UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #25

[Marantz4250b]

The lack of character witnesses may or may not matter/may or not be useful. Still, I was surprised that there were absolutely none. If I was LL, I would want any number of old friends and associates to stand up and tell the world what a lovely person I was! I would be hoping that it might sway the jury, at least just a little bit. I am trying not to find the lack of character witnesses telling.

I doubt the court would allow that. It's not relevant in any way to the evidence.

 

[Lincoln34]

Like with many other minor details in this case, it's only relevant if she's guilty.

The relevance is that she purchased a house in March 2016, in the middle of the alleged June 2015 - June 2016 charges, that is the very house that is directly behind the baby memorial garden in a very large cemetery. It's literally the closest house possible to this little baby garden. In the winter when the trees between her garden and the memorial garden were bare, she would have been able to view it from her upstairs windows. I think this is relevant given that the prosecution allege she enjoyed watching the aftermath of deaths, including the Facebook searches. It is also relevant in that if guilty, serial killers often like to be near the bodies of their victims.

Also, when she purchased this house, there was already a children's bedroom with this design on the wall:

<modsnip: No link; ALL images require a link to source>

Which looks very like the owls in Nursery 2, where several of the babies were allegedly attacked:


<modsnip: No link; ALL images require a link to source>


If guilty, I cannot see any of this as a coincidence. JMO.

That is disturbing and fascinating . The baby garden is not very big- certainly not in the context of the rest of the site, which is very large. It’s well maintained with fresh flowers and ornaments and is visited a lot by the families. S

I volunteered for the charity that put the bronze dolphin statue in the middle of one part and was there at the opening of the statue


I can’t articulate how I feel about her home location being so close to the baby garden. Maybe akin to Dr Jo’s chills re air embolism.

 

[katydid23]

That is disturbing and fascinating . The baby garden is not very big- certainly not in the context of the rest of the site, which is very large. It’s well maintained with fresh flowers and ornaments and is visited a lot by the families. S

I volunteered for the charity that put the bronze dolphin statue in the middle of one part and was there at the opening of the statue


I can’t articulate how I feel about her home location being so close to the baby garden. Maybe akin to Dr Jo’s chills re air embolism.

I don't think it is a coincidence.

 

[Lincoln34]

What an interesting write up from the BBC.
Saying the expert witnesses can not be relied upon. This report seems very pro-letby.

Lucy Letby trial: Jury told to judge facts 'calmly and fairly' - BBC News

Nurse Lucy Letby is on trial accused of murdering babies and attempting to kill others at a hospital.

www.bbc.co.uk

I know the trial is really complex. I’ve only been able to follow it properly via the Mail podcast and the terrific posts on here.

It has had limited coverage in the National Media, but the Daily Mail have invested in a podcast. A significant commitment. Maybe the Mail know more than we do IMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

I don’t think the cemetery behind the house is anything tbh. You often find graveyards near to hospitals. Looking at the pics it would seem the view is blocked by some large oak trees. It’s only a mile from the hospital as well, I would presume that’s the more important thing thought about when buying it.

 

[Tortoise]

I've been thinking about Dr choc again.

1. That 'go commando' text message to the colleague where she starts off saying she 'had a strange message from doc choc' ...

But then she denies a romantic connection. But why send the message in the first place? It's like she wants a chance to deny it, or to play innocent. Something v manipulative about the whole exchange, like it's a game she's playing.

This led me to think about:

2. the weeping LL did when doc choc appeared on the stand.

If guilty, I wonder if she was hoping for some kind of narrative about her being the victim of the mean doctor.

IMO that weeping is similar to the manipulation of the colleague in the text, it's sort of 'off' , doesn't really make sense. If you are on trial for murdering babies, it's just impossible to fathom that even an actual AFFAIR would lead to that kind of dramatic emotional reaction.

But she then goes on to deny that relationship on the stand.

So why do the weeping?

If guilty, I think she was expecting, in the beginning, that it would be easy for her to get sympathy, feign naivety, play the victim, manipulate the truth, her usual MO which has been so successful throughout her life. If guilty, she underestimated the prosecution IMO and the value other humans place on TRUTH.

I wonder what her demeanour will be during closing statements.

Will we get more weeping?

As regards 1, I think she genuinely couldn't work out his motives, why he was contacting her on Facebook, after being, as her friend had already observed, flirty with her. When she asked 'do you think he's being odd?' I think it shows she needed her friend's thoughts on it because she has no ability to read the behaviour or process the feelings of others.

As regards 2, I think she cried because I speculate he dumped her, after leading her down the garden path. She wrote 'I loved you, what more could I have done, why couldn't I have been enough for [...], was I really that bad a friend/person that you could do that to me, I don't deserve that [...], and now I am the bad guy - I wanted you to stand by me but you didn't', and I believe she carries the wound of rejection around, still. I believe she can't admit to the affair because then she has to talk about how it ended and she thinks his rejection shows her as worthless, and I believe that would be the death of the image she has crafted her whole life to hide. Someone who craves power over others (as in the allegations against her) must feel really powerless and worthless, but there is a mask worn which keeps it hidden from the world.

I think if she is convicted she won't come out of her cell for sentencing. That rejection by the jury would be crushing.

JMO and amateur speculation

adding the note https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/resources/images/16683528/

 

[katydid23]

I don’t think the cemetery behind the house is anything tbh. You often find graveyards near to hospitals. Looking at the pics it would seem the view is blocked by some large oak trees. It’s only a mile from the hospital as well, I would presume that’s the more important thing thought about when buying it.

I bet there are dozens of homes near the hospital that don't have their bedroom window overlooking the babies's memorial garden. <modsnip>

 

[Anxala]

Or, to play devil's advocate, it was probably cheaper by reason of its location!

Not to mention that it likely fell within her budget, and she liked the space, and liked the neighbourhood and that it was likely positioned in an area that was convenient for her, travel-wise and otherwise...

As people generally tend to think when weighing up the pros and cons of a potential house purchase.

 

[Penny68]

I bet there are dozens of homes near the hospital that don't have their bedroom window overlooking the babies's memorial garden. <modsnip - quoted post was snipped>

Maybe that was the only house up for sale at that time nearest to the hospital where she worked.

 

[IDK]

Not to mention that it likely fell within her budget, and she liked the space, and liked the neighbourhood and that it was likely positioned in an area that was convenient for her, travel-wise and otherwise...

As people generally tend to think when weighing up the pros and cons of a potential house purchase.

Good points— I can’t imagine she specifically sought out a home located near a graveyard— if so I’m sure we would have heard about it from her realtor? I see it as a strange coincidence, that’s all. I could be totally wrong. If guilty and IMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Or, to play devil's advocate, it was probably cheaper by reason of its location!

Also, many people in the UK live adjacent to cemeteries since we are but a small island with a large population. Our cities tend to be high density, plus planning and building regulations have been changed over the years to encourage developments on the peripheries of places such as cemeteries. When I've known of people living close to or overlooking cemeteries it's been a lovely peaceful and tranquil environment, not at all creepy. I guess LL has ruined that for everyone on her old street!

 

[Becky53]

Or, to play devil's advocate, it was probably cheaper by reason of its location!

Exactly and within a walking distance to work so no hospital parking charges if there were any.

This is one coincidence imo that is just that - a coincidence.
MOO

I can just see the newspaper headline shockers if found guilty.

“Killer nurse buys house overlooking cemetery to watch grieving parents…”

At the end of day who knows where these babies were to be buried/cremated.

JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think if she is convicted she won't come out of her cell for sentencing. That rejection by the jury would be crushing.

JMO and amateur speculation

adding the note https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/resources/images/16683528/

Snipped for focus, by me.

Tortoise, I agree with the points about the relationship.

I have never heard of someone not being present in court for their sentencing - is that a 'thing' ?

 

[Parker Knoll]

A friend of mine is an estate agent and she absolutely dreads getting any new instructions that have anything remotely “ death related “ so graveyards and funeral homes are a no no.
They do knock value off a home and it does take a certain person who will buy them but I think the fact it was so close and it was possibly price sensitive to that fact would have been a double bonus to Letby.
I too am not convinced she will not come up for sentencing IF convicted and it drives me mad that the convicted still have the right to sit in their cells at that point …. Drag them there to face the consequences is my view.
Saying all that my cottage is 20 paces from a medieval church and graveyard ( I can’t see the graves I hasten to add ! )
Oh yikes …. I’m DOOMED !
All my opinion of course.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Or, to play devil's advocate, it was probably cheaper by reason of its location!

Tbh I think the view might only add to the value. What would you rather? Big open space even with gravestones or memorials or just other houses? The former adds value but definitely not as much as playing fields or the woods. Assuming you can see into it from the house at all.

 

[Sweeper2000]

A friend of mine is an estate agent and she absolutely dreads getting any new instructions that have anything remotely “ death related “ so graveyards and funeral homes are a no no.
They do knock value off a home and it does take a certain person who will buy them but I think the fact it was so close and it was possibly price sensitive to that fact would have been a double bonus to Letby.
I too am not convinced she will not come up for sentencing IF convicted and it drives me mad that the convicted still have the right to sit in their cells at that point …. Drag them there to face the consequences is my view.
Saying all that my cottage is 20 paces from a medieval church and graveyard ( I can’t see the graves I hasten to add ! )
Oh yikes …. I’m DOOMED !
All my opinion of course.

You sure it doesn’t add value? It’s better than just seeing other houses or buildings. Other benefits are it’s quieter and more open, less traffic, less pollution probably others as well.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

A friend of mine is an estate agent and she absolutely dreads getting any new instructions that have anything remotely “ death related “ so graveyards and funeral homes are a no no.
They do knock value off a home and it does take a certain person who will buy them but I think the fact it was so close and it was possibly price sensitive to that fact would have been a double bonus to Letby.
I too am not convinced she will not come up for sentencing IF convicted and it drives me mad that the convicted still have the right to sit in their cells at that point …. Drag them there to face the consequences is my view.
Saying all that my cottage is 20 paces from a medieval church and graveyard ( I can’t see the graves I hasten to add ! )
Oh yikes …. I’m DOOMED !
All my opinion of course.

I live in central London in a 'gentrified' area full of concrete tower blocks... we don't even get to see the sky here. Gimme a cemetery next door to look out on any day! The living are very noisy, chaotic, and unpredictable.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I suppose it’s horse for courses sweep … I would prefer to look over a graveyard than a row of chicken shops and a tower block but that’s just me.
You would probably only see it during the winter months in any event.

 

[Parker Knoll]

You sure it doesn’t add value? It’s better than just seeing other houses or buildings. Other benefits are it’s quieter and more open, less traffic, less pollution probably others as well.

Depends in what context. She had a beautiful deep Edwardian terrace that just would not shift. Two doors down from an undertakers, eventually sold as a BTL.
It does put some people off and however beautiful the house was I wouldn’t of bought it as you face the same issues again if and when you decide to sell it.
All completely subjective of course.
We have zero idea if the proximity to the graveyard had any bearing to Letby buying the house but as a poster mentioned upthread the tabloids will no doubt have a field day with their headlines if she is found guilty in due course.
MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I guess the suggestion being made is did LL deliberately choose her home over and above other equally viable properties *because* it was adjacent to the cemetery? Also one that has the special children's area?

I would speculate that any nurse who works in baby care where sadly children pass could go one of two ways - 'uh I don't want to think about the dead and the dying, I work all day in urgent care for compromised neonates, gimme a break...' - or - 'oh how lovely, it might put some people off but I would take comfort in knowing there's precious souls at rest in these beautiful grounds and it doesn't deter me at all...'

JMO MPOO