UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #14

[Sundial]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
9m

Mr Myers put it to Dr Brearey that if there was a basis for his suspicions, he would have gone to the police. Dr Brearey said he and his colleagues were trying to "escalate appropriately" and needed "executive support" to decide the "correct plan of action going forward".

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
9m

Dr Brearey added: "It's not something anyone wanted to consider, that a member of staff is harming babies. The senior nursing staff on the unit didn't believe this could be true."

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
9m

Dr Brearey said with every "unusual" episode of baby collapse between June 2015 and June 2016 there was "increasing suspicion" about Ms Letby, which led him to eventually escalate his concerns and request she be taken off shift.

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
6m

A doctor, who cannot be named for legal reasons, is now in the witness box. She is recalling the events of June 23 - when Child O collapsed several times and eventually died

I just find this so outrageous that despite how many times and concerns they raised, senior staff continued to look the other way until the DOCTOR had to request her be taken off shifts rather than senior members of staff.. whatever happened to “safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility”

I really hope management will be called upon to explain further. Such an unnecessary loss of lives. How heartbreaking for these families and, the wider public, hearing this could have been avoided.
MOO

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

"When she saw the boy shortly before 4pm, she said she remembers him 'just being lifeless and mottled' and thinking 'what has happened'. She said it was 'completely unexpected'"

This reminds me of the testimony for... Baby B or C, I think? Where one of the nurses said, "Oh no, not again." These impressions are telling, IMO.

 

[Sweeper2000]

it is interesting that with every unusual collapse and event suspicion about ll grew. What’s even more unusual is that in that environment dr j who is the only person to have seen LL doing anything potentially unusual didn’t report it. baby k is fairly late on in the charges and if after every event suspicions grew and dr j still didn’t report it, I don’t know what to think really. If he had reported it would the senior staff have taken a different angle.

I can kind of see now how if ll was keeping her eye out for any rumours of suspicions she wouldn’t have let on as it seems the entire unit was none the wiser about what cou have been happening.

 

[Sundial]

it is interesting that with every unusual collapse and event suspicion about ll grew. What’s even more unusual is that in that environment dr j who is the only person to have seen LL doing anything potentially unusual didn’t report it. baby k is fairly late on in the charges and if after every event suspicions grew and dr j still didn’t report it, I don’t know what to think really. If he had reported it would the senior staff have taken a different angle.

I can kind of see now how if ll was keeping her eye out for any rumours of suspicions she wouldn’t have let on as it seems the entire unit was none the wiser about what cou have been happening.

But we don’t necessarily know that as of yet, we (surely) are to hear from management and senior nursing exec what they reported to them.
JMO

 

[Dotta]

I just find this so outrageous that despite how many times and concerns they raised, senior staff continued to look the other way until the DOCTOR had to request her be taken off shifts rather than senior members of staff.. whatever happened to “safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility”

I really hope management will be called upon to explain further. Such an unnecessary loss of lives. How heartbreaking for these families and, the wider public, hearing this could have been avoided.
MOO

"Sweeping under the rug" never bodes well.

"In a crisis, don’t hide behind anything or anybody. They’re going to find you anyway.”

Bear Bryant

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
13m

The doctor said she wondered whether the cause of Child O's collapse had been to do with his heart. She asked Dr Brearey, who specialised in cardiac medicine, whether he should have an echocardiogram - he felt one wasn't required

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
8m

The medic is now recalling Child O's final and fatal collapse. She tells the court 'whatever we gave him was having no effect', she adds this was 'not something I’d seen happen so suddenly in a baby'

 

[Sweeper2000]

But we don’t necessarily know that as of yet, we (surely) are to hear from management and senior nursing exec what they reported to them.
JMO

it’s not that I think. I don’t think they reported her for anything because they didn’t really have anything to report. They probably spoke to senior staff but did not. Raise it to an official level. Hence the senior staffs response of “no evidence“. you can’t really do anything when people come to you and say “we think this person did this” it’s just a suspicion aand without evidence or questionable behaviour the seniors would be without reason to act. Probably deemed just a rumour and thus not really something to act on. If dr j reported that they might have been able to actually do something sooner.

that goes without a informal conversation between senior staff and LL. to me without a doubt someone should have spoken with her, not necessarily accused her but enquired if she was confident in her job and is sure she is doing everything as trained. They couldn’t be accused of anything for having a chat at all.

 

[Tortoise]

it is interesting that with every unusual collapse and event suspicion about ll grew. What’s even more unusual is that in that environment dr j who is the only person to have seen LL doing anything potentially unusual didn’t report it. baby k is fairly late on in the charges and if after every event suspicions grew and dr j still didn’t report it, I don’t know what to think really. If he had reported it would the senior staff have taken a different angle.

I can kind of see now how if ll was keeping her eye out for any rumours of suspicions she wouldn’t have let on as it seems the entire unit was none the wiser about what cou have been happening.

He did report it.

Dr Jayaram said the team told the senior director of nursing in autumn 2015 but nothing was done. He said it was raised again in February 2016, and the hospital’s medical director was told at this point. The doctors asked for a meeting but didn’t hear back for another 3 months.
https://twitter.com/JudithMoritz

 

[Dotta]

At the time of challenge there was spectacular failure.

Not everybody is fit for purpose.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

He did report it.

Dr Jayaram said the team told the senior director of nursing in autumn 2015 but nothing was done. He said it was raised again in February 2016, and the hospital’s medical director was told at this point. The doctors asked for a meeting but didn’t hear back for another 3 months.
https://twitter.com/JudithMoritz

You see I wouldn’t say reporting something is the same as telling someone something or in this context expressing concern. I’m talking about filing a report, something official not just saying things. All in all I think this is where the “no evidence“ bit comes in.

who was it who told the med director and do we know exactly what was said? I couldn’t envision it being senior staff and is close to the line of being official imo.

 

[Sweeper2000]

If you were to put yourself in their shoes exactly what would you report to the senior staff?

at best you could say “we think she did this or that” then asked “why” what would your response be?

couldn’t be anything stronger in reply than “suspicions” at this point and that’s where you come a cropper.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I find it very curious if what this doctor said is true that suspicion increased after every unusual event and after a death autopsies were not requested. I would have expected more of them in that environment. We also know there was a process involved for Autopsies when a unexpected death happens (child A) so how is it that the other ones didn’t get an autopsy? I know a doc apologised for not requesting one but that’s two out of seven.

 

[Cardgame]

If you were to put yourself in their shoes exactly what would you report to the senior staff?

at best you could say “we think she did this or that” then asked “why” what would your response be?

couldn’t be anything stronger in reply than “suspicions” at this point and that’s where you come a cropper.

This is why the accusation that they should have gone to the police annoys me too.

The police aren't going to come rushing down to the hospital to arrest someone because of some intangible, 'gut feeling' suspicions.

It's a highly complex situation and it took a long time to work out what was happening. As with all of these cases, there probably does need to be 'learning' but at the same time, if guilty, then the perpetrator is the one responsible, and predatory perps will always find a way to get around systems in order to carry out misdeeds. Not saying someone shouldn't have done something sooner, but this is human nature: good people don't want to think the worst. Bad people take advantage of that fact.

 

[Cardgame]

I find it very curious if what this doctor said is true that suspicion increased after every unusual event and after a death autopsies were not requested. I would have expected more of them in that environment. We also know there was a process involved for Autopsies when a unexpected death happens (child A) so how is it that the other ones didn’t get an autopsy? I know a doc apologised for not requesting one but that’s two out of seven.

Maybe because there is already so much distress for the parents, and it would be very distressing to put them through this, so they would err on the side of not doing it whenever possible. JMO. Medical folks might correct me.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Maybe because there is already so much distress for the parents, and it would be very distressing to put them through this, so they would err on the side of not doing it whenever possible. JMO. Medical folks might correct me.

you will always be asked why you are accusing someone of something or are suspicious, if you don’t have a solid reason or it rests on “she’s always around when it happens“ your concerns will most likely be dismissed.


i believe child a had an autopsy because the death was “unexpected“. how does baby A’s death differ from any other? Regardless of request from the parents.

from the clinical staff I could see how they wouldn’t necessarily attach any suspicion to the deaths close To the time of passing and it would be in retrospect that anything odd would be discussed perhaps too late at that point for an autopsy. That doesn’t explain how one deaths is classed as “unexpected“ and another isn’t though.

I believe if it is unexpected then the parents might not get a say in autopsy or not?

 

[Tortoise]

Dr Brearey told the court that the death of the brothers was "distressing for those involved and deeply so with me".

He said: "All three triplets were born in such good condition, they were following a healthy path to growing and developing and hopefully going home."

Dr Brearey told jurors that Child O's collapse came "out of the blue" and observed that in the hours before his death there had been an "unusual" rash on his chest. He said this was something he had not "seen before or since". [...]

Dr Brearey said he called Karen Rees, the duty executive senior nurse, to report his concerns and explained that he "didn't want nurse Letby to come back to work the following day or until all this was investigated properly".

Dr Brearey said Ms Rees "said no" and told him "there was no evidence" for his claims.

Lucy Letby: Doctor asked for nurse to be taken off shift - court

 

[Legal]

I'd forgotten about the baby dying on the day of his/ her 100th day celebration and the one on the due date. I find these events very suspicious and if guilty shows incredible cruelty.

 

[Dotta]

Dr Brearey said he called Karen Rees, the duty executive senior nurse, to report his concerns and explained that he "didn't want nurse Letby to come back to work the following day or until all this was investigated properly".

Dr Brearey said Ms Rees "said no" and told him "there was no evidence" for his claims.

Lucy Letby: Doctor asked for nurse to be taken off shift - court

Will this Ms Karen R be called as a witness?
I hope so.

 

[Tortoise]

I find it very curious if what this doctor said is true that suspicion increased after every unusual event and after a death autopsies were not requested. I would have expected more of them in that environment. We also know there was a process involved for Autopsies when a unexpected death happens (child A) so how is it that the other ones didn’t get an autopsy? I know a doc apologised for not requesting one but that’s two out of seven.

Which babies are you referring to that didn't have autopsies?

 

[Tortoise]

I'd forgotten about the baby dying on the day of his/ her 100th day celebration and the one on the due date. I find these events very suspicious and if guilty shows incredible cruelty.

Those were collapses, and baby G survived, albeit with severe disabilities