GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

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sleuth777

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ADMIN NOTE:

This is a trial thread to discuss the trial only. It is not a general discussion thread.

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notsure said:
I know - I've read the article :)

She quotes Letby's friend, Dawn: "The only way I'd ever believe that she's guilty is if she tells me she's guilty," she said.

The writer says "I was struck by Dawn's certainty, but my own mind was far less settled. Like Dawn, I needed to hear directly from the nurse herself."

Then, after 10 months in Letby's presence, she is no clearer about her. As she states at the end, it's all down to how the jury feel about her.
Click to expand...

She also says, about the defendant:

I found it interesting that while the nurse remained composed throughout months of evidence relating to the terrible suffering of tiny babies, her first sign of emotion seemed to be borne out of pangs of longing for this doctor.

...snip....

Much later, when lead prosecutor Nick Johnson KC got to his feet to start cross-examining Letby, his first question was one I'd been wondering too.

"Is there any reason that you cry when you talk about yourself," he asked, "but you don't cry when talking about these dead and seriously injured children?"

...snip...

I spent time compiling them [her texts] and started to spot some interesting themes. Quite often she'd text other nurses to tell them about her involvement with babies who had collapsed - it looked like she was fishing for sympathy.

Certain messages hinted at a possible God complex.

...snip...

We were deep into the prosecution case, and I still couldn't marry up Letby's apparent normality with the enormity of the allegations she was facing - but the case against her was beginning to stack up.

...snip...

I started to detect certain phrases she had on repeat. Asked about the Facebook searches she made for the babies' parents she replied: "That was a normal pattern of behaviour for me."
And asked about taking nursing documents home with her, and storing them? "That was a normal pattern of behaviour for me," she said. It sounded rehearsed.

...snip...
The prosecutor picked holes in her testimony, pointing out the differences between what she'd told the police after her arrest, and what she was saying in court. He found examples of her disagreeing with herself - highlighting evidence she had previously agreed and was now disputing.

...
They had her on the ropes....

In total, Letby spent 14 days in the witness box and faced nearly 60 hours of questioning - but did I feel any clearer about her true self? No.
 
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Stella123 said:
An off the wall theory and in no way excusing what she’s done. But if she was having an affair with this married Doctor and having to keep it secret, feeling trapped, and with low self esteem knowing he was with his wife, could it have driven her crazy into this munchsusens state? I knew someone once who had been in a secret affair with a married man for over a decade. All secret. She couldn’t break it off because she was so caught up in the double life. And it did drive her a bit crazy. But then killing babies is another level altogether. What sickens me is she used her medical knowledge to kill them.
Click to expand...

She was harming babies before the Doc started working there.
 
katydid23 said:
I think both things can be true. I think she had a deep compulsion but it was also a means to an end for her. In other words her deep desire and need for attention and praise drove her to commit these unforgivable acts.

It seemed like an uncontrollable urge in some ways, when you look at some cases. Like when she was away on vacation for 8 days in June of 2016, the the very morning she returns, she attacked baby O, a healthy triplet boy. And later that very same day she began her attacks upon his brother. And the following day, even though there was lots of suspicion growing and a group of doctors were demanding she be taken off the unit, she quickly assaults a 3rd child.

She seemed to be out of control at that point---acting recklessly, IMO.

But I totally agree that she was seeking praise and sympathy and was insatiable. JMO
Click to expand...
Was this just after she texted her colleague saying she would be back with bang? MOO
 
d0lphin said:
We can speculate in the reasons for killing / harming the babies and professionals can give the opinions but the only way we'll know for sure why she acted this way is if she talks. Does anyone think she may do so in the future?
Click to expand...
I actually think — based on nothing but my own opinion — that she won’t.

The thing about Lucy that bugged me is that she seems so defeated. I follow a lot of true crimes stories like so many of you, and the killers usually come across to me as cocky, feeling like they are the smartest in the room. To me Lucy appeared so long as someone who had been unjustly accused and had just resigned herself to what was happening to her. Her behavior — facade, is like nothing I’ve ever seen before. It’s why I struggled with making up my mind about her for so long.

But then I landed at this. She’s done evil things, but a part of her, probably a small part knows this and feels guilty (‘I don’t deserve mom and dad, I’m a horrible person’). That part of her knows she belongs in prison, which is why she never really protested her innocence in a manner that you’d expect from someone unjustly being accused of murdering babies. And then the other part of her, that thrives on sympathy, enjoys looking so sad and depressed because she’s still getting the attention she craves from her parents, her friends, her supporters. She keeps up the defeated facade for them. Not because she thinks she’s innocent, but for their attention.

In my opinion, based on nothing but my own thoughts.
 
The ones (other than the babies) who suffer the most and the longest are the parents, almost wondering if that was the point.
Did she see herself as one of the babies, was she symbolically committing suicide through their deaths, then gathering strength from the pain and anguish that causes the child's mother and father.?

Essentially, LL killed herself and her parents too when she killed those babies and someone else's daddy to comfort her after she did it.
imo, speculation.
 
d0lphin said:
We can speculate in the reasons for killing / harming the babies and professionals can give the opinions but the only way we'll know for sure why she acted this way is if she talks. Does anyone think she may do so in the future?
Click to expand...
She may agree to do interviews, if the prison allows it. She might like the attention. But I don't think she will ever admit to anything---never ever, IMO.
 
Nali87 said:
I also found it interesting that Lucy told Dawn and her other friends who are sticking by her NOT to come to the trial. I wonder if they even realize that this may have been a tactic to keep them in the dark.
Click to expand...
Didn't someone also mention that LL created a rift between her parents and her defense attorney, BM, so they never speak to each other? The first thing I thought was that it was a tactic by her to keep her parents in the dark.
 
I think this text message gives us a clue to some of her motivation - it's about the parents. (She could say it's about the poor babies who lost their chance at life or who suffered, but she doesn't).

'It's not about me or anyone else, it's these poor parents who have to walk away without their baby. There are no words, it's been awful.'


www.dailymail.co.uk

Revealed: Disturbing texts Lucy Letby sent while murdering babies

The 33-year-old killer messaged her colleagues after murdering little babies, feigning heartbreak and innocence.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
d0lphin said:
We can speculate in the reasons for killing / harming the babies and professionals can give the opinions but the only way we'll know for sure why she acted this way is if she talks. Does anyone think she may do so in the future?
Click to expand...
I would not be at all surprised if she has absolutely no idea herself why she did any of it.
 
cuecard said:
See I don’t find the cards from pets overly strange - my parents usually give me a card from my dogs with their pics on it - but I did find LL came across at times as quite, maybe immature is the incorrect word, but younger than her age. I remember thinking that at the time when the notes were revealed, like putting love hearts around a guys name, love quotes, writing her pets names etc it reminded me of something a teenager would do and then the teddy underneath her duvet as well. It all felt quite teenager-ish.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if you can infantilise yourself but you make a good point and maybe its possible.
 
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