GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

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She had been diagnosed with optic neuritis in 2015 which is sometimes treated with steroids. Apparently it can also be a precursor to MS.

in her arrest video, she also mentioned a recent knee injury— or was it a recent surgery? Maybe why her dad was staying with her?

I’m not saying these are related, just interesting to note, IMO.
Found something

"She told the court her health was “fine” in 2015 and 2016, although in 2015 she had been diagnosed with optic neuritis, a condition caused by inflammation of the optic nerve which can cause pain and blurred vision."

"In June 2016 she confided to a doctor colleague about a problem with an underactive thyroid.


She told him: “I’ve been hypothyroid since I was 11, having blips last 12 months, just increased dose again to see if that does the trick…last time it was increased I was over treated & had tremors etc..”


"As she was placed in the back of a police car during her first arrest she told an officer, who offered to move the front passenger seat forward, that she had recently undergone knee surgery."

Unless there is evidence of her being hypothyroid, it does sound a bit munchausens.

 
Sure, I’ve read it several places, but this it the first article that popped up when I googled it just now:

“She told the court her health was “fine” in 2015 and 2016, although in 2015 she had been diagnosed with optic neuritis, a condition caused by inflammation of the optic nerve which can cause pain and blurred vision.

Letby received treatment at the Countess and also at the Walton Centre in Liverpool before the issue was “resolved”.

Thanks! Just found the same link! (Above). And surprised to see her talk about hypothyroidism.
 
Maybe she wanted to be caught?
To finish this deadly game?

She doesn't struck me as a person vehemently claiming her innocence.

Her parents seemed to fight more than her.

She looked resigned as if reconciled with her fate.

JMO
I tend to agree with this.

She is a deeply troubled person with some very serious mental health/personality issues going on, as far as I can determine.
 

“My suggestion would be to make sure that there was a live link beamed into the cell of the sound and/or send pictures to ensure that Letby has nowhere to hide and in fact has to listen to what the judge is saying about the case,” he said.

“Most importantly, she needs to hear the victim’s personal statements as impact statements that will really bring home, I think, to the wider world, the appalling devastating impact the loss of these innocent children, these innocent babies, has had upon dozens of families.”

Jesus, he really needs to read up on the case!

Yes the parents should have a chance to make their statements and share their grief and the "wider world" will be moved by that... but the kind of murderer who deliberately chose to try to kill babies on significant dates like their 100 day birthday, due date, fathers day to cause as much pain to their parents as possible, enjoyed being the one to make memory boxes when the babies died, stalked the parents Facebook pages after the babies deaths and had to be told to stop going into the room where parents were spending time with their dying baby... is not going to suddenly become moved and remorseful by hearing the devasting impact her actions had on the babies parents. She actually fed off their grief! She'd enjoy it!
 
She had been diagnosed with optic neuritis in 2015 which is sometimes treated with steroids. Apparently it can also be a precursor to MS.

in her arrest video, she also mentioned a recent knee injury— or was it a recent surgery? Maybe why her dad was staying with her?

I’m not saying these are related, just interesting to note, IMO.
I believe LL stated knee surgery when being directed into the police vehicle.
 
Found something

"She told the court her health was “fine” in 2015 and 2016, although in 2015 she had been diagnosed with optic neuritis, a condition caused by inflammation of the optic nerve which can cause pain and blurred vision."

"In June 2016 she confided to a doctor colleague about a problem with an underactive thyroid.


She told him: “I’ve been hypothyroid since I was 11, having blips last 12 months, just increased dose again to see if that does the trick…last time it was increased I was over treated & had tremors etc..”


"As she was placed in the back of a police car during her first arrest she told an officer, who offered to move the front passenger seat forward, that she had recently undergone knee surgery."

Unless there is evidence of her being hypothyroid, it does sound a bit munchausens.

Just spitballing here but what if.......
a person with Munchausens Syndrome is drawn into wanting a career in healthcare and ends up developing M By Proxy?

Only cause I noticed that a core group with Munchausens Syndrome are, according to NHS website

  • women who are 20 to 40 years of age, often with a background in healthcare'
( Link also lists common comorbid personality disorders associated with MS)

Like you, would be very interested to see a Psych eval and her med records ( I don't anticipate getting either)
 
All I’ve heard is he’s bald and not particularly attractive . Not sure if that’s true and this may get deleted :D
I know many young women who are more than happy to date, and are attracted to, balding middle-aged men.

He may well have a string of much younger women in his history - in fact, I'd put money on it!
 
"She began her paediatric nursing degree course at Chester University, another cathedral city not dissimilar to her hometown, in September 2008.

It was unlikely to have been her first experience of medicine, however. At the age of 11, she was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid, a condition which can cause tiredness, weight gain and depression in sufferers.

Untreated it can also impair fertility and lead to problems in pregnancy. It is also likely to have brought her into contact with the medical profession for the first time, involving frequent visits to the GP and specialists
. Later she also developed optic neuritis, a condition caused by inflammation of the optic nerve which can cause pain and blurred vision.

During the trial she revealed the thyroid medication sometimes made her grumpy, texting one friend 'everyone peeing me off.'

If she was possibly concerned about the possibility of being infertile, then working with neonatal babies was not the best job for her.

 
"I killed them on purpose" says it all!
It doesn't, though.

Not by any stretch of the imagination.

The, "I killed them on purpose" statement, is a total enigma.

The usual suspects will make a living giving TV interviews saying that they can explain stuff like this but they can't.
 
Gobsmacking comparison - 18 days vs circa 18months

Dr Minh Alexander retired consultant psychiatrist writes -

'There are troubling similarities between the system responses to concerns raised about about Beverley Allitt and Letby, with the difference being much greater delay in Letby’s case.
....
Allitt’s killings occurred over a two month span. NHS staff were criticised by the inquiry for not acting quickly enough after the possibility of insulin poisoning first arose, with an ensuing interval of eighteen days before the policed were notified.
In Letby’s case, the first insulin poisoning occurred in August 2015 and then again in April 2016. She was not removed from clinical duties until after June 2016, and the police were not asked to investigate until March 2017, announced in May 2017.'


Dr Minh Alexander ends her article with this:

'It is quite possible, if not likely, that there will be many questions and superficial handwringing but little real learning.

It is not reassuring that NHS England and the government have rejected Tom Kark KC’s 2019 recommendation to introduce a disbarring mechanism to remove unfit senior managers from the NHS.
Neither is it reassuring that there seems to be a highly irregular government review of UK whistleblowing law in progress.

The 1991 Beverly Allitt killings accuse the NHS, from across the decades, of a failure to learn.
There are too many similarities between Allitt and Letby for comfort.

The Guardian asked for my opinion and I have highlighted senior NHS managers’ lack of competence in dealing with bad news and the literally fatal weakness of UK whistleblowing law.

My condolences to all affected by the actions of Allitt and Letby, and those who failed to protect the public when it was in their power to do so.'
 
If she is a narcissist she may have no insight into her behaviour. Rather than psychiatrists - maybe she should be having a psychological profiling. That could reveal the lack of empathy for others and reveal a lack of insight into what is right and wrong.
I have absolutely no training or experience in any of this but I am 100% convinced that she has very little, if any, appreciation of her personality or of her acts, other than knowing that that they are considered wrong by the majority of society.

Edit: I would venture to suggest that she does not even understand why what she did was wrong, despite knowing that it was.
 
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I totally get what you're saying here, truly I do, but I think that Lucy Letby is different to possibly every other serial murderer who has ever been caught to date.

Yes, I agree with the whole thing of serial killers often do not present as monsters (if they did they wouldn't have been serial killers as they'd been identified much earlier) but LL is the extreme example of that, imo. There is literally nothing in her back story which suggests that she has any proclivities towards violence, sadism, abuse or anything similar. The press have had more than five years to dig up dirt on her and anyone who knows her has had the same period to say things about her on the internet yet we have the sum total of absolutely zero as to her being nothing other than 100%, completely normal.

In literally every other serial killer story there is a prior history of abuse, harming of animals, a horribly abusive upbringing, strange sexual desires, being anti-social, being a loner, etc, etc. There is none of that as regards Lucy Letby. If there were we'd definitely have heard about it by now.

I think they may actually be struggling to fill out the usual "world's most evil killers" type documentary due to her literally having no prior issues at all.

A serial killer who was generally well liked, had an active social life and whom no one ever had a bad word to say about and had no terrible upbringing is an exceptionally rare thing. I can't think of any others.

The usual speculation as to what drove her is starting in the media and online, including here, and the usual suspects are chiming in with things like Munchausen's and suchlike. I feel that people are reaching for easy answers, though, and in her case there are no easy answers.

Human nature is very strange as to needing answers; on the one hand people crave easy answers to things like serial killers - which there rarely are, especially in this case, I think. On the other hand, the simple and often obvious answers, people refuse to accept because they can't deal with the simplicity of them and that such things can happen so easily. Look at the JFK assassination; millions of people absolutely refuse to accept the fact that a single person, acting alone could murder the most powerful man in the world with such ease and end up creating ridiculous and hugely convoluted conspiracy theories to explain it, often (always?) requiring the total disregard of the facts and, as in JFK, the bending of the laws of physics. It really is very strange.

I don't think we'll ever know what motivated Lucy Letby to do what she did. The oft repeated phrase of only she knows why she did it is making its usual appearance but I think it's a virtual certainty that she herself doesn't know why she did any of this.

Scientists for 130 years or so have wondered what condition afflicted Joseph Merrick - the so called Elephant Man. I've heard it mentioned that his condition may have been unique to him and should be named "Joseph Merrick Syndrome". Given the extreme strangeness of Lucy Letby's case perhaps she'll open a new definition in clinical/criminal psychology?

She is a genuinely very frightening person, in my opinion. Very frightening indeed.
Really interesting and thought-provoking post.
 
It doesn't, though.

Not by any stretch of the imagination.

The, "I killed them on purpose" statement, is a total enigma.

The usual suspects will make a living giving TV interviews saying that they can explain stuff like this but they can't.
If people accept that she's guilty of murder and attempted murder but think that "I killed them on purpose" meant something other than "I killed them on purpose"... so be it. Each to their own. Thank God we don't need to debate it any more ;)
 
If people accept that she's guilty of murder and attempted murder but think that "I killed them on purpose" meant something other than "I killed them on purpose"... so be it. Each to their own. Thank God we don't need to debate it any more ;)
Quite! It's only ambiguous until you know she did in fact kill them on purpose. After that it's a plain confession and the "I haven't done anything wrong" is a plain lie.
 
On the Panorama video, they interview a criminologist who says he has worked with a lot of serial killers, who says things like "I killed them on purpose" and "I did it" on that note - are the kind of things people write when they are expressing stress at what people are saying about them. Looking at the whole note not just those phrases. He suggests it could mean "They are alleging" I killed them on purpose. Or "they are alleging" I did it. Because when someone is panicking and stressed they are expressing their thoughts and fears.

I found that interesting. He said you shouldn't take it literally. Standing alone those statements look like an admission of guilt. And the prosecution said the jury should take them literally.

It might explain why there are contradictory statements on the note. Like "I did nothing wrong".
 
Not saying I agree with it, but he put it quite well in the interview.
 
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