UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

[JosieJo]

If there was doubt as to whether the illness was genuine, I imagine the defendant could be held in contempt of court if they kept refusing to resume testimony .

If we are talking full on mental breakdown meaning that they are now unfit to stand trial , I think the judge then sends them off to inpatient psychiatric hospital for treatment until such time as they are better .

It must be a very difficult decision to assess the genuineness of the situation and presumably in a first instance like this the judge has to air on the side of caution

 

[ColourPurple]

If this school teacher is then bought to the stand then it may show that LL is illustrating some level of thinking ahead. Why were these people important to LL and what is their relevance to this investigation would be my question.
It's not as though the notes in question were relating to anything other than LLs thought process surrounding a particular set of events.

Bit random but I was wondering if maybe it was written on one of the occasions where she said she was feeling suicidal, and whether she was listing people who she'd want to be mentioned at, or invited to, her funeral. JMO

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

It must be a very difficult decision to assess the genuineness of the situation and presumably in a first instance like this the judge has to air on the side of caution

I’m genuinely not sure what would happen because it seems you would reach a stalemate.

If the defendant refused to get back on the stand, they get told off and held in contempt of court, which results in them being sent back to jail. But they can’t just stay in jail forever with the trial still halfway through, so I don’t know what else would be available to the judge in terms of a stick to obtain compliance from a defendant.

I suppose you could make her go back on the stand and then just let the prosecution finish asking its questions, she refuses to answer at all, so the prosecution just carries on through its questions in much the same way as a police interview carries on through the same set of questions, even though the detainee says “no comment”.

But then I don’t think they physically manhandle defendants who refuse to attend court into the court room, so I assume they wouldn’t do it for a defendant who refuses to return to the witness box.

Maybe they have to just accept that she won’t finish giving evidence, and the judge makes some sort of comment to the jury to the effect that they can decide to take her refusal to return to the witness box into consideration, and as evidence against her when they deliberate?

 

[WaxLyrical]

I’m genuinely not sure what would happen because it seems you would reach a stalemate.

If the defendant refused to get back on the stand, they get told off and held in contempt of court, which results in them being sent back to jail. But they can’t just stay in jail forever with the trial still halfway through, so I don’t know what else would be available to the judge in terms of a stick to obtain compliance from a defendant.

I suppose you could make her go back on the stand and then just let the prosecution finish asking its questions, she refuses to answer at all, so the prosecution just carries on through its questions in much the same way as a police interview carries on through the same set of questions, even though the detainee says “no comment”.

But then I don’t think they physically manhandle defendants who refuse to attend court into the court room, so I assume they wouldn’t do it for a defendant who refuses to return to the witness box.

Maybe they have to just accept that she won’t finish giving evidence, and the judge makes some sort of comment to the jury to the effect that they can decide to take her refusal to return to the witness box into consideration, and as evidence against her when they deliberate?

I wonder whether the jury would be instructed to disregard all of her testimony if she didn’t allow the cross examination to be concluded?

 

[la patrick777]

Nurses in England, is it now common practice to return to work, after your shift, to complete notes??

 

[JosieJo]

Nurses in England, is it now common practice to return to work, after your shift, to complete notes??

I've never done it

 

[JosieJo]

Regarding the accidental phone Call to the parent...I'm not sure what happens in all hospitals but where I worked you would phone switchboard and ask them to page the on call consultant as at night they were at home. The consultant would then call the ward ...its "possible" the phone rang and the nurse gave it to the Dr thinking it was the Consultant but it may have been parents ringing...especially as during the middle of the night as not many calls come in.
This is JMO

 

[Sundial]

Nurses in England, is it now common practice to return to work, after your shift, to complete notes??

Personally, no. If anything the shift can become extended slightly to finish notes off. But I’ve never known any colleague I’ve worked with to return to work after shift to complete notes. Most that I’ve worked with (myself included AND including those who would have been the same age as ll/no other commitments/children etc), usually just can’t wait to get home after shift or
enjoy their days off. Ive even heard people say things such as “can’t wait to get away from the place” etc, even having to do training days on your days off is the biggest gripe amongst many!!
In my experience.

 

[Becky53]

A murder-accused nurse has told jurors mistakes by colleagues led to the death of one of her alleged victims.
Lucy Letby said a delay in giving antibiotics to the newborn girl's mother after her waters broke early "may have had an impact".
Ms Letby is accused of administering air to the infant via an intravenous line while she worked at the Countess of Chester Hospital.

Lucy Letby trial: Nurse says colleagues' mistakes led to baby's death

Murder-accused Lucy Letby says a delay in administering antibiotics "may have had an impact".

www.bbc.co.uk

BBC write up

 

[Enquirer-2019]

Yes I agree ... I also wonder if certain nurses didn't entertain her "pity party" personality.
I also wonder if the fact she had just completed the ICU course gave her illusions of superiority or unrealistic expectations of being treated differently

Emotional expression is considered a healthy form of emotional regulation. Thus, it is socially damaging to deem that attention seeking. If LL was not so capable of expressing herself .. I doubt she would still be here today with everything she has experienced in recent years.

 

[Enquirer-2019]

Colleagues and supervisors did, at one time, think highly of her. But as more and more unexplained collapses began to happen in her presence, a contingent of doctors began to demand she be taken off the floor.

I don't think Meyers will be able to paint the prosecution as petty or desperate. I think the prosecution has already shown the defendant to be petty and sometimes desperate while working on the unit. JMO

I don't believe that Johnson is coming off as petty. He seems to be delving into some very important issues and asking some very relevant questions. JMO

There is no evidence that her immediate colleagues considered her unprofessional- from what I have read she was a highly valued and liked colleague. The doctors who began the Chinese whispers all kicked off after she stated to a nurse she was considering a datex (i.e., Dr G d/t baby left on table & monitor not switched back on).

When she text - Dad on floor - I am pondering wether she was referring to the clinical floor…? I have noted how some nurses use this term when, for example sat at the nurses station, or in the break room. E.g., ‘The managers are on the floor… I best get back…’

 

[Tortoise]

As the barrister prepared to question her about Baby E, Letby asked: 'Can I have a break please?'

The trial judge, Mr Justice Goss, agreed and adjourned the court for lunch. When the jury returned the judge told them the case would not now resume until Wednesday. The adjournment was for reasons that should not concern them, he said.

Alleged killer nurse Lucy Letby told pal about baby death on WhatsApp

The 33-year-old nurse is accused of murdering five boys and two girls and trying to kill ten others at the Countess of Chester Hospital from June 2015 to June 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[la patrick777]

"Letby said she took the note home deliberately to bring it back the following day for finishing up writing of medications."

I'm unsure of the context behind this, but surely you don't leave the ward without correctly documenting medication??

 

[Dotta]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
9m

Lucy Letby enters the witness box at Manchester Crown Court for the seventh time today. Nick Johnson KC will continue his cross examination of the nurse, who is alleged to have murdered seven babies and attempted to murder 10 others at the Countess of Chester Hospital

View attachment 423315

Phew!
What an intimidating figure Mr Nick J KC seems to be!

Doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly

JMO

 

[JosieJo]

Emotional expression is considered a healthy form of emotional regulation. Thus, it is socially damaging to deem that attention seeking. If LL was not so capable of expressing herself .. I doubt she would still be here today with everything

Well her constant "emotional expression" was obviously too much for some of her colleagues...even her closest of friends got irritated it seems
Maybe she should have expressed her emotions in a more formal setting as quite a few of her colleagues suggested

 

[Anxala]

I had a feeling they would finish early for the day after she asked for an earlier break. Could be totally off but I'd bet they're linked somehow.

Could be, she may well have felt too drained and unwell and unable to continue in any meaningful manner.

Regardless of where we all stand, she's still innocent until proven otherwise. The level of pressure and stress she's under must be intense, to put it mildly, so it's not really surprising that it might all have gotten a bit too much for her.

That's of course, if LL ill-health was the reason for the early finish.

Just viewing her, while I can, through a human lens rather than a guilty one.

 

[Dotta]

Dbm

 

[Tortoise]

The doctors who began the Chinese whispers all kicked off after she stated to a nurse she was considering a datex (i.e., Dr G d/t baby left on table & monitor not switched back on).

RSBM

There is no evidence that LL stated this to a nurse. Only LL's word, when the nurse concerned has not testified to that. There is also no evidence other than LL's claim, that she found baby G in that state.

The date consultants elevated their concerns to the director of nursing didn't coincide with baby G's collapse either. You might say everything that happened in terms of escalating concerns and initiating an external review of the deaths and LL ultimately being removed from the ward happened after that point, but there is nothing in the evidence linking them to the date of baby G's collapse.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I feel today's early termination might have been brewing even during the first morning break, reading about her demeanour when they resumed -

Posted at 11:5711:57

Prosecution resumes questioning about baby D​

Judith Moritz
Inside the courtroom
The court is resuming. The judge is in place, Lucy Letby is back in the witness box, and the jury are in. Nick Johnson KC is back on his feet, continuing to ask the nurse about baby D.
Johnson tells Letby that he's been told to keep his voice up, as the proceedings are being beamed to other courtrooms.
He asks her if she'll say if she finds it intimidating, as that's not intended. Very quietly, she replies: "Yes."
Letby is speaking very quietly. She's not looking at Johnson, who's standing at a right angle to her. Instead she's looking straight ahead of her, towards the jury.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65602988

 

[grj373]

So as we now have a break till Wednesday what are the thoughts after this week's cross examination. Listening to the initial parts of the trial I wasn't convinced she was guilty, beyond reasonable doubt. However, after hearing the cross examination I'm falling the other way. Is that similar with others.

Perhaps a classic example of "self snitching" as Bruce rivers would say on his YouTube channel. I feel she would have been better to have not taken the stand.