UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #25

[Marantz4250b]

No, I don't think she's put on weight, but she does have a slightly chubby face. I think that's down to the way her face has aged. She doesn't have a double chin or fat neck or anything.

I noticed that she was quite broad-shouldered. Her dad was extremely tall (about 6'3" or 1.9m) for an elderly man, so I think she might be taller and bigger than she looks.

I get the impression that she's reasonably tall. The pic of her in front if her car and one of two others gives that impression.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I would have to check back on the previous thread but I’m sure she did say she had a nightie on under her tracksuit. I’ll check and edit if I’m incorrect!

Edit: unorthodox but I remembered I screenshot from the forum and happened to have it in there. This is from Fridays testimony and is a msm update posted here. I remember it because when I read it I felt like both could be true? Had the police originally arrested her in her nightie and then afforded her time to get some clothes and shoes, it’s entirely plausible that she’s thrown the leisure suit on top of the nightie. Leisure suits are often material tracksuit bottoms and a material zip up jacket/jumper (I would wear a T-shirt under it in any case).

In any footage, if zipped up with the nightie tucked in, how can you possibly say she’s not wearing the nightie?

And while it’s still not the humiliation of being led out of your house in handcuffs in a nightie, it is the humiliation of having police knock and enter your parents house and effectively arrest you in your pajamas even if it’s only your parents witnessing it. I’m in no hurry to let anyone in my house with no bra on and whatever random garment I decided to sleep in that is never really decent attire for visitors.

I’d love to see what she originally said about the arrest but I’m definitely not going that far back to look tonight!

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Tbh, that's bordering on dishonesty on the part of NJ. She said "I think...". To then manipulate the following conversation to get her to admit she lied is not how a senior barrister (or any lawyer) should be behaving, imo. She clearly didn't lie.

Taking into account that the reporting my not be accurate, obviously.

 

[BabaVanga]

As I've alluded to before, I think it's the court artist taking huge liberties. If she's convicted (which is looking increasingly likely, imo) then these pictures will be used for the rest if time so might as well make them look dramatic.

I exchanged messes months ago on here with someone who's work colleague knew a friend who had visited her in prison and who'd said she'd lost loads of weight. Can't imagine anyone getting fat on prison food, tbh.

Actually lots of people get bloated looking in prison because of lack of physical activity. I know a few people personally that came out of prison much fatter.

 

[Marantz4250b]

What Johnson was doing was showing the court exactly what she looks like when stating a provable lie. If she lied without a change of her usual body language, then the jury can see that she’s a practised liar and can choose to disregard anything she said. After all Letby’s case is currently her credibility vs the experts, consultants and parents. If she commits perjury so casually ( criminal offence number 2 she’s admitted to during this cross exam) then what’s left of her credibility to the court as a whole?

He hasn't shown that she lied about being arrested in pyjamas/nightwear, though. I think she probably was.

I think they should be made to play the video
now. There will be body worn footage of the arrest. If she was indeed arrested in nightwear then he's made her admit to "lies" which aren't lies.

 

[BabaVanga]

That's never going to happen. This isn't an American court where a lawyer with a degree from a Cherios box is allowed to degend death penalty cases.

Ben Myers is a KC with a stellar reputation. If anything, based on the events so far, he might have a claim for his client undermining his good name!

Ooooh someone got out the wrong side of bed this morning. That’s not very nice towards Americans :0

 

[Marantz4250b]

If she had a nightie on with her sweatpants and trainers, then she still lied about being taken in wearing pyjamas.

She never commented on what she was taken away in, though. She said she was "arrested" in nightwear/attire, or however you want to put it. NJ has got her to admit to a "lie" based on an event after her arrest, ie: being taken away.

MOO, obvs.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Ooooh someone got out the wrong side of bed this morning. That’s not very nice towards Americans :0

Nope, still in bed, actually!

I really must get up and go to work!

Edit: actually it's possibly not very nice towards American lawyers rather than Americans in general but, well,...meh.

 

[Dotta]

She never commented on what she was taken away in, though. She said she was "arrested" in nightwear/attire, or however you want to put it. NJ has got her to admit to a "lie" based on an event after her arrest, ie: being taken away.

MOO, obvs.

"Arrested" means being led/transported from home to the Police station.

You seem to create neologisms trying to defend the accused and throw mud at Prosecutor.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Did she, though?

I've linked to where this was reported. She said she was arrested in her pyjamas. This is probably true if she answered the door at 6am. NJ said he could play a video of her being led away in something else. Being arrested and being led away are not the same thing. They would have arrested her the instant she answered the door.

Has she said that she was taken away in her pyjamas? I don't think so.

Post in thread 'UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #24' UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #24

I think it's pretty obvious what she was trying to convey, when she told the jury, through her tears, that she was 'arrested in her pyjamas.' Everyone jumps to conclusion she was taken away in a flimsy cotton nightgown or PJ s.

If it is as you say, why wouldn't she agree to play the video, and just say I never said I was led away in my PJ's---just arrested in them.

I think she knew that it would be seen as a lie because her PTSD narrative about the arrest in her pyjamas was meant to sound like humiliating and over the top behaviour by the police. Learning that they allowed her to change clothes and put on her trainers changes that narrative somewhat.

All of her lies are similar to this. She just uses certain words/phrases to set a tone, set a scene, that exaggerates things or alters things in her favour. Little lies sprinkled in here and there---ones she can talk her way out of when confronted.

 

[katydid23]

She never commented on what she was taken away in, though. She said she was "arrested" in nightwear/attire, or however you want to put it. NJ has got her to admit to a "lie" based on an event after her arrest, ie: being taken away.

MOO, obvs.

It was purposely misleading. She does that a lot. She is very cunning, IMO.

 

[Marantz4250b]

"Arrested" means being led/transported from home to the Police station.

You seem to create neologisms trying to defend the accused and throw mud at Prosecutor.

JMO

No it doesn't. It's the specific legal point/instant of arrest.

As I mentioned earlier, for instance, her subsequent arrests would almost certainly have been at a police station when she was answering bail. Your definition could not apply in that case.

Her arrest would have been the moment she opened the door, almost certainly. Knock: knock. Door opens "Lucy Letby, I'm arresting you on suspicion of murder". She's arrested, end of.

 

[ShineOn]

He hasn't shown that she lied about being arrested in pyjamas/nightwear, though. I think she probably was.

I think they should be made to play the video
now. There will be body worn footage of the arrest. If she was indeed arrested in nightwear then he's made her admit to "lies" which aren't lies.

The Chester Standard live updates state her as saying she was 'taken away' in her pyjamas . This was during her first day on the stand when being questioned by her barrister.

"Mr Myers asks Letby about her being arrested for the first time.

Letby says this was nothing like she had ever experienced before.

Wiping away tears, Letby says there was a knocking on the door at 6am from police, at her Westbourne Road, Chester home.

At the time, her father was with her. They had "no idea at all" the police were coming that day.

"They told me I was being arrested for multiple counts of murder, they put me into handcuffs and took me away" in her pyjamas."

See entry at 10:49 below.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think it's pretty obvious what she was trying to convey, when she told the jury, through her tears, that she was 'arrested in her pyjamas.' Everyone jumps to conclusion she was taken away in a flimsy cotton nightgown or PJ s.

If it is as you say, why wouldn't she agree to play the video, and just say I never said I was led away in my PJ's---just arrested in them.

I think she knew that it would be seen as a lie because her PTSD narrative about the arrest in her pyjamas was meant to sound like humiliating and over the top behaviour by the police. Learning that they allowed her to change clothes and put on her trainers changes that narrative somewhat.

All of her lies are similar to this. She just uses certain words/phrases to set a tone, set a scene, that exaggerates things or alters things in her favour. Little lies sprinkled in here and there---ones she can talk her way out of when confronted.

But the legal[/i], and hence true, fact is that she was most probably arrested in her night attire. Therefore, she isn't lying.

NJ says that she wasn't because he can produce a video of her being "led away" in something else.

The two are different events - this is UK law we are dealing with here and an arrest has a very specific legal meaning.

 

[katydid23]

He hasn't shown that she lied about being arrested in pyjamas/nightwear, though. I think she probably was.

I think they should be made to play the video
now. There will be body worn footage of the arrest. If she was indeed arrested in nightwear then he's made her admit to "lies" which aren't lies.

He offered to play it and she said NO.

If it was to her benefit, why'd she say no?

I suggest to you that she said "NO, don't play the video," because it did not look at all like the narrative she painted for the jury. They let her put on her track suit and trainers, and she probably hugged her visiting Father, and the cops were probably acting sympathetic towards her. JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

The Chester Standard live updates state her as saying she was 'taken away' in her pyjamas . This was during her first day on the stand when being questioned by her barrister.

"Mr Myers asks Letby about her being arrested for the first time.

Letby says this was nothing like she had ever experienced before.

Wiping away tears, Letby says there was a knocking on the door at 6am from police, at her Westbourne Road, Chester home.

At the time, her father was with her. They had "no idea at all" the police were coming that day.

"They told me I was being arrested for multiple counts of murder, they put me into handcuffs and took me away" in her pyjamas."

See entry at 10:49 below.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

So, essentially, we're back to the situation of crap reporting and having to pick out the points which are actually correct! Ffs, man!

Actually having read it again - I'm still not awake properly - the "taken away in pyjamas" is not her quote at all. It's outside the quote marks so my point still stands. I think she most probably was arrested in her pyjamas.

 

[IDK]

She never commented on what she was taken away in, though. She said she was "arrested" in nightwear/attire, or however you want to put it. NJ has got her to admit to a "lie" based on an event after her arrest, ie: being taken away.

MOO, obvs.

This is how I interpreted the exchange as well. Thanks for breaking it down so clearly!

 

[Dotta]

No it doesn't. It's the specific legal point/instant of arrest.

As I mentioned earlier, for instance, her subsequent arrests would almost certainly have been at a police station when she was answering bail. Your definition could not apply in that case.

Her arrest would have been the moment she opened the door, almost certainly. Knock: knock. Door opens "Lucy Letby, I'm arresting you on suspicion of murder". She's arrested, end of.

You never give up

It was obvious that she opened the door wearing whatever she was wearing.
Or maybe it was her father who did it.

I really doubt that Police officers would humiliate a woman dragging her half naked through the streets for all neighbours to gawp.

Sorry, but "colour me doubtful".

Besides, Mr NJ KC is not a fool to shoot his own foot

JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

He offered to play it and she said NO.

If it was to her benefit, why'd she say no?

I suggest to you that she said "NO, don't play the video," because it did not look at all like the narrative she painted for the jury. They let her put on her track suit and trainers, and she probably hugged her visiting Father, and the cops were probably acting sympathetic towards her. JMO

Or, she said "no" because he said that he could contradict her by showing a video. A video he said would be of her being led away which is NOT a video of her arrest.

 

[katydid23]

But the legal[/i], and hence true, fact is that she was most probably arrested in her night attire. Therefore, she isn't lying.

NJ says that she wasn't because he can produce a video of her being "led away" in something else.

The two are different events - this is UK law we are dealing with here and an arrest has a very specific legal meaning.

Who cares---she said in court she was taken away in her pyjamas. THAT is a lie. She admitted on Friday that she lied about it.

Why the big effort to make her look truthful about something she admitted to be lying about?

 

[BabaVanga]

But the legal[/i], and hence true, fact is that she was most probably arrested in her night attire. Therefore, she isn't lying.

NJ says that she wasn't because he can produce a video of her being "led away" in something else.

The two are different events - this is UK law we are dealing with here and an arrest has a very specific legal meaning.

If she didn’t lie she wouldn’t have said I don’t know when asked why she lied to the jury! Arrested means taken whether you like it or not by the police. Just admit you’re wrong