GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #31

[acutename]

It must have been horrifying and terrifying after they had been doing crash cart resuscitations repeatedly, losing many of the babies, so unexpectedly.

And when they first politely suggested to Nurse Letby that she might need to take a break after a few traumatic losses, and close calls, she rejected the idea and asked for MORE turns in nursery one, not less. That was even more horrifying, I am sure.

this reminds me of the firefighters that start fires....

 

[acutename]

Hi. Haven’t been on here for a while. I’m not sure if this has been mentioned before but what I find strange is howcolkeagues didn’t notice anything unusual at the time. Insulin isn’t a controlled drug to be signed for but surely someone kept a check on the insulin supplies and would have noticed more being used. And surely someone would have seen her putting insulin in a drip. Basically - surely other staff on duty with her would have had conversations - like - I’m just going to do xyz. There would have been patient care plans.

Unless she was in sole charge at various times? It was definitely premeditated because she used medical knowledge knowing an overdose of insulin kills and is hard to trace. MOO

were they all killed with insulin? have only just read about this and I thought I saw a statement that the causes were different...

 

[sriraaacha]

Just been reading about this case in more detail today, heard about it for the first time quite a while ago but never really looked into it much. This is just... such a strange one. Wanting to kill random babies that you don't even know? I suppose there were underlying reasons although on surface level they're not obvious. I read about the older guy she supposedly had a flirty relationship with at work and it seemed as though she wanted to attract his attention and work with him on trying to save the kids? Then maybe make him sympathize with her because she kept saying she didn't feel good enough?

Good to see that she's gotten a whole life sentence, but seriously messed up and so sad for the kids' families. Also so scary to think that you never know who somebody is, whether they're a nurse, police officer, teacher... you never truly know somebody's intentions even if they have power or are considered to be trustworthy people.

 

[IDK]

Killer nurse created 'crisis situations' to attract married colleague

The nurse and the medic went on day trips to London, met up for walks and meals together in their free time away from the hospital, and swapped hundreds of messages on Facebook,

www.dailymail.co.uk

Has this article been discussed yet? I know we know some of these things but it was an interesting read. JMO

For people that were asking, this is the article that has more details about LL and the doctor friend who was 17 years older than her with teen age children?! So inappropriate on both sides, IMO!! I had thought maybe he was 5-10 years older, not almost 20!

Sounds like he’s done well for himself with a cushy job at another hospital. I do feel bad for his family though.

 

[Stella123]

---

The Doctor was clearly more than a friend. I don’t think his wife would have liked the going out for meals and walks and trips to London. What seems strange is when two other paediatricians - at least one a consultant - had suspicions about her for some time - this Doctor friend believed in her and reassured her. Didn’t he talk to his colleagues? Didn’t he think the numbers were unusual? Or was he just taken in?

 

[Kemug]

I don't think we have downvotes here haha, but don't worry, I agree. I don't feel sorry for her parents whatsoever.

(eta: I agree with Rusty Braincells, I'd feel sorry for them if they acknowledged her guilt and expressed empathy with the parents of the babies their daughter murdered)

They might in time do just that.

 

[IDK]

---

The Doctor was clearly more than a friend. I don’t think his wife would have liked the going out for meals and walks and trips to London. What seems strange is when two other paediatricians - at least one a consultant - had suspicions about her for some time - this Doctor friend believed in her and reassured her. Didn’t he talk to his colleagues? Didn’t he think the numbers were unusual? Or was he just taken in?

I wondered if the other doctors noticed his interest in LL, and therefore didn’t feel comfortable discussing their suspicions with him?

 

[Stella123]

An off the wall theory and in no way excusing what she’s done. But if she was having an affair with this married Doctor and having to keep it secret, feeling trapped, and with low self esteem knowing he was with his wife, could it have driven her crazy into this munchsusens state? I knew someone once who had been in a secret affair with a married man for over a decade. All secret. She couldn’t break it off because she was so caught up in the double life. And it did drive her a bit crazy. But then killing babies is another level altogether. What sickens me is she used her medical knowledge to kill them.

 

[Stella123]

It kind of fits with the theory she was seeking his attention.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Insulin is not controlled and the amount taken would be miniscule.
it took very little to kill a baby, possibly not even noticed from the vial.
She may even have had a way to reseal the vials so they appeared untouched.

In many hospitals - there is a vial.of.insulin all the doses are drawn from. AND is some countries insulin is rather easily.obtained.

 

[Sundial]

For people that were asking, this is the article that has more details about LL and the doctor friend who was 17 years older than her with teen age children?! So inappropriate on both sides, IMO!! I had thought maybe he was 5-10 years older, not almost 20!

Sounds like he’s done well for himself with a cushy job at another hospital. I do feel bad for his family though.

So they were “friends” and yet LL still searched his spouse (of 25 years of marriage) multiple times on fb (along with all the other fb searches of the parents) and made references to his wife in her messages. Meanwhile, they were meeting up, having meals, walks, him visting her home etc, very cosy. I can completely understand now why he wanted that screen. You play with fire, as they say….

 

[katydid23]

What took so long to come to a guilty verdict?

There were a lot of charges and 9 months worth of evidence and expert medical testimony. It was a very complex case.

It is a miracle that ALL of the murder charges came back with a Guilty verdict. IMO

 

[katydid23]

were they all killed with insulin? have only just read about this and I thought I saw a statement that the causes were different...

None of the babies died from insulin poisoning. Two were poisoned but recovered. The murdered babies died from various methods---air embolisms from air injected into the lines, blunt force traumas to internal organs and being force fed way too much.

 

[katydid23]

I wondered if the other doctors noticed his interest in LL, and therefore didn’t feel comfortable discussing their suspicions with him?

I think they did tell him---and he sent LL the private email with info, didn't he? IIRC....

And he doubled down and promised her that he would have her back, no matter what. And they continued to see each other, even after she was taken off the unit.

 

[Eloise]

Hi. Haven’t been on here for a while. I’m not sure if this has been mentioned before but what I find strange is howcolkeagues didn’t notice anything unusual at the time. Insulin isn’t a controlled drug to be signed for but surely someone kept a check on the insulin supplies and would have noticed more being used. And surely someone would have seen her putting insulin in a drip. Basically - surely other staff on duty with her would have had conversations - like - I’m just going to do xyz. There would have been patient care plans.

Unless she was in sole charge at various times? It was definitely premeditated because she used medical knowledge knowing an overdose of insulin kills and is hard to trace. MOO

Colleagues did notice. Doctors tried for a long time to have her investigated, but they were ordered by management to shut up and apologise to LL. She was protected by management.

What took so long to come to a guilty verdict?

Lots of charges, lots of evidence to go through. Turns out they were giving partial verdicts along the way anyway, and it was a few attempted murder charges holding them up (the ones that they're hung on).

Just been reading about this case in more detail today, heard about it for the first time quite a while ago but never really looked into it much. This is just... such a strange one. Wanting to kill random babies that you don't even know? I suppose there were underlying reasons although on surface level they're not obvious. I read about the older guy she supposedly had a flirty relationship with at work and it seemed as though she wanted to attract his attention and work with him on trying to save the kids? Then maybe make him sympathize with her because she kept saying she didn't feel good enough?

Good to see that she's gotten a whole life sentence, but seriously messed up and so sad for the kids' families. Also so scary to think that you never know who somebody is, whether they're a nurse, police officer, teacher... you never truly know somebody's intentions even if they have power or are considered to be trustworthy people.

to the latter part of your post, I think that's why systems are so important so we never have to place someone's whole entire life in the hands of just one person who is able to act alone without surveillance or accountability. And when someone is complained about by multiple other staff who bring serious concerns to management, management have to listen.

 

[Kemug]

Well done to Dr Brearey for calling this out. Absolutely appalling.

Hospital bosses ignored months of doctors' warnings about Lucy Letby - BBC News

Hospital bosses failed to investigate allegations and tried to silence doctors, BBC investigation finds.

www.bbc.co.uk

But he and his mates must so wish they had been wrong.

 

[minusfour]

I have no doubt there will be very real changes in healthcare after this. There were after Harold Shipman's convictions. The changes will probably not, IMO, address understaffing type issues, but I hope they will make management much more accountable. If a problem is raised, it needs to be properly investigated.

I really hope that the people involved in "managing" in this case are held to account.

 

[Kemug]

An update from Chester reportedly stating;

“Lucy Letby has stated she will not be present at her sentencing next week Monday 21st August 2023 of her evil crimes at the Countess of Chester between June 2015 and June 2016.”

Not sure how much truth is in this but given the fact she refused to come up from the cells and the judge reportedly stated as not being able to force her, I wouldn’t be surprised. Absolutely disgusting, hiding like a coward instead of taking the consequence which has been rightly handed to her.

You expected her to have redeeming features?

 

[Kemug]

I've seen people on here saying she enjoyed killing. I don't think that's necessarily the case. It could have been some kind of sick compulsion, with no enjoyment involved.

But surely having a sick compulsion to kill doesn't mean she also needed to find it so exciting, be cruel to the parents, keep track of the parents, etc?

 

[Kemug]

As long as justice is done, does it matter that much if the defendant is there?

Not to you and me, not to the general public, not to the law profession - but if it matters to the victim's families, then yes, it matters. IMO