UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #27

[ColourPurple]

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Myers says the consultants who have accused Ms Letby 'are not neutral' he says they are 'deeply involved in what happens, we say at times they have said things deliberately to prejudice Ms Letby's position'

WTAF?

"They are deeply involved in what happens" What happens when? Worded deliberately vaguely of course, but is he implying they're responsible not LL, even though they didn't arrive until after the alleged attacks had happened? This is ridiculous . JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Ms Letby appears to be crying in the dock as Mr Myers continues to wrap up his closing speech

A timely reminder to the jury of Johnson questioning why she only seemed to cry for herself and not the babies.

JMO

 

[marynnu]

OK, we got there - I hope!

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Mr Myers invites the jury to 'apply a presumption of innocence and not a a presumption of guilt, if you do that you will reach the right verdicts, verdicts of not guilt and those are the verdicts we ask you to return'. That completes the defence closing speech

 

[Blondiexoxo]

A timely reminder to the jury of Johnson questioning why she only seemed to cry for herself and not the babies.

JMO

I’m wondering if by now the jury might be thinking the same as us. LL crying once again when her being a dedicated nurse is the topic. Yet not crying out of despair when NJ is accusing her to her face of killing babies, instead she just answered ‘no’….

MOO

 

[ColourPurple]

I’m wondering if by now the jury might be thinking the same as us. LL crying once again when her being a dedicated nurse is the topic. Yet not crying out of despair when NJ is accusing her to her face of killing babies, instead she just answered ‘no’….

MOO

Not long now till we find out exactly what the jury are thinking. I don't envy them. It's been emotionally draining just following the trial, and they've heard so much more than us, and haven't been able to discuss it like we have.

 

[Anxala]

So the judge's instructions to the jury on Monday? Do we know how many days this will involve or is it all still a bit of a moveable feast as to when the jury will retire?

 

[Blondiexoxo]

So the judge's instructions to the jury on Monday? Do we know how many days this will involve or is it all still a bit of a moveable feast as to when the jury will retire?

It seems he’s left a week to do it because he said the jury should go out on Monday 10th. Seems a long time for summing up but then it’s a complex case with lots of charges to go through. If he finishes earlier in the week though I’m not sure if they will go out before the 10th

 

[ColourPurple]

So the judge's instructions to the jury on Monday? Do we know how many days this will involve or is it all still a bit of a moveable feast as to when the jury will retire?

I wouldn't even like to hazard a guess as he has to give a summary of the evidence too

 

[CS2C]

I remember the summing up of “The Essex Boys Case” that took three full days and the trial was only 6 weeks long from memory. A week was the least I was expecting.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I still think something is yet to happen.
JMO

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I still think something is yet to happen.
JMO

Me too, I know that NJ knows this case inside out, his ears must have pricked up at various points throughout this week. Both defence and prosecution are allowed to try and discredit witnesses and offer alternate explanations. However IMO they must stick to the facts when giving their opinions, they must not lie to the jury, and they cannot throw accusations about witnesses around unless there is valid reason.

Did BM ever question any witnesses about other collapses that didn’t involve LL?
Did BM ever bring up the air embolism research study to Dr Evans or Dr Jayaram and allow them to answer to why they relied on an apparently old research study when giving their evidence?
Did BM ever put the accusations about Dr Evans being an unreliable witness in other cases to Dr Evans on the stand and allow him to answer?

Those are just 3 points that I hadn’t heard before but I know there are more. The things he accused Dr Evans if I hadn’t heard brought up when he was giving evidence. As far as I know barristers aren’t allowed to just introduce random bits of evidence during closing. I’m honestly surprised BM wasn’t stopped by the judge at some point but then I imagine if he did then that could eventually become an appeal issue if BM was interjected by the judge.

MOO

 

[Dcflag]

I bet the jury will be glad to retire. I’m certainly glad this week is over with. It still frustrates me no end because it feels to me like the defence case was purely the opening and closing speeches, it’s such a waste. It frustrates me because while I have my own opinion, I want to be challenged. I want the defence to show up and have their case backed up and be able to present their case through the evidence and the witnesses. I just don’t feel like he’s done that. Whether that’s poor reporting or whether he’s actually just not done that is anyone’s guess.

I really wanted the defence to provide some real thinking points to really challenge the prosecution and hopefully make the jury really have some things to discuss when they retire. I want whatever verdicts they turn in to be the result of hearing all the sides and going from there. It just doesn’t feel like he’s done that to me.

 

[Dcflag]

Me too, I know that NJ knows this case inside out, his ears must have pricked up at various points throughout this week. Both defence and prosecution are allowed to try and discredit witnesses and offer alternate explanations. However IMO they must stick to the facts when giving their opinions, they must not lie to the jury, and they cannot throw accusations about witnesses around unless there is valid reason.

Did BM ever question any witnesses about other collapses that didn’t involve LL?
Did BM ever bring up the air embolism research study to Dr Evans or Dr Jayaram and allow them to answer to why they relied on an apparently old research study when giving their evidence?
Did BM ever put the accusations about Dr Evans being an unreliable witness in other cases to Dr Evans on the stand and allow him to answer?

Those are just 3 points that I hadn’t heard before but I know there are more. The things he accused Dr Evans if I hadn’t heard brought up when he was giving evidence. As far as I know barristers aren’t allowed to just introduce random bits of evidence during closing. I’m honestly surprised BM wasn’t stopped by the judge at some point but then I imagine if he did then that could eventually become an appeal issue if BM was interjected by the judge.

MOO

I’m pretty sure they did discuss why they relied on the old research paper (it’s so rare there just hasn’t been many studies, so this research paper was the best they could refer to) and I might be wrong but I’m also sure I remember dr evans discussing the unreliable witness issue, and it have come about from a letter he wrote to a solicitor being entered to the judge when it shouldn’t have been? As it wasn’t any kind of fully formed evidence.

Im also not sure if there were any collapses that didn’t involve LL in the sense that she was still on shift and on the ward. She just wasn’t placed in the room at the time like the others. Again I could be wrong! It’s been a LONG almost year

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Then again I think the jury should be able to realise that although BM had all these alternative explanations, he never introduced any evidence to try and prove a single one. So I don’t think NJ getting another turn is really necessary when you look at what must be folders and folders of prosecution evidence, compared to two little names ‘Letby & Plumber’ for the defence….

And what was the point in the plumber? I don’t think poor Lorenzo even got a mention in that closing speech. So why exactly did BM have him testify? It obviously had no bearing on the case as he hasn’t mentioned it atall. Plus he has asked the jury to disregard pretty much all of LL’s testimony and just listen to his facts and theories. He has literally discredited his own witness again after she had already done a pretty good job of that herself. Any credibility LL may have had is in my eyes now in tatters, like shredded post it notes whistling in the wind…..

MOO

 

[Kemug]

I am putting my trust in the judge.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I’m pretty sure they did discuss why they relied on the old research paper (it’s so rare there just hasn’t been many studies, so this research paper was the best they could refer to) and I might be wrong but I’m also sure I remember dr evans discussing the unreliable witness issue, and it have come about from a letter he wrote to a solicitor being entered to the judge when it shouldn’t have been? As it wasn’t any kind of fully formed evidence.

Im also not sure if there were any collapses that didn’t involve LL in the sense that she was still on shift and on the ward. She just wasn’t placed in the room at the time like the others. Again I could be wrong! It’s been a LONG almost year

I really feel for Dr Evans and Dr Jayaram, they have had BM try and discredit every single word they’ve said for the last week, not only that but trash their reputations, their honesty, their motives and they aren’t the ones on trial here.

LL not being there for some collapses doesn’t say as much to me as the fact that once she was removed from the unit the unusual collapses stopped. And people will say ‘oh the unit was downgraded so they didn’t have poorly babies anymore’ that isn’t a very valid point IMO when you look at how these babies were doing well, many would have been in the unit even after it was downgraded as there were 33 weekers, there were babies who yes had been born prematurely but were celebrating their 100 day milestone meaning they were over 3 months old, there were babies who were literally days away from being allowed home, I personally don’t think the downgrading of the unit and the unexplained collapses stopping are in any way related IMO because in some cases the babies would have been in COCH NNU regardless of what level it was classed.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

I really feel for Dr Evans and Dr Jayaram, they have had BM try and discredit every single word they’ve said for the last week, they aren’t the ones on trial here.

MOO

I agree.
What a disgrace!
I get immediately angry when I think about it

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I'm not sure whether to expect reporting of the judge's summing up next week. That would have to be one brave reporter to sit through and report on a summary of the evidence they've already reported (well partially - there were some gaps during the trial).

 

[Tortoise]

I agree.
What a disgrace!
I get immediately angry when I think about it

JMO

It infuriates me. He's basically accusing them of not accusing her, when his case is there is no evidence! And accusations of lacking integrity and skills, against the most remarkable and outstanding human beings (IMO). A very, very ugly attack, based on LL's say so.

 

[Becky53]

Case against Lucy Letby 'incomplete and inconsistent'

THE case against murder-accused nurse Lucy Letby is "incomplete and inconsistent", a court was told, as the defence speech ended today (Friday, June 30).

The nine-month trial at Manchester Crown Court of Lucy Letby, 33, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more, is entering its final stages.

Benjamin Myers KC, giving his fifth and final day of the defence closing speech, told jurors to use their knowledge of the case to look at the evidence, and entrusted them to analyse it as they have done "over the past nine months of their lives".

…

As Letby wiped away tears in the dock, Mr Myers said it was easy to lose sight of the person behind the allegations, and of who she was. He called on the jury not to rely on the "caricature" created by the prosecution case.

Mr Myers said Letby took on extra shifts and was flexible in her work. He added: "She was hard-working, she was deeply committed, she had a happy life, she loved her work...and loved being a nurse, so was there when these incidents happened.

"For a system that wanted to apportion blame for when it failed, she was the obvious target ...[as] she was there."



Case against Lucy Letby 'incomplete and inconsistent', court told