UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #26

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Dotta said:
Mr NJ KC:

"A sad old man like me"

This was the only time I smiled during this harrowing read.

What a wicked sense of humour! :)
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Oh, I missed that bit! What time was that, if you don't mind? :)
 
marynnu said:
Sorry to ask something so basic at this stage, but do we know if LL ever went back to her own home after her first arrest? Thanks!
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I don't know if we know but I'd have thought so considering all her belongings and personal effects etc were there? I know she was bailed to her parents' house but she surely would not have been barred from returning to her own home (after the law had completed their searches) for the purpose of picking up/packing up?

Again, we don't know the full detail of her bail conditions so it's hard to say.
 
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notsure said:
Oh, I missed that bit! What time was that, if you don't mind? :)
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Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
4h

He says her explanation was 'I collect paper' 'How long has Lucy Letby had to come up with a reason, here we are now, seven years later. The best reason is I collect paper'

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
4h

Mr Johnson adds 'avid collectors are usually sad old men like me, most collectors know what they’ve got in their collection….its absolute nonsense'
 
Tortoise said:
Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
4h

He says her explanation was 'I collect paper' 'How long has Lucy Letby had to come up with a reason, here we are now, seven years later. The best reason is I collect paper'

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
4h

Mr Johnson adds 'avid collectors are usually sad old men like me, most collectors know what they’ve got in their collection….its absolute nonsense'
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Oh, brilliant!

From what I can see, that was something picked up by Dan O'Donoghue, but not The Standard.
 
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Tortoise said:
I want to know where all the other reporters went since cross-exam. It was such a great mix when we had Standard, Sky and Judith Moritz of the BBC.

Standard has done a fantastic job today, no criticism of them from me, but there's only so much one man can write and there's probably more that didn't make it to 'press'.
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I agree, it was good when we could switch between CS, sky, twitter etc because each one would have a nugget of information the others hadn’t managed to put in their update. It must be so hard to remember what’s being said while typing and also listening out for what is being said whilst you’re typing! They’re having to fire out updates at the same rate Letby was firing out post it notes during the prosecution case!

I think this is just the start of NJ’s closing, I can see him going more in depth over the coming days, linking it all up, tying it with a bow and then when he gets his redirect he gets chance to reiterate to the jury just how many ‘coincidences’ there’s allegedly been. So glad we got one of the finest prosecutors in the country for this case, it’s been so complex yet NJ has made it easier to follow especially since cross examination of LL

MOO
 
Blondiexoxo said:
I agree, it was good when we could switch between CS, sky, twitter etc because each one would have a nugget of information the others hadn’t managed to put in their update. It must be so hard to remember what’s being said while typing and also listening out for what is being said whilst you’re typing! They’re having to fire out updates at the same rate Letby was firing out post it notes during the prosecution case!

I think this is just the start of NJ’s closing, I can see him going more in depth over the coming days, linking it all up, tying it with a bow and then when he gets his redirect he gets chance to reiterate to the jury just how many ‘coincidences’ there’s allegedly been. So glad we got one of the finest prosecutors in the country for this case, it’s been so complex yet NJ has made it easier to follow especially since cross examination of LL

MOO
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I was searching for the law around prosecution closing speeches yesterday, (when I found that info about jury instructions relating to a defendant's lies) to see where it says that the prosecution gets the final word after the defence, and I couldn't find it anywhere. I'm beginning to wonder if I made it up, but I'm about 90%-ish sure that's what happened at the trial where I was on the jury. Perhaps it's just something that the judge can decide if the prosecution asks permission to reply to something? I apologise to all if I've led you down the garden path!
 
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Parker Knoll said:
I can’t get my head round that …. 7 years to get your story straight and that’s the best you can do ?
It’s insanity.
MOO
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And saying to NJ that it was just a few as well!

I don't think she'd even bothered thinking about it. Or just wanted to minimise it and hoped no one would notice the 3-digit number.
 
Tortoise said:
I was searching for the law around prosecution closing speeches yesterday, (when I found that info about jury instructions relating to a defendant's lies) to see where it says that the prosecution gets the final word after the defence, and I couldn't find it anywhere. I'm beginning to wonder if I made it up, but I'm about 90%-ish sure that's what happened at the trial where I was on the jury. Perhaps it's just something that the judge can decide if the prosecution asks permission to reply to something? I apologise to all if I've led you down the garden path!
Click to expand...

I’ve always thought prosecution gets the final rebuttal too because they have the burden of proof. But maybe that’s just in the US I must admit most of the cases I follow are US even though I’m in the UK I’m not as familiar with our way of doing things. Maybe I’ve dreamt it but I’ve always thought the same that the prosecution get the final word as they’re the ones with a case to prove.
 
Tortoise said:
I was searching for the law around prosecution closing speeches yesterday, (when I found that info about jury instructions relating to a defendant's lies) to see where it says that the prosecution gets the final word after the defence, and I couldn't find it anywhere. I'm beginning to wonder if I made it up, but I'm about 90%-ish sure that's what happened at the trial where I was on the jury. Perhaps it's just something that the judge can decide if the prosecution asks permission to reply to something? I apologise to all if I've led you down the garden path!
Click to expand...
In the USA

Closing Arguments​

"The prosecution goes first, followed by the defense and a rebuttal by the prosecution. Because the prosecution has the burden of proof, it gets the final word."

 
Blondiexoxo said:
I’ve always thought prosecution gets the final rebuttal too because they have the burden of proof. But maybe that’s just in the US I must admit most of the cases I follow are US even though I’m in the UK I’m not as familiar with our way of doing things. Maybe I’ve dreamt it but I’ve always thought the same that the prosecution get the final word as they’re the ones with a case to prove.
Click to expand...

Dotta said:
In the USA

Closing Arguments​

"The prosecution goes first, followed by the defense and a rebuttal by the prosecution. Because the prosecution has the burden of proof, it gets the final word."

Click to expand...
Have to wait and see I guess.
 
Strange question upcoming
The names Thomas and Richard, we’re they mentioned in Letby’s notes at all ?

I don’t know why I think they were, but the names ring a bell.
 
Tortoise said:
We did get to hear that the dose was increased for baby L in the opening speech. Evidence during the trial was really hard to follow for baby L.

opening speech -
"She had failed to kill Child F and so she increased the dose," the prosecutor tells the jury.
"She saw the opportunity to complete what she had attempted with Child F."
Independent experts say this was a case of "insulin poisoning" and was administered intravenously via Child L's liquid feed, jurors are told.
"The level of insulin was greater than the range the machine could measure," Mr Johnson says.

Lucy Letby trial - latest: Nurse 'adamant' she's done nothing to harm any of the babies in the case as defence begins
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I certainly remember the last part about the range the machine could measure but not the part about the dose allegedly increasing. I'm surprised we didn't see it reported when it was introduced into evidence. It's a really significant point, I think.
 
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