UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

[marynnu]

No, NOT touching them or giving them to patients. But she could reorder supplies through the system they have set up. There is no way she could harm anyone doing that.

Ordering meds is a tiny part of the nursing role, as the vast majority are stocked up by pharmacy. To order anything out of the ordinary, or which for some reason was running low, she'd have to liaise with the unit - unlikely!

 

[katydid23]

Whatever
More time for texting.

Thank goodness this trial is slowly coming to an end.

Could we in WS's "Jury Room" organize a poll "G/NG/Not sure?

But I think only when real Jury will be deliberating, no?

I don't think we could do a poll, that would be against the spirit of subjudice for sure.

 

[Dotta]

I don't think we could do a poll, that would be against the spirit of subjudice for sure.

Geez!!!!!
I meant When Real Jury Will Be Deliberating!!!

The last sentence in my previous post

 

[katydid23]

Ordering meds is a tiny part of the nursing role, as the vast majority are stocked up by pharmacy. To order anything out of the ordinary, or which for some reason was running low, she'd have to liaise with the unit - unlikely!

What kind of clerical duties could they have given to her? They'd have to try and keep her busy somehow without letting her have patient contact or close public contact even?

 

[marynnu]

What kind of clerical duties could they have given to her? They'd have to try and keep her busy somehow without letting her have patient contact or close public contact even?

Not much, in my view. I've only seen this on 3 occasions (one was me!) and obviously those staff still worked on the unit. Someone would have to train her.
Clerical work is not in most nurses' skill set!

 

[Sweeper2000]

Just been thinking about dr Marnerides testimony. I’m interested to know about the samples reviewed by himself.

“The medic said upon reviewing tissue samples from Child A, who the Crown alleged was murdered by Ms Letby in June 2015 via air injection, he found "globules" in the lungs and brain tissue that were most likely air.”

Lucy Letby: Baby suffered devastating internal injury, court hears

Nurse Lucy Letby is accused of killing the infant on her return from a week's holiday in Ibiza.

www.bbc.co.uk

if I remember correctly child a had a clinical description as close to that papers description of the symptoms of AE as any. Was the only one that described “ florid skin colour changes“ Maybe for evidence sake child a also has something that I can’t quite figure out if it’s hard evidence or not. Remember dr bohin stating there is no ssingle test for AE but will this suffice?

im surprised as well because I would have expected a more detailed description of why that can be expected after AE. However I’m not sure if there was more detail only that it wasn’t reported.

 

[Dotta]

So
Will there be a day solely dedicated to "digital forensics"?

Like:
All FB/Google searches, texts while on "clerical duties", etc?

Google searches might be interesting.

 

[Marantz4250b]

So
Will there be a day solely dedicated to "digital forensics"?

Like:
All FB/Google searches, texts while on "clerical duties", etc?

Google searches might be interesting.

I would guess that they've pretty much done all that sort of stuff during the presentation of the evidence relating to each alleged victim. I'm not sure what else might be relevant which they would not have presented in relation to each specific alleged offence.

 

[Anxala]

Dan O'Donoghue

Court now won't be sitting publicly as there's a juror ill. Lawyers still in court for legal argument. Potentially back tomorrow

Do they not have a bank of spare jurors? Ones that can step up in the case of illness? I'm sure I read that they had stand-bys back in the mists of time on an earlier thread? And most particularly in cases where trials exceed 2 months or so.

 

[Tortoise]

Do they not have a bank of spare jurors? Ones that can step up in the case of illness? I'm sure I read that they had stand-bys back in the mists of time on an earlier thread? And most particularly in cases where trials exceed 2 months or so.

No, once the evidence starts there is only the jury of 12. The spares are discharged after opening speech.

 

[Anxala]

In the week following the collapse of Child Q, Ms Letby was removed from frontline nursing duties and given a clerical role - in which she remained until she was arrested by Cheshire Police. She denies all charges against her.

RSBM

I'm so very intrigued to know how this move was managed ie. What reason was given for it by Mgt and, crucially, what was LL's response to it?

If guilty, would she really have been ok with accepting a clerical role? Surely she'd know the game was up and the walls were closing in and that she'd be the object of daily scrutiny by her colleagues?

If innocent, would she really have been ok with accepting a clerical role? Surely she'd have raged against the decision and taken leave while she got her union on the case?

The fact she remained in this clerical role until she was arrested gives me serious (albeit baffling) pause for thought.

 

[Anxala]

No, once the evidence starts there is only the jury of 12. The spares are discharged after opening speech.

I know I'm coming at it from a subjective and frustrated 'get on with it, for god's sake' angle but still, that really doesn't seem like a very practical approach or good use of people's time in a trial expected to last for 6 months or more.

When you think about all the random things that life throws up that can impact upon jury members (illness, family issues, family deaths, juror deaths even!) it seems so inefficient to not have back-up in place to fill in for these very real eventualities.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I could have sworn there was something about replacements in the case of an original juror having a good reason to not be able to continue serving.

 

[Tortoise]

I think the more jurors there are, whether they are on the main jury or in an alternate jury pool, the greater the number of times during a long trial there will be pauses every time one of them needs to be absent. They would all need to hear every piece of evidence to be able to fill in for deliberations. If every time there was an absence they got rid of that juror, we would probably be below the minimum number of jurors required for a verdict by now, even with alternates. In the case of a juror not being able to return there are provisions in the law which allow less than 12 to continue to the end, so an alternate pool is not needed in our court system, and could end up causing more delays. IMO

 

[Tortoise]

I could have sworn there was something about replacements in the case of an original juror having a good reason to not be able to continue serving.

yes one of the jurors was discharged and one of the alternates took their place, at the end of opening speech.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think the more jurors there are, whether they are on the main jury or in an alternate jury pool, the greater the number of times during a long trial there will be pauses every time one of them needs to be absent. They would all need to hear every piece of evidence to be able to fill in for deliberations. If every time there was an absence they got rid of that juror, we would probably be below the minimum number of jurors required for a verdict by now, even with alternates. In the case of a juror not being able to return there are provisions in the law which allow less than 12 to continue to the end, so an alternate pool is not needed in our court system, and could end up causing more delays. IMO

Interesting. Strange question I know but I’m wondering when that dynamic was made in law if you know? Trying to place the modern law system into a time perhaps centuries ago when maybe these laws weren’t a thing is fascinating. Same as the notion of a juror made verdict. Can’t think that was a thing in the times of barons and lords. For instance I highly doubt that king Henry the eighth had his Wives beheaded after a jury with integrity found them guilty.

 

[marynnu]

I know I'm coming at it from a subjective and frustrated 'get on with it, for god's sake' angle but still, that really doesn't seem like a very practical approach or good use of people's time in a trial expected to last for 6 months or more.

When you think about all the random things that life throws that can impact jury members (illness, family issues, family deaths, juror deaths even!) it seems so inefficient to not have back-up in place to fill in.

The problem is, all the back-up jurors would need to have heard all the evidence too!

 

[Tortoise]

RSBM


The fact she remained in this clerical role until she was arrested gives me serious (albeit baffling) pause for thought.

I'm waiting to hear the evidence on this. So far I don't think it's been stated by anyone in court that she remained in a clerical role for two years until her arrest, but I could have missed it. The reporter said it, but he hasn't attributed those words to anyone in court, afaik.

 

[Anxala]

The problem is, all the back-up jurors would need to have heard all the evidence too!

But couldn't they just have been provided with the same daily info the jurors are provided with so they were kept up to speed and ready to step in should the need arise? It seems to me that would be a far more efficient way to conduct/manage a trial like this one.

 

[katydid23]

The problem is, all the back-up jurors would need to have heard all the evidence too!

That's what we do with our alternates. We have 16 jurors listening to all of the evidence. If one gets sick or has family emergency, they are released. At the end of the evidence portion, when it is time to deliberate, they pull numbers out of a hat to release any 'extra' jurors left over.

The remaining 12 jurors deliberate. So all of the jurors hear all of the evidence throughout the trial but are not released until the end. No one knows who is going to be deliberating until the final days.