UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #24

[Tortoise]

12:30pm

Letby accepts the blood results 'prove' insulin was placed in the dextrose solution.
Prof Hindmarsh had previously given evidence to say insulin had been administered between midnight and 9.30am on April 9.
NJ: "Do you accept that?"
LL: "Yes."

12:34pm

Mr Johnson says the insulin administered to Child L was a 'targeted attack' as the dextrose bag had been in place since noon on April 8.
"It follows that insulin was administered while the [dextrose] bag was hanging, doesn't it?"
Letby: "I don't know."
Mr Johnson talks through the process and repeats that, from evidence, the bag must have been in place when insulin was administered.
LL: "If that's what the expert suggests, yes."
NJ: "It follows that it was a targeted attack?"
LL: "I can't answer that."

12:38pm

Mr Johnson says the only two staff members on duty for both days, when Child F and Child L were poisoned with insulin, were Letby and Belinda Williamson [Simcock].
A staffing rota for the April 9 day shift is shown to the court. Child L and Child M are in room 1, with designated nurse Mary Griffith. Letby is designated nurse for two other babies in room 1. Belinda Williamson is the designated nurse for three babies in room 3. Four babies are in room 2 and four babies are in room 4.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 5 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

12:49pm

The neonatal schedule for April 9 is shown. Mr Johnson says it is to show what Lucy Letby was doing between 9am-9.30am.
The schedule shows Letby was a co-signer for medication for one baby in room 2, and giving a feed to her designated baby in room 1.
Letby was the co-signer for medication for a room 1 designated baby around 9.10am.
Mr Johnson says a series of prescriptions for three different babies at 9.25-9.29am, co-signed by a nursery nurse and Mary Griffith, gave Letby the "opportunity" to administer the insulin for Child L.
Letby says: "No, I don't know how the insulin got there."
Mr Johnson says it has already been established the insulin was administered on the unit, on the bag that was connected to Child L throughout that time.
NJ: "That's what it's a targeted attack, isn't it?"
Letby pauses.
NJ: "What do you say?"
LL: "Not by me it wasn't."
Letby says she can "only answer for herself" in relation to the accusation by Mr Johnson that the insulin poisoning for Child F and Child L "can only be you or Belinda Simcock".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 5 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Judith Moritz
@JudithMoritz
·
5m

Nick Johnson KC tells the court that there are only two nurses who were present when baby F received insulin (Aug 2015) and also when baby L was given it (April 2016).

Judith Moritz
@JudithMoritz
·
3m

Nick Johnson KC: "It was a targeted attack wasn’t it. What do you say?"
Lucy Letby: "Not by me it wasn’t"
NJKC: "Poisoning a child in the same way baby F was poisoned"
LL: "Yes"
NJKC: "With the same substance"
LL: "Yes"

Judith Moritz

@JudithMoritz
·
1m

NJKC: "Isn’t the reality that unless there's more than one poisoner it has to be you or (the other nurse)”
LL: “I can only answer for myself and say I’ve never put insulin into any bags”
NJKC: “It was never suggested that it was her”
LL: “I can’t answer that”.

 

[Tortoise]

Now12:56

Silence before Letby denies attack​

Only two staff members worked the same shift when Child F received insulin (5 August 2015) and when Child L received insulin (9 April 2016) - Letby, and her colleague.
Sky News is not naming any of the other medical staff at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
"Whoever did it, did it deliberately," Mr Johnson says to Letby for the prosecution.
"If it happened on the unit, yes," Letby replies.
"That's why it was a targeted attack, wasn't it?" Mr Johnson asks.
There is silence from Letby.
"What do you say?" Mr Johnson presses.
"Not by me it wasn't," Letby replies.

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[marynnu]

Re. search for Baby K's parents, do we think the date of 20/04/2018 has any actual meaning, or that it's just a question thrown out there to show how strangely random the search was?

 

[Tortoise]

12:57pm

Mr Johnson says despite the fact the bag was changed at noon on April 9, the insulin kept being administered to Child L, "didn't it?"
Letby: "Yes."
Mr Johnson says "we know that" because the blood sample taken to the lab was taken at 3.45pm "contained exogenous insulin".
Letby: "I can't recall."
Mr Johnson says Child L was targeted with a second bag of insulin.
Letby: "I'd have to be guided by the evidence - the expert evidence."
Mr Johnson says a third bag is hung up at 4.30pm. The hypoglycaemia "continued". Letby agrees.
The fourth bag, hung up the following day "when you [Letby] were not working" was put up, and the hypoglycaemia "gradually resolved". Letby agrees.

12:58pm

Mr Johnson says the reason for the hypoglycaemia was that someone had poisoned Child L through 'at least two' bags of insulin.
LL: "Yes."
NJ: "And that was you, wasn't it?"
LL: "No."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 5 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

3m ago13:05

At least two bags were 'poisoned with insulin' - but Letby denies being responsible​

Nick Johnson KC, for the prosecution, argues that not only was Child L given insulin in one bag, but blood tests showed he was also given a second bag that had been tampered with.
A dextrose fluid bag is changed every 24 hours.
"I would have to be guided by the expert evidence," Letby says in response to the prosecution's argument.
By 11pm on 11 April, Child L's issues with hypoglycemia - a low blood sugar level - had resolved.
"Somebody had poisoned at least two glucose bags with insulin," Mr Johnson says.
"Yes," Letby replies.
"That was you wasn't it?" Mr Johnson asks.
"No," says Letby.

3m ago13:05

Court breaks for lunch​

It will resume at 2.10pm.

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·

We're now moving to twin boys Child L and M born in April 2016. The court has heard that in the hours that followed Ms Letby's arrival on 9 April, Child L's glucose levels fell to abnormally low and he had to be given glucose in an attempt to correct hypoglycaemia.

The prosecution said blood tests revealed a very high level of insulin, which they said had been caused by the administering of synthetic insulin in a "deliberate act of sabotage" by Ms Letby.

Mr Johnson asks Ms Letby if she accepts somebody added insulin to Child L's dextrose - she says yes. She also accepts adding insulin would be 'highly dangerous'

Mr Johnson says this was a 'targeted attack' that the victim had been 'selected' - Ms Letby says she 'can't answer that'

Mr Johnson says 'I'm going to suggest you put insulin into (Child L's) bag just before 9.30am on 9 April (2016)'. Ms Letby rejects this. Mr Johnson says, it was a 'targeted attack'

'Not by me it wasn't', she responds

 

[katydid23]

Lunch break----that's my bed time in California. Anyone who wants to can pick up Dan O'Donoghue when they resume.

 

[Tortoise]

Judith Moritz
@JudithMoritz
·
11m

Nick Johnson KC now moves to begin asking Lucy Letby about baby L - the second baby who the nurse is accused of poisoning with insulin. She denies this.

Judith Moritz
@JudithMoritz
·
11m

It's alleged that Lucy Letby added insulin to the dextrose bag which was attached to baby L.

Judith Moritz
@JudithMoritz
·
8m

NJKC: "Do you accept that somebody put insulin into the dextrose?"
LL: "Yes"
NJKC: "And there was no legitimate reason for it"
LL: "Yes"
NJKC: "It’s highly dangerous"
LL: "Yes"
NJKC: "And the results of the blood test prove somebody put insulin into Baby L’s dextrose"
LL: "Yes"

Judith Moritz
@JudithMoritz
·
50s

NJKC "Do you remember me suggesting this was a targeted attack against baby L?"
LL "Yes"
NJKC "Because the same bag was hanging from 12pm on the 8th April, to 12pm on the 9th"
LL "Yes"
NJKC "It didn’t have insulin in it on the 8th"
LL "No"
NJKC "But it did on the 9th"
LL "Yes"

Judith Moritz
@JudithMoritz
·
4m

Nick Johnson KC: "So it follows that insulin was put into the bag whilst it was hanging doesn’t it…"
Lucy Letby: "I don’t know".

Judith Moritz
@JudithMoritz
·
3m

NJKC: "It follows that it was a targeted attack. The victim was selected."
LL: "I can’t answer that"
NJKC: "Well alright, somebody has injected insulin into the bag whilst it was hanging"
LL: "If that’s what the experts suggest, yes"
NJKC: "It is"

Well well well, we didn't know this before.

Added to the bag while it was hanging.

Her answers aren't cutting the mustard, because she follows the logic but then ducks out of the logical conclusions. Another similarity across all cases - why answer like this, saying she wasn't at the cotside etc., if it wasn't her for the insulin, and if it was natural causes for all the other incidents?

JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Not seeing it really.

She looks most like the pap shots of her in her blue hoody, but more feminine and miserable looking.

This is what I kind of suspected, tbh. The initial sketches of her by EK made her look horrendous and nothing like the pictures of her. I'm sure I said at the time that that was intentional because if she's convicted these are the pictures which will be on most of the reports for all time.

I'm sure the legacy of the artist has heavily influenced those sketches!

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think it makes perfect sense. The goal is not 'the death' ----the goal is to create chaos and then get attention and sympathy for being a hero and a martyr. The goal is getting praise and acknowledgement for being such an amazing nurse and for saving babies and sometimes losing them but still carrying on in spite of such tragedy. Teamwork.

I mentioned this weeks and weeks ago but if you are correct and that was actually her motivation, then she cannot be convicted of attempted murder as there is clearly no intent to cause death. Risking death, even if death is extremely likely, is not sufficient.

Thslat is a fact of law and if we are thinking that here then there is every possibility that the jury are too!

MOO!

 

[WaxLyrical]

Well well well, we didn't know this before.

Added to the bag while it was hanging.

Her answers aren't cutting the mustard, because she follows the logic but then ducks out of the logical conclusions. Another similarity across all cases - why answer like this, saying she wasn't at the cotside etc., if it wasn't her for the insulin, and if it was natural causes for all the other incidents?

JMO

Personally, I find the idea that insulin was added while the bags were hanging to be less plausible than other methods. I can get my head around someone injecting insulin to a bag behind a fridge door. But to do it in plain sight while the bag is already hanging? When other nurses were in the room?

My understanding was nothing gets added to these bags once they’re hung, the dextrose gets mixed in beforehand. So it sounds like it would be unusual for anything to be added afterwards.

 

[Tortoise]

Personally, I find the idea that insulin was added while the bags were hanging to be less plausible than other methods. I can get my head around someone injecting insulin to a bag behind a fridge door. But to do it in plain sight while the bag is already hanging? When other nurses were in the room?

My understanding was nothing gets added to these bags once they’re hung, the dextrose gets mixed in beforehand. So it sounds like it would be unusual for anything to be added afterwards.

The expert clearly has a way of being able to detect how it was administered, based on blood sugar readings, bag changes and consistency across time in levels of poisoning. The method doesn't appear from reporting to have been challengeable by the defence. JMO

 

[Kemug]

"I can't answer that", "I can't answer that" - can't or won't? Or can't answer it truthfully? Which is it, Lucy?

 

[WaxLyrical]

The expert clearly has a way of being able to detect how it was administered, based on blood sugar readings, bag changes and consistency across time in levels of poisoning. The method doesn't appear from reporting to have been challengeable by the defence. JMO

Yes I don’t think it’s in dispute that the insulin was in the bag(s). I’m just saying in terms of how it got into the bags, it feels less likely (to me) that it was done in plain sight by adding it while the bag was hanging. Especially if it’s fairly unusual for medicines to be added to these bags, as anyone who saw her would presumably be instantly suspicious.

I’ve said for a long time I think it’s more likely the insulin was added to the neat dextrose, resulting in consistent insulin administration across all bags, and not requiring Letby’s presence each time, but that’s just pure speculation on my part and means nothing. JMO.

 

[ColourPurple]

Lunch break----that's my bed time in California. Anyone who wants to can pick up Dan O'Donoghue when they resume.

Thanks as always Katy.

I can't help out now I'm back at work but as always massive appreciation to you, Tortoise and anybody else who helps out with posting the updates!!

There are a lot to keep up with on this case so the more people the merrier

 

[Tortoise]

Yes I don’t think it’s in dispute that the insulin was in the bag(s). I’m just saying in terms of how it got into the bags, it feels less likely (to me) that it was done in plain sight by adding it while the bag was hanging. Especially if it’s fairly unusual for medicines to be added to these bags, as anyone who saw her would presumably be instantly suspicious.

I’ve said for a long time I think it’s more likely the insulin was added to the neat dextrose, resulting in consistent insulin administration across all bags, and not requiring Letby’s presence each time, but that’s just pure speculation on my part and means nothing. JMO.

I wish we had decent reporting of the professor's evidence. I have to wonder if he ruled this out because it also seemed to me as if that could be the case, but they're not running with that.

 

[CS2C]

Just about to go back into court after the lunch break. Initial impressions are that Lucy is actually far more calm and composed than I had imagined.

The fact she claims to not remember a lot of dates or occurrences in my opinion leaves her unable to be tripped up or caught in a lie by the prosecution.

As others have mentioned she blinks at one hell of a rapid rate at times, particularly when thinking. This was only evident by looking at the larger screen inside the court and not the small one.

I will be back later

 

[marynnu]

Yes I don’t think it’s in dispute that the insulin was in the bag(s). I’m just saying in terms of how it got into the bags, it feels less likely (to me) that it was done in plain sight by adding it while the bag was hanging. Especially if it’s fairly unusual for medicines to be added to these bags, as anyone who saw her would presumably be instantly suspicious.

I’ve said for a long time I think it’s more likely the insulin was added to the neat dextrose, resulting in consistent insulin administration across all bags, and not requiring Letby’s presence each time, but that’s just pure speculation on my part and means nothing. JMO.

It would be quite difficult to add anything to a bag of dextrose before it's opened for use due to the nature of the packaging. The plastic cover fits closely over both the bung and the port into which the giving set is attached, like it's vacuum packed. And of course if these babies were targeted you'd have no idea which bag to contaminate.
But I agree, reaching up to inject something into a hung bag would be very obvious. You'd have to remove it from the hook and lie it down somewhere I think.