds at that point. ?????
 
katydid23 said:
I don't know. After the first death, no, of course not.
But then the 2nd happens just as suddenly, with no warning and no explanation. I think it might have crossed their minds at that point. ?????
Click to expand...
I still can't imagine their minds going there at that point. Would be interesting to know what they think now though
 
katydid23 said:
OK, let me understand this^^^ about prosecution saying she wrote some false notes.

At 2:30 LL wrote that Baby O had 100% oxygen saturations and normal breathing rates.[ while her phone shows she was on FaceBook messenger at that same time and had not used the door swipe to enter yet?]

9 minutes later, @ 2:39 pm, door entry system shows her entering Neo-natal unit.

A few minutes later, at about 2:40 pm or so, LL wrote that BabyO 'had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended'...'

At the same time a doctor notes: 'Called to see [Child O] at [about] 1440. Desaturation, bradycardia and mottled. Bagged up and transferred to Nursery 1. Neopuff requirement in 100% oxygen...


SO WHAT SHE WROTE AT 2:30, ABOUT BABY O HAVING 100% OXYGEN SATURATION AND NORMAL BREATHING RATES WAS PROBABLY NOT TRUE?
Click to expand...
I don't see the significance of this? Presumably we don't know when she went out of the unit. She could easily have done the obs then popped out for a few minutes. Or am I missing something?
 
So...

The nurse who wanted to put the Baby to Room1 b/c she was worried about him was reported to be a SHIFT LEADER, right?

Can a nurse, even a designated one, oppose?

Besides, why a doctor wasn't called to check on the child?

I really don't understand the things happening in this unit :rolleyes:

Isn't a shift leader nurse a kind of "boss" to other nurses?

Why do I have a feeling LL behaved as if she were a Consultant?
Throwing her weight around?

JMO
 
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When this finishes, the aftermath is going to be about so much more than her. It's going to be shining spotlights on what has been ordinary practice in her hospitals and others.
 
ColourPurple said:
So is the prosecution's suggested timeline of events that she was not on the ward at 2.30pm and was actually somewhere else chatting on Messenger. Only came back onto the ward at 2.39pm (door swipe data), then wrote on the observation chart that his sats had been 100% at 2.30pm (when she wasnt even there then). Then did something to him to send him into a desat and sent out a crash call at around 2.40?

It's a tight timeline but similar to the 3 minute time period between Baby K's nurse leaving and LL being found standing there as Baby K's sats were falling (and Baby N desating within around 5 minutes of their designated nurse going on break)

Do we know where the student nurse was at this time?.

All IMO
Click to expand...
It seems to be their case that she created these observations later that evening when she stayed late to write up her notes. At 2.30pm she was messaging (? possibly until 2.39pm when she came back into the unit but I don't know because times and messages haven't been reported).

This was from Sky news, opening speeches, where prosecution claims she wrote up the observations after child O's death, only I think they've mistakenly written child P instead of child O. The time of the 6pm feed referred to was on the date child O had died.

"In a police interview, Letby admitted feeding Child P alone at 6pm, the day before his death.
The prosecution claims she then made "factually false" entries in Child P's medical records to cover herself - with phone records showing she was texting at the time she claimed to have been making observations."
Lucy Letby trial - latest: Nurse 'adamant' she's done nothing to harm any of the babies in the case as defence begins
 
katydid23 said:
I thought the significance was that LL observed that "Baby O had 100% oxygen saturations and normal breathing rates."

But just 9 minutes later, as she enters the unit, she observes that he is in distress and calls the doctor because " BabyO 'had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended'...'"

Was it really true that he had 100% saturation and normal breathing just minutes earlier? And was she even in the unit at the time?
Click to expand...
Think the implication is that he had already sustained liver injury before that collapse, and shift-leader had already noticed she didn't think he was as well at around midday, then he'd vomited at 1.15pm and been taken off milk feeds, put on antibiotics as a precaution, and had an x-ray, and so his observations wouldn't have been so good at that time around 10 minutes before he collapsed.

It said in opening speeches LL was alone with him in room 2 when she called for help but it doesn't say where the student nurse was. Presumably they took their lunch breaks at the same time?

JMO
 
Ms Taylor went on: “With hindsight, I wish I had been a bit firmer. I remember being put out that she was quite insistent. I think because I felt she was undermining my decision.

“She said ‘no’. Quite plainly ‘no, I don’t feel like he should be moved’.

“I don’t think from me it was ‘he needs to be moved now’. It was more of a feeling than any hard evidence. I had a gut instinct he didn’t seem as well.”

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/20...ndermined-by-murder-accused-letby-court-hears
 
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