GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[Marantz4250b]

Considering additional suspicious deaths, she seemed (allegedly) to be "out of control" ALL the time, not only at the end as NJ KC said.

Also
How STRANGE that her parents read "victim statement"!!! and not she herself at the Trust meeting.

Curiouser and curiouser

JMO

If she has some issue such as autism I can totally see that as not in any way being unusual.

Doing a job and giving personal representations are two completely separate issues.

True story: a person very close to me, and who is the youngest female to attain her qualification in a very male orientated field, gets other people (including me) to do things like phone calls and suchlike for her as her anxiety is literally crippling at times. This is a person who can quite literally prevent someone from doing their job and she often takes her dad with her to business meetings - not totally unusual as he's in the same industry, but, you see what I'm getting at.

 

[DianaWW]

Not saying I agree with it, but he put it quite well in the interview.

The interview was before the verdict though, and the same criminologist has given several interviews since the verdict , giving his armchair diagnosis’s without ever having met LL in person or attending the trial . I just can’t take people like that seriously. We’ll see alot of them now as well I think.

 

[Stella123]

Good point.

 

[esther43]

On the Panorama video, they interview a criminologist who says he has worked with a lot of serial killers, who says things like "I killed them on purpose" and "I did it" on that note - are the kind of things people write when they are expressing stress at what people are saying about them. Looking at the whole note not just those phrases. He suggests it could mean "They are alleging" I killed them on purpose. Or "they are alleging" I did it. Because when someone is panicking and stressed they are expressing their thoughts and fears.

I found that interesting. He said you shouldn't take it literally. Standing alone those statements look like an admission of guilt. And the prosecution said the jury should take them literally.

It might explain why there are contradictory statements on the note. Like "I did nothing wrong".

I can see what he's saying on face value but it's when you tied it together with the the other stuff that it makes sense.
I thought it was very smart of the prosecution to release it first. It was there in the back of your mind, I think everyone was aware that it could have been a false confession. It was really only when scrutinising the evidence and when seeing other strange behaviours such as the texting and 'predicting' that one could get an overall perspective on LL's mind set.
In the end, not much was said about the note.
It did have a way though of capturing your attention from the start.

 

[katydid23]

Former minister suggests broadcasting Lucy Letby’s sentencing to her cell

Tory Robert Buckland, a former justice secretary, says killer nurse should have ‘nowhere to hide’ if she won’t attend court

www.theguardian.com

“My suggestion would be to make sure that there was a live link beamed into the cell of the sound and/or send pictures to ensure that Letby has nowhere to hide and in fact has to listen to what the judge is saying about the case,” he said.

“Most importantly, she needs to hear the victim’s personal statements as impact statements that will really bring home, I think, to the wider world, the appalling devastating impact the loss of these innocent children, these innocent babies, has had upon dozens of families.”

The scary part is, IMO, she might enjoy hearing from the families about how devastating her actions were. Like music to her ears?

 

[Music2022]

Jesus, he really needs to read up on the case!

Yes the parents should have a chance to make their statements and share their grief and the "wider world" will be moved by that... but the kind of murderer who deliberately chose to try to kill babies on significant dates like their 100 day birthday, due date, fathers day to cause as much pain to their parents as possible, enjoyed being the one to make memory boxes when the babies died, stalked the parents Facebook pages after the babies deaths and had to be told to stop going into the room where parents were spending time with their dying baby... is not going to suddenly become moved and remorseful by hearing the devasting impact her actions had on the babies parents. She actually fed off their grief! She'd enjoy it!

Exactly. The previous secretary has such a childish way of thinking. Scary to think he was in a position of power at some point, being so naive.

 

[DianaWW]

If she has some issue such as autism I can totally see that as not in any way being unusual.

Doing a job and giving personal representations are two completely separate issues.

True story: a person very close to me, and who is the youngest female to attain her qualification in a very male orientated field, gets other people (including me) to do things like phone calls and suchlike for her as her anxiety is literally crippling at times. This is a person who can quite literally prevent someone from doing their job and she often takes her dad with her to business meetings - not totally unusual as he's in the same industry, but, you see what I'm getting at.

I do see what you’re getting at, but there’s zero evidence that this is the case here, zero evidence that she is autistic or neurodiverse. And she certainly isn’t afraid to stand up for herself as far as I can tell.

Her dad sold radiators, her mum was an accounts clerk, so they weren’t in the medical field so that doesn’t apply either.

IMO she fought because she wanted to see what they knew. And also because her parents pushed her to, and she will never ever admit to any wrongdoing to them.

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-08-19/lucy-letby-police-urged-to-probe-hospital-bosses-for-corporate-manslaughter#:~:text=Hospital%20executives%20who,the%20newspaper%20reported.

 

[Dcflag]

I might be crazy, I only watched the video once. But regarding the knee surgery, wasn’t it the officer?

As Lucy gets into the back seat the officer apologises and says she will move the front seat forward. And paraphrases that she had recently had knee surgery, presumably as an explanation as to why the seat was so far back Lucy couldn’t get her legs in behind the seat.

 

[katydid23]

On the Panorama video, they interview a criminologist who says he has worked with a lot of serial killers, who says things like "I killed them on purpose" and "I did it" on that note - are the kind of things people write when they are expressing stress at what people are saying about them. Looking at the whole note not just those phrases. He suggests it could mean "They are alleging" I killed them on purpose. Or "they are alleging" I did it. Because when someone is panicking and stressed they are expressing their thoughts and fears.

I found that interesting. He said you shouldn't take it literally. Standing alone those statements look like an admission of guilt. And the prosecution said the jury should take them literally.

It might explain why there are contradictory statements on the note. Like "I did nothing wrong".

If I had a business, and figured out that one of my employees was stealing money from the register, I'd want to investigate.

If I then found a note in one of my most trusted employees desk, which said by her own hand. ---" I took the money on purpose, I AM GREEDY"---------I'd believe the note. Why would I jump to the excuse that she actually meant other people were thinking that about her instead?

If so, she'd have written " They think I am a thief and stole the money."

I think that confession note was very important. LL 's demeanor was so flat and she was so locked down, closed down and quiet. She couldn't repress all of that forever. It makes sense that she would leak that repressed info at some point. JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

I do see what you’re getting at, but there’s zero evidence that this is the case here, zero evidence that she is autistic or neurodiverse. And she certainly isn’t afraid to stand up for herself as far as I can tell.

Her dad sold radiators, her mum was an accounts clerk, so they weren’t in the medical field so that doesn’t apply either.

IMO she fought because she wanted to see what they knew. And also because her parents pushed her to, and she will never ever admit to any wrongdoing to them.

I think if she had any kind of autism or similar diagnosis she would have made sure everybody knew about it and tried to use it to her advantage in any way she could.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I just don’t think it should be her choice. If the families want to look her in the eye when their impact statements are read out, they should be able to. I think it’s cowardly and disrespectful, and she shouldn’t be allowed this last bit of control. But hey. At least she’ll be locked up for life. That’s the main thing I guess. JMO.

I agree.

This country has been in existence, essentially, for well over 1,000 years. I find it very difficult to accept that a court has no legal authority, however old, to compel, by force if necessary, a convicted murderer to appear before it.

The very idea is ridiculous, quite honestly.

 

[Dotta]

All I’ve heard is he’s bald and not particularly attractive . Not sure if that’s true and this may get deleted

Maybe LL wasn't interested in wrapping
But
In what might be inside

 

[Sarahlou]

I might be crazy, I only watched the video once. But regarding the knee surgery, wasn’t it the officer?

As Lucy gets into the back seat the officer apologises and says she will move the front seat forward. And paraphrases that she had recently had knee surgery, presumably as an explanation as to why the seat was so far back Lucy couldn’t get her legs in behind the seat.

No it was Lucy who said she'd had knee surgery.

 

[Marantz4250b]

With any kind of workplace grievance you're normally allowed to take either a colleague or union rep in with you. I've never heard of anybody taking their parents in with them.

If she has any sort of medical/neurological condition I think that they'd be required to allow anyone to accompany her.

She was allowed multiple "comfort" items in the dock with her, after all.

 

[CS2C]

Maybe LL wasn't interested in wrapping
But
In what might be inside

His hair is like friar tuck, so not completely bald

 

[dotr]

 

[JosieJo]

I know many young women who are more than happy to date, and are attracted to, balding middle-aged men.

He may well have a string of much younger women in his history - in fact, I'd put money on it!

I doubt that very much JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

I've wondered if she might have been OK had she chosen a different career. Maybe her friends are right and she was a normal, caring person before. Who knows.

Genuinely, I get the impression that she is a "normal caring person" in every respect, other than having a proclivity to murder patients in her care.

I can't explain any of why I think that.

She is different to anyone else I have ever encountered or read about.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Susan Ogilvy (?) was interviewed on a radio 4 news programme this week.
Hope I have the name correct - it's the woman who took over from Chambers and then started litigation for constructive dismissal.

Anyway, she said that there was a very real divide at Countess between nurses and doctors and that she felt it was one part of the reason that Chambers - and others - backed Letby.

Well, as I've made no secret of before - TC backed LL so vociferously for other reasons. IMOO, obvs!