UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

[Dcflag]

There is no evidence that Dr G ever left a baby on the table or left the monitor off. The only witness to that was Nurse Letby.

The Chinese whispers were not started because of a threatened datex---the talk started because babies were collapsing at an alarming rate.

Did a nurse not get an apology from him (that he himself doesn’t recall)

 

[Sweeper2000]

There is no evidence that Dr G ever left a baby on the table or left the monitor off. The only witness to that was Nurse Letby.

The Chinese whispers were not started because of a threatened datex---the talk started because babies were collapsing at an alarming rate.

Except that he apologised for it. Then eventually denied he would do that.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Anyone seen this? Looks so upset.

View attachment 423383

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65602988?fbclid=IwAR1UqQKGqPjxMlGAJhYDwQTU4JtLX2fB-8r4giOgJRxHZcu5f6g4NN8hpJ8

I know you can’t really expect a perfect likeness from a court artist, but jeez, I feel like it’s a different woman on every sketch!

 

[Enquirer-2019]

I agree. But it is so hard for me to imagine how a doctor would make that mistake and call a grieving mum instead of a consultant on call.

Were their last names similar?

Surely, Doctors just like nurses and the rest of the global population, are also vulnerable to human errors E.g., oversights, STM (short-term-memory) lapses, cognitive bias’s etc.

 

[notsure]

true, have edited it.

Tried to delete mine, but can't

 

[Sweeper2000]

I know you can’t really expect a perfect likeness from a court artist, but jeez, I feel like it’s a different woman on every sketch!

Yet Mr Johnson remains the same lol

I think the artist is focused on her expressions at certain points.

 

[Popcorn80]

Surely, Doctors just like nurses and the rest of the global population, are also vulnerable to human errors E.g., oversights, STM (short-term-memory) lapses, cognitive bias’s etc.

Definitely! Especially at times of high pressure such as a resus.

 

[notsure]

Yet Mr Johnson remains the same lol

I think the artist is focused on her expressions at certain points.

I think I read somewhere that the artists aren't even allowed to do the sketches in the courtroom, but have to do them from memory when they get out.

 

[katydid23]

I think it would be hugely inappropriate to start collating a memory box and doing hand and footprints before the baby had even died surely? I would think that would be very upsetting for a parent and therefore not policy. The point is that she had no reason to be in the family room at that time.

I think LL's statement that " it is often done before the child dies" is another example where she just blurts out a lie and dresses it up as a known fact.

Just like she has done a few times in the cross so far.

 

[Dotta]

2:50pm

The judge, Mr Justice James Goss, has entered the courtroom.
The judge is informing members of the jury the trial will not resume today. He says the adjournment is for reasons that should not concern them.
The next day the trial will be held, as planned, will be Wednesday, May 24.
Members of the jury are being reminded not to conduct independent research or communicate with anyone involved in the case.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 19 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

It reminds me of Arthur LH murder trial.
The murderess could not attend the trial often and the public was left guessing.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think I read somewhere that the artists aren't even allowed to do the sketches in the courtroom, but have to do them from memory when they get out.

Now that’s a real skill. Probably the only one in the court with a half decent memory lol

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I thought her reaction to the “not very nice” comments showed restraint especially with it being a broadly known thing presumably. I think that could send many people into anger, she didn’t though. Restraint and a seemingly measured response. Certainly no open conflict, no nails and teeth. Not just that but if she genuinely felt hurt by dr Ravi and. Dr Brearey and called them b studs, I don’t think I could think of a tamer insult.

Personally I think she was furious under the surface. IMO she was putting on an act and every so often the mask would slip slightly, like with the argument about her wanting to be in room 1 before baby C’s death. Instead of having an angry outburst, if guilty IMO she aimed for the baby C and indirectly ‘got revenge’ on her colleagues.

Whilst angry at not being allocated babies in room 1, I could imagine her setting out to hurt the colleagues she was angry at by causing them to experience the trauma of a baby dying on shift. Thinking she should have got her own way and been allowed back in room 1 she was frustrated that her request had been denied and LL (with her sense of self importance and entitlement) was designated a (in her mind IMO) less crucial role. On that night her anger spilled out into texts, although subtly she expressed frustration to JJK, and when JJK didn’t ‘take her side’ so to speak, if guilty, she decided to exact revenge IMO and make baby C’s designated nurse appear responsible and like she wasn’t good enough to be looking after an ITU baby.

Personally, if guilty, I think she isn’t the type of killer who has angry outbursts of rage, but someone who calculates and exacts revenge. I think atleast in the case of baby C it was a need to release her frustration aswell as get back at those she felt had wronged her.

All MOO

 

[marynnu]

Tried to delete mine, but can't

Click edit, delete everything then type 'dbm' (deleted by me) and save.

 

[esther43]

Personally I think she was furious under the surface. IMO she was putting on an act and every so often the mask would slip slightly, like with the argument about her wanting to be in room 1 before baby C’s death. Instead of having an angry outburst, if guilty IMO she aimed for the baby C and indirectly ‘got revenge’ on her colleagues.

Whilst angry at not being allocated babies in room 1, I could imagine her setting out to hurt the colleagues she was angry at by causing them to experience the trauma of a baby dying on shift. Thinking she should have got her own way and been allowed back in room 1 she was frustrated that her request had been denied and LL (with her sense of self importance and entitlement) was designated a (in her mind IMO) less crucial role. On that night her anger spilled out into texts, although subtly she expressed frustration to JJK, and when JJK didn’t ‘take her side’ so to speak, if guilty, she decided to exact revenge IMO and make baby C’s designated nurse appear responsible and like she wasn’t good enough to be looking after an ITU baby.

Personally, if guilty, I think she isn’t the type of killer who has angry outbursts of rage, but someone who calculates and exacts revenge. I think atleast in the case of baby C it was a need to release her frustration aswell as get back at those she felt had wronged her.

All MOO

Well yeah. Quite possible .. And fits with note 'i killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care. for them'

 

[Dotta]

IMO NJ will trip her up somewhere!

Not "somewhere" but
"everywhere" is my guess.

"The scythe hit a stone"
as we say in my country

JMO

 

[Enquirer-2019]

I received my sons “memory box” when I signed his death certificate several days later (I say memory box, it was hand and footprints and some hair).

He had come into a&e by ambulance and resus didn’t work (was probably about an hour in total). After they stopped resus they gave him straight to me, and I was allowed him for as long as I wanted. There was no rush for a cold cot or to preserve him. No one was hovering or trying to get his handprints. I think the only thing they said to me was that they would need someone to look at his eyes within a few hours as eyes are something that does start changing very soon after death. When they did that, a nurse held him, I was present. I think I was with him for 6-8 hours post death before I went home? As he was an unexpected infant death he was automatically supposed to have a post-mortem, so at that time that’s what we were expecting.

For a baby who has spent 5 hours dying and who’s heart stops in his mothers arms, there’s no reason at all I can think of that they would need the baby to be in a cold cot immediately, post mortem or not. And as far as I’m concerned there’s no reason to do any hand or footprints, surely they could be done before admitting to the mortuary? From my limited knowledge I actually assumed all babies were carried to the mortuary by someone as well opposed to being wheeled. I wonder who did that for all of these cases.

I am so sorry about the heartbreaking experience you have endured losing your son . - I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Personally I think she was furious under the surface. IMO she was putting on an act and every so often the mask would slip slightly, like with the argument about her wanting to be in room 1 before baby C’s death. Instead of having an angry outburst, if guilty IMO she aimed for the baby C and indirectly ‘got revenge’ on her colleagues.

Whilst angry at not being allocated babies in room 1, I could imagine her setting out to hurt the colleagues she was angry at by causing them to experience the trauma of a baby dying on shift. Thinking she should have got her own way and been allowed back in room 1 she was frustrated that her request had been denied and LL (with her sense of self importance and entitlement) was designated a (in her mind IMO) less crucial role. On that night her anger spilled out into texts, although subtly she expressed frustration to JJK, and when JJK didn’t ‘take her side’ so to speak, if guilty, she decided to exact revenge IMO and make baby C’s designated nurse appear responsible and like she wasn’t good enough to be looking after an ITU baby.

Personally, if guilty, I think she isn’t the type of killer who has angry outbursts of rage, but someone who calculates and exacts revenge. I think atleast in the case of baby C it was a need to release her frustration aswell as get back at those she felt had wronged her.

All MOO

I’m not getting angry vibes from her at all. I totally get ur angle but I just can’t put it that way myself. I think people on here are generally accurate, would be the after affect that she’s getting something from. I don’t think if she is guilty the reward was in the act itself. Did seem very caught up in it but at the same time seemingly moved on quite quickly To the point of not remembering even with prompting. Could be effective coping mechanisms but could be something more nasty. I think there is scope for what others have suggested as well, maybe it’s some really strange death fixation Or some aspect of it. The last ones a guess with very scant evidence for but there may be some. For example when she kept going back into the room, weird to say but could be some voyeuristic element. all if guilty and imo.

eta. I’m sure your last paragraph is correct but I don’t see spite as an element here. I don’t think it’s that nor jealousy.

 

[Enquirer-2019]

Speaking from experience on both sides of this situation (as bereaved parent, and as nurse assisting bereaved parents), it should be entirely the parent's choice. The checklist should be available to be sure that all the same things are offered to families, to make things equitable and consistent, but it would be inappropriate to follow it rigidly without respect to differences between families. The appropriateness depends on things being handled sensitively and respectfully towards the family. In some cases where a death is anticipated, some parents find it meaningful to take footprints and handprints themselves, or have the nurse take the prints, from their living baby, just as you would for any newborn. The nurse will be their assistant as they do these things, steadying the baby's hand or foot, getting the paper and ink, providing bathing supplies, and so forth. In other cases, it will be done after death, again, sometimes by the parents themselves, if that is what they prefer, or sometimes by a nurse. It is a best practice not to take anything away from the parents that they might want to do themselves. The nurse should fade into the background and appear only when something is needed.

With all that said, I don't think there's any evidence that if LL was taking footprints or making a memory box before the baby had died, that it was out of respect for the parent's wishes.

I am sorry for your loss

 

[katydid23]

Regarding the accidental phone Call to the parent...I'm not sure what happens in all hospitals but where I worked you would phone switchboard and ask them to page the on call consultant as at night they were at home. The consultant would then call the ward ...its "possible" the phone rang and the nurse gave it to the Dr thinking it was the Consultant but it may have been parents ringing...especially as during the middle of the night as not many calls come in.
This is JMO

Child A had passed a couple of weeks earlier---why would mum be calling the clinic that night?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Props and love to anyone who can feel this discussion is relatable. Big hugs.