UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #24

[Legal]

"Because I collect paper"?? Am I alone in thinking that is a very peculiar statement?

It's a ridiculous statement!

However, she doesn't "collect" her personal bank documents even though it's perfectly safe to keep confidential items in her house. She shreds those.

 

[DianaWW]

11m ago11:31

Recap: Who is Child N?​

Nick Johnson KC, for the prosecution, moves on to the case of Child N.
Letby allegedly attempted to kill the baby boy three times and faces three counts for this:

• Count 17: Attempted murder on 3 June 2016
• Count 18: Attempted murder on 15 June at 7.15-7.30am
• Count 19: Attempted murder on 15 June at 3pm

The prosecution claims Letby "used his haemophilia as a cover to attack him". His throat was found covered in blood - doctors could not even put a feeding tube down.
He screamed for 30 minutes, which one expert said "he had never seen before in a neonate".

5m ago11:37

Child N collapsed just after Letby's colleague went on break​

On 3 June 2016, Lucy Letby was caring for two children in nursery four - these are not children she is accused of harming.
Child N was in nursery one, with a different nurse.
"Do you agree Child N collapsed just after [a colleague] went on [a] break?" Nick Johnson KC, for the prosecution, asks.
"Yes."
"Do you agree you had two, what have been described as, feeders and growers in nursery four?"
"Yes."
"Did you find that boring?"
"No."
"Did you find that you had time on your hands?"
"No."
"Do you agree Child N was in good shape at the beginning of this shift?" Mr Johnson asks.
"I think so, yes" Letby says.

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[katydid23]

Judith Moritz

@JudithMoritz

Nick Johnson KC now moves on to asking Lucy Letby about baby N, a boy, who the nurse is accused of attempting to murder on three occasions in June 2016.

 

[DianaWW]

1m ago11:49

Letby's WhatsApps appear to contradict medical records​

Medical records record Lucy Letby as feeding one of the infants in her care at 8.30pm on 3 June 2016, but WhatsApp messages shown to the court dispute this.
Letby tells the court she "really can't say" how long it would have taken her to feed the babies in her care.
"You were texting your friends right through this time you were supposedly feeding this child," Mr Johnson asks.
"I don't know," Letby says quietly.
"You don't know? You didn't notice?" he says.
The court is shown a series of rapid text conversations between Letby and one of her colleagues - started by Letby three minutes after she started her shift.
Letby (7.33pm): Are you home?
The pair then begin a back-and-forth text conversation.
Her colleague then asks if Letby is in the handover. The handover would have taken place from 7.30pm.
Letby (7:58pm): [Colleague] had gone home so I had a paper handover lol
Letby (8pm): We've got a baby with haemophilia
Letby sent texts complaining about another one of her colleagues at 8.26pm and 8.29pm.
She also sent a message at 8.31pm saying one of the babies was "Slow with feed but getting there".
She sent further texts at 8.34pm and 8.38pm - despite allegedly feeding the baby at 8.30pm.
"How do you text when you do the two-handed job of feeding a child?" Mr Johnson asks.
"You can't," says Letby.
He says the only way it could have been done is if Letby fed the baby in her care very quickly.
"You think I pushed it in," says Letby.
"I do," replies Nick Johnson.
"No, I did not," says Letby.

https://news.sky.com/story/lucy-letby-trial-latest-nurse-baby-murders-prosecution-sky-news-blog-12868375

 

[Tortoise]

I'm surprised she wasn't asked to elaborate on that remark.

She was questioned further about that, although how do you follow up such a daft answer? -

When asked why she stored it in a bag under her bed, Letby says: "Because I collect paper."

Letby is then asked why she has shredded a bank statement, yet kept this medical record.

"What made this collectable?" Mr Johnson asks.

She says she would have shredded the bank statement because it would have been "at the forefront of my mind".

Lucy Letby trial live: 'I collect paper' - 'killer' nurse tells court why she kept alleged victim's medical notes under her bed

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

"Because I collect paper"?? Am I alone in thinking that is a very peculiar statement?

Unless it's only a half formed sentence. I collect up paper in order to recycle it.

 

[katydid23]

Unless it's only a half formed sentence. I collect up paper in order to recycle it.

But was she recycling it? Many of those handover sheets were from her student nursing days. And do you recycle paper towels?

 

[Legal]

11:54am

The neonatal schedule for June 2-3 is shown, with Letby's duties for her two designated babies from 8.30pm-8.38pm.
One of the designated babies received a 50ml NGT feed at 8.30pm as they were asleep. Letby says that feed can take '10-15 minutes or so'. She says she can't put a 'definitive number' on it.
Mr Johnson says other estimates for this kinds of feed have been 20 minutes.
Letby: "I really can't say."
Mr Johnson says Letby was texting her friends 'right through this shift'.
A sequence of messages is shown to the court. The first sent by Letby is at 7.33pm, followed by 7.35pm, 7.58pm, 7.59pm, 8pm ['We have got a baby with haemophilia'], 8pm, 8.01pm, 8.02pm, 8.03pm, 8.04pm [Ah ok I'll have to Google it later lol don't know much about it [haemophilia]], 8.06pm, 8.11pm [Complex condition, yeah 50;50 chance antenatally].
NJ: "That is where you got the answer from, Dr Google?"
LL: "No, '50:50' is something staff would know"
Messages are sent by Letby at 8.26pm [Ffs Mel asing me how to make up 12.5%],
Letby said she was "shocked" that a band 6 colleague was asking her how to make up such a solution, when she could have looked for herself.
8.29pm: 'No I've passed her folder but now asking if can run via cannula- she needs to look herself!'
Letby says she was "not happy" with Mel.
Another message is sent from Letby at 8.29pm, and at 8.31pm, and 8.31pm, at 8.32pm, 8.34pm.
Letby is asked how she can feed a baby at 8.30pm when she was also texting.
LL: "You can't."
Letby denies feeding the baby "very quickly" by putting the plunger on the end.
Another message is sent from Letby at 8.38pm [Had strange message from [doctor colleague] earlier...']
Mr Johnson asks if Letby's nursing colleague was implying Letby and the doctor were in a relationship. Letby says she does not know.
Letby's colleague sent two messages: "Did u? Saying what?
"Go commando? "
Letby is asked by Mr Johnson if she knows what the implication of 'go commando' means.
LL: "I don't know what was meant, I can't say right now."
NJ: "Do you think this was an army reference, being from Hereford?"
LL: "I don't know."
The messages are sent by Letby at 8.39pm, 8.40pm, 8.41pm, 8.43pm [Do you think he's being odd?], 8.44pm [Shut up!], 8.44pm [I don't flirt with him!].

 

[Legal]

The texting is really out of control!

 

[DianaWW]

Lots of comments early on saying they found most of the texts to be irrelevant, but I think it's now becoming clear why they were introduced as evidence. JMO.

 

[Lammergeier]

"Because I collect paper"?? Am I alone in thinking that is a very peculiar statement?

Beyond weird. It would be one thing if she tried to explain why she actually would have been the last to handle those papers and why they wouldn’t have been in the bin, reasserting the previous “oh she just stuffed them in pockets absent-mindedly” defence, but instead she comes up with this new idea of collecting paper to the point that she’s supposedly scurrying around picking up other doctors’ paper towels? What on Earth? I dont think anyone could have predicted how strange her comments on the stand would be!

 

[Legal]

12:03pm

The text message conversation was:
Letby: 'Had strange message from [colleague] earlier....'
Reply: 'Did u? Saying what?'
Letby had replied at 8.39pm: ''
LL: 'Asking when I was working next week as wants to talk to me about something, has a favour to ask..?'
Reply: 'Think he likes u too'
Reply: 'Hmm did u not ask what it was?'
LL: 'No just said when I was working and he said wants my opinion on something'
LL: 'Hmm...'
Reply: 'Hmm'
LL: 'Do you think he's being odd?'
Reply: 'Thought as flirty as u'
LL: 'Shut up!'
Reply: 'What?!'
LL: 'I don't flirt with him!'
Reply: 'Ok'
LL: 'Certainly don't fancy him haha just nice guy'
Reply: 'Ok'

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 7 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[DianaWW]

4m ago12:02

Letby denies knowing what 'go commando' means​

Just after 8.38pm, Letby and a colleague exchanged a series of messages about another colleague Letby was allegedly "sweet on".
In one message, Letby's colleague encouraged her to 'go commando'.
Letby denies knowing what this means.
"What does that mean, is it a reference to the royal marines?" Mr Johnson asks.
"I don't know," Letby says.
"Go commando, you don't know what that means?" Mr Johnson says.
The court is shown Letby replied with a series of laughing emojis.
"Did you think this was an army reference, you being from Hereford?"
"I don't know," Letby says.
Further text messages are shown to the court, in which Letby denies to her colleague that she was being flirty with the other colleague.

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[Legal]

2:11pm

Mr Johnson says Letby was 'texting non-stop' on the nursery room.
Letby says the feed "must have happened at a different time". She says she cannot answer when. She denies 'pushing it through' the feed.
Mr Johnson says Child N collapsed at 1am. Christpher Booth 'one episode whilst I was on my break, whereby infant was crying++ and not settling. He became dusky in colour, desaturating to 40s. Responded to facial oxygen within 1-2 minutes. Crying subsided within approximately 30 minutes and colour returned to normal...'
Letby tells the court this was not a 'collapse' as facial oxygen was all that was required, not resuscitation.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 7 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Legal]

12:14pm

Mr Johnson says Dr Jennifer Loughnane had a 'look of surprise' in court when she had read her note she had written Child N was 'screaming', as that was unusual. Letby says she does recall that.
She denies sabotaging Child N.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 7 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[katydid23]

Judith Moritz
@JudithMoritz

Nick Johnson KC now moves on to asking Lucy Letby about baby N, a boy, who the nurse is accused of attempting to murder on three occasions in June 2016.

Nick Johnson KC shows the court multiple text messages which Lucy Letby exchanged with another nurse whilst she was on shift, some whilst she's recorded as feeding another baby.

NJKC - "How do you do that?" (text whilst feeding a baby via tube) LL - "You can’t" NJKC - "There is a way of doing it. Feeding a child very quickly." LL - "You think I pushed it in?" NJKC - "I do. You tell the jury" LL - "No, I did not"

Nick Johnson KC shows text messages which Lucy Letby and another nurse exchange about one of the doctors in which they laugh about the idea that he might "go commando". Nick Johnson asks her what the phrase means. She says she doesn't know.

[ She knows what commando means---she is just embarrassed to answer, IMO]

 

[Legal]

Nick Johnson KC shows the court multiple text messages which Lucy Letby exchanged with another nurse whilst she was on shift, some whilst she's recorded as feeding another baby.

NJKC - "How do you do that?" (text whilst feeding a baby via tube) LL - "You can’t" NJKC - "There is a way of doing it. Feeding a child very quickly." LL - "You think I pushed it in?" NJKC - "I do. You tell the jury" LL - "No, I did not"

Nick Johnson KC shows text messages which Lucy Letby and another nurse exchange about one of the doctors in which they laugh about the idea that he might "go commando". Nick Johnson asks her what the phrase means. She says she doesn't know.

[ She knows what commando means---she is just embarrassed to answer, IMO]

Yes - she replied with laughing emojis.

 

[katydid23]

Yes - she replied with laughing emojis.

Interesting tidbit because it shows she is OK with lying under oath if it suits her.

She could have said " I'd rather not say, it was just a private joke'---jurors probably would have sided with her. But saying she does not know what int means seems like an obvious lie, which affects her credibility, once again.

 

[JosieJo]

11:24am

Dr Ukoh's records on the resuscitation for Child M are shown to the court. Mr Johnson says the record is "meticulous", including six adrenaline doses.
Mr Johnson says the data for the resuscitation efforts is on the paper towel [that Letby took home], which Mr Johnson says he must have had in his hand at some point. Letby agrees.
Mr Johnson says that was in his hand at 8.25pm when he wrote up his notes.
Letby said she had to stay late that shift for the handover and writing up medical notes for Child M. She denies "waiting an hour and a quarter" to write up those nursing notes or "hanging around" to get the note Dr Ukoh had when writing up the note.
Letby denies "rooting around in the bin" for the blood gas record for Child M to take home. She also denies sabotaging Child M.

11:25am

Mr Johnson is now turning to the case of Child N, born on June 2, 2016.
Letby, in her defence statement, says she had never encoutnered a baby with haemophilia before, and no-one on the unit seemed specifically to know how to care for such a baby.
She says she does not believe Child N 'collapsed', and it was not accurate to say he had screamed for 30 minutes. She denied causing any harm to him.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 7 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Very interesting that the paper towel was in the Dr's Hands way after LLS shift finishes yet she still has it in her pocket to take home

 

[katydid23]

2:11pm

Mr Johnson says Letby was 'texting non-stop' on the nursery room.
Letby says the feed "must have happened at a different time". She says she cannot answer when. She denies 'pushing it through' the feed.
Mr Johnson says Child N collapsed at 1am. Christpher Booth 'one episode whilst I was on my break, whereby infant was crying++ and not settling. He became dusky in colour, desaturating to 40s. Responded to facial oxygen within 1-2 minutes. Crying subsided within approximately 30 minutes and colour returned to normal...'
Letby tells the court this was not a 'collapse' as facial oxygen was all that was required, not resuscitation.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 7 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

So I am trying to get the timeline figured out here. Is this saying that LL fed the baby, perhaps fed the baby by pushing it faster, so she could text---

And then afterwards the baby had a mini-collapse and needed facial oxygen to recover?