UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #14

[ColourPurple]

I'm

I'm not sure of the date, but I don't think she looked after any patients after Baby Q?

I think she had a couple more shifts.

 

[bbsaz]

Was it the 29th she was finally moved to clerical duties? So the executive still didn't take any immediate action even when Baby Q collapsed the next day. I'm assuming that's when the group of doctors demanded something be done.

I thought the 29th was when the consultants had a meeting, then Dr J when home and read an article about AE and shivers ran down his spine

 

[marynnu]

I think she had a couple more shifts.
[/QUOTE

Did she? Goodness, what must those conversations have been like!

 

[ColourPurple]

I thought the 29th was when the consultants had a meeting, then Dr J when home and read an article about AE and shivers ran down his spine

Could be. For some reason I've got the 29th and 30th in my head. Maybe it was the datix reports I'm thinking of.

 

[Dotta]

He was told 'no' and that 'there was no evidence', the exec was 'happy to take responsibility' for Ms Letby continuing

"Happy to take responsibility"

This time has come IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
11m

Dr Brearey told the court that "further conversations" took place the following week and the decision was taken to remove Ms Letby from frontline nursing duties - instead placing her in a clerical role.

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
10m

Ben Myers KC, defending, noted that Dr Brearey had first "identified" Ms Letby as someone of interest as early as June 2015 after the death of the first three babies in this case.

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
10m

Dr Brearey had noted, with colleagues, that Ms Letby was present when those three children died in 2015.

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
11m

Mr Myers put it to the doctor that he was guilty of "confirmation bias" towards Ms Letby and failed to look at "suboptimal care" given to the children in this case.

"Absolutely not", he said.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

JMO but literally suboptimal care is the FIRST thing that anyone thinks about when something unexpected happens or a resuscitation doesn't go as expected. Debriefs after resus are a standard part of care and the purpose is to say, "hey, what did we do well, and what could we do better next time?" Part of the debrief includes maintaining a nonjudgmental/just culture environment to allow for total honesty and the greatest improvement.

Literally no one jumps straight to, "Yeah my coworker is deliberately harming babies." No one. JMO.

 

[Tortoise]

It's not confirmation bias when the pattern continues.

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

I think she had a couple more shifts.

I thought the 29th was when the consultants had a meeting, then Dr J when home and read an article about AE and shivers ran down his spine

They didn't specify which days she worked the following week after child Q's collapse on the Saturday. We know consultants met on Weds 29th and Dr J emailed them the following day, Thu 30th. She submitted the Datix report on 30th.

Other than three days the following week, that was the last time Lucy Letby worked in the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital, the court is told.
Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement

 

[Cardgame]

JMO but literally suboptimal care is the FIRST thing that anyone thinks about when something unexpected happens or a resuscitation doesn't go as expected. Debriefs after resus are a standard part of care and the purpose is to say, "hey, what did we do well, and what could we do better next time?" Part of the debrief includes maintaining a nonjudgmental/just culture environment to allow for total honesty and the greatest improvement.

Literally no one jumps straight to, "Yeah my coworker is deliberately harming babies." No one. JMO.

This is what I don't understand. There was an external review about the standards of care, wasn't there? And when they found nothing that could explain the deaths, that's when they initiated a police investigation.

Why is the defence going down these lines when there's already been evidence to disprove that suboptimal care is responsible?

 

[Cardgame]

Following Child P’s death she said, Letby was “extremely upset and emotional”.
The boys’ mother added: “She was in pieces, almost as upset as we were.”

Parents of triplets ‘begged for baby to be moved to new hospital after brothers died’

He said he asked how she was feeling and 'can remember suggesting to her to take the weekend off to recover' 'She didn’t seem overly upset to me in the debrief and told me at the time she was on shift next day which was a Saturday'
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Could there be a clue in this about her possible psychology, if guilty?

Very upset only in front of the parents? Perhaps wanting to 'share' or 'feed off' their suffering?

edited by me, i was being insensitive.

 

[ColourPurple]

They didn't specify which days she worked the following week after child Q's collapse on the Saturday. We know consultants met on Weds 29th and Dr J emailed them the following day, Thu 30th. She submitted the Datix report on 30th.

Other than three days the following week, that was the last time Lucy Letby worked in the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital, the court is told.
Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement

Ah so yup she worked another three shifts, after Baby Q's collapse.

 

[Sundial]

"Happy to take responsibility"

This time has come IMO

The fact they were already aware of concerns and he raised it again after 2 deaths of the triplets and they said this is absolutely staggering imo. These poor families

 

[ColourPurple]

Could there be a clue in this about her possible psychology, if guilty?

Very upset only in front of the parents? Perhaps wanting to 'share' or 'feed off' their suffering?

I think, if guilty, the tears were possibly for the benefit of Dr NiceGuy. Who was also at that resus. She made references to "blubbering" in front of him, in their texts later that evening.

All IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Could there be a clue in this about her possible psychology, if guilty?

Very upset only in front of the parents? Perhaps wanting to 'share' or 'feed off' their suffering?

edited by me, i was being insensitive.

It could be a form of manipulation too. JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

This is what I don't understand. There was an external review about the standards of care, wasn't there? And when they found nothing that could explain the deaths, that's when they initiated a police investigation.

Why is the defence going down these lines when there's already been evidence to disprove that suboptimal care is responsible?

They have to cover every angle. And better they do so now, and that way, if guilty, there's a better chance that any conviction will be watertight.

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
9m

Mr Myers put it to Dr Brearey that if there was a basis for his suspicions, he would have gone to the police. Dr Brearey said he and his colleagues were trying to "escalate appropriately" and needed "executive support" to decide the "correct plan of action going forward".

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
9m

Dr Brearey added: "It's not something anyone wanted to consider, that a member of staff is harming babies. The senior nursing staff on the unit didn't believe this could be true."

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
9m

Dr Brearey said with every "unusual" episode of baby collapse between June 2015 and June 2016 there was "increasing suspicion" about Ms Letby, which led him to eventually escalate his concerns and request she be taken off shift.

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
6m

A doctor, who cannot be named for legal reasons, is now in the witness box. She is recalling the events of June 23 - when Child O collapsed several times and eventually died

 

[ColourPurple]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
9m

Mr Myers put it to Dr Brearey that if there was a basis for his suspicions, he would have gone to the police. Dr Brearey said he and his colleagues were trying to "escalate appropriately" and needed "executive support" to decide the "correct plan of action going forward".

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
9m

Dr Brearey added: "It's not something anyone wanted to consider, that a member of staff is harming babies. The senior nursing staff on the unit didn't believe this could be true."

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
9m

Dr Brearey said with every "unusual" episode of baby collapse between June 2015 and June 2016 there was "increasing suspicion" about Ms Letby, which led him to eventually escalate his concerns and request she be taken off shift.

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
6m

A doctor, who cannot be named for legal reasons, is now in the witness box. She is recalling the events of June 23 - when Child O collapsed several times and eventually died

So on one hand he's suggesting his suspicions were unfounded and based on nothing more than confirmation bias... but on the other hand he's asking why he didn't go to the police.

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
4m

The doctor said she was 'shocked' by the appearance and deterioration of Child O on June 23. She tells the court she had seen him the previous day and was 'progressing very well'

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
4m

When she saw the boy shortly before 4pm, she said she remembers him 'just being lifeless and mottled' and thinking 'what has happened'. She said it was 'completely unexpected'

 

[Dotta]

Could there be a clue in this about her possible psychology, if guilty?

Very upset only in front of the parents? Perhaps wanting to 'share' or 'feed off' their suffering?

edited by me, i was being insensitive.

"Mirroring" IMO