GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[Dotta]

Lucy Letby

"YOU WILL SPEND THE REST OF YOUR LIFE IN PRISON"

Amen

 

[Sundial]

I saw this yesterday if this is any use? Somebody who has followed the trial on WS since the outset will probably have more details

re her sixth form years:

'Described as straight-laced, Letby attended the evangelical Hope City Church and had a close circle of 'churchy' friends – five girls who self-styled themselves the 'Miss-Matches' while studying for their A-levels at Hereford Sixth Form College'

Lucy Letby: Church-goer dubbed 'The Innocent One' by friends

With toys in her bedroom, doting parents and the nickname from friends 'The Innocent One', no one could have thought Lucy Letby was Britain's worst ever serial killer.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Elim Pentecostal Hereford City Church

Interesting that they were labelled the mis-matches and the sixth form stuff; it was mentioned previously by another poster- her possible inability in being unable to know how to read people/situations properly.. is it now possible to believe that she joined nursing predominantly because that small circle of friends took an interest in the same profession in those event days when she was still at sixth form. It strikes me as wanting to join a course or do something your peers are doing- I could just imagine that; the small group of them stood round the events table, banners and information being handed out, a friend takes an interest- as does she. *That* kind of friend following the herd, very odd awkward persona struggling to fit anywhere. The perfect cover, the “trust me I’m a nurse”, her mothers gloating outside the courts who said she was “the mother of the nurse”. I find this so disturbing that even her parents have shown no compassion for these families either. The princess on the pedestal.

 

[Jw192]

<ADMIN NOTE: Name calling is not allowed.>

The top professionals in the field will be debating this creepbag for the rest of history.

Who knows why she did what she did and part of me doubts that we will ever know. I have my own off the cuff opinions on her, of course off the cuff as there are no psych reports etc... to go over, but from what we are made privy too, a huge part of me believes that the actual killings/attacks, the babies, they meant FA to her in the grand scale. She got off on the aftermaths. I believe that the parents were her targets (maybe a hatred for her own?), she studied them pre and post attack, played god deciding which ones were worthy of being parents and which weren't.
Toying with all the people around her like a cat and an asolute grief thief.

I believe that her upbringing had a huge hand in it too. Her parents wrapped that lass in cotton wool and in my opinion gave her such a god complex. Little perfect Lucy, little clever Lucy, Lucy can't do no wrong. I hate it looking like I'm placing some blame elsewhere as it was her and her alone who did this, but their actions show to me that she believed in their hype. They treat her like a child, even in adulthood, the whole dad contacting the hospital, rearranging the teddies in her room, her mam shouting I did it, take me... they mollycoddled her, and as a result of her upbringing, she developed the tools she needed in order to manipulate those around her into believing that she was an angel.
In her note that people have analysed and picked apart, there was always the one part that stood out to me, a part that many of the innocence brigade clung onto as a tool in their arguments, but to me it was the most telling... "I haven't done anything wrong" I truly believe that she believed that, when she wrote it and even now. She will have gone her whole life being told by her parents that she can do no wrong and even after attacking babies she believes that her, sweet Lucy still hasn't done anything wrong and can never do anything wrong.

Her life, despite her having a bit of a social life, was boring af, "beige" is the best way to describe her. Old fashioned and beige and she thrived off the attention and excitement that the attacks gave her. I agree with Shadow so much in that she buzzed off the grief and postmortem aspects. I don't buy that Dr Choc was in anyway a reason for her crimes, he was simply another toy for sneaky feline Letby to play with and manipulate.

Anyways I'm m proper babbling and not making as much sense as I intent to as I'm typing this in a toilet cubicle when I'm not meant to be here ha, but yah pure god complex and she will never ever ever admit to doing anything wrong, because again she doesn't believe she is capable of wrong.

 

[dotr]

Nothing other than her own physical pain will hurt LL, except maybe one thing..
if she is sent a romantic photo of her presumed fancy man with his wife, followed by happy pics of them with their children.
Truly hoping that all the parents of these little babies find some measure of peace and in time have happy new experiences, and when they do, let the she-devil know about it.
speculation, imo, fwiw.

 

[Eloise]

And NOW I can say what I think.

I think she is one of the coldest, cruelest, most diabolical serial offenders I have read about. And I have read about plenty.

I think she LOVED what she did. Loved the chaos she caused. Loved the grief of the families and her coworkers. Loved the fuss the management made over her when she fought against being benched.

I think she feels nothing but contempt for those around her. She plays at being so normal it's abnormal. She manipulated people with ease. She plays at being nice so people feel guilty when they don't like her or suspect her of harm. Her beige is her camouflage. Her nice is her camouflage. It's all superficial, all fake.

I think she looked for victims in the families who had fought the hardest to have kids. Those with kids who had existing conditions, those who were multiples, because she figured less questions would be asked if they died, but also, it would hurt those families more if the babies were fighting against more to live, and she would get to see hope and joy snatched away from them as she watched. But equally, she would attack a child if she had a negative interaction with a parent, or their assigned nurse, or her supervisor. Just to vent her spite and feel powerful.

Nothing makes her happier than seeing others in pain. I disagree with the judge that she was 'bordering on sadism'. Everything she did was about the pleasure she got from causing pain.

She doesn't know how to do people. She has no known past relationships except possibly an affair with a married man. She has friends who defend her, but the messenger conversations with her colleagues show someone more inclined to manipulate her close companions than form bonds of real intimacy.

And I've talked a bit about her postmortem fixation with the families and the bodies of the children.

And no, I don't think she actually has PTSD or needs sensory items, but I think she's smart enough to fake it and knows the optics of her as a sad, broken, harmless person were her best shot in court, because she sure as heck didn't have any strong proof she didn't do it, or a phalanx of experts talking about how it couldn't be her. She had her own testimony, and a plumber.

*deep breath out*

I've been sitting on all that since I joined Websleuths.

MOO

This makes me think of that doctor who said something like, "It can’t be Lucy. Not nice Lucy," when confronted with the evidence. Nice. Nice is what she pretended to be. What she could never pretend to be was kind. She doesn't have a kind bone in her body. Not a single one of her cells is kind. She played at being 'nice' - quiet, friendly, competent, soft-spoken. She could fool people with this act. But you can't pretend to be kind, IMO.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I’m sad for the parents with not guilty or no verdicts. It’s clear their children were cared for by a murderer, and there are still unexplained incidents regarding their care that they can’t legally attribute to Lucy, despite it (in my opinion) being the only obvious explanation.

I’m also sad for the many parents to come who are going to get that call through the investigations to come.

Some of the impact statements were hard, hearing the mother who struggled with the hand and footprints of her baby having been taken by Lucy, or the parents who buried their children in outfits Lucy dressed them in, must be incredibly hard to live with.

Im glad she’s now on several WLO as it should be.

I agree. JMO

 

[Officer Dibble]

<ADMIN NOTE: Name calling is not allowed.>

The top professionals in the field will be debating this creepbag for the rest of history.

Who knows why she did what she did and part of me doubts that we will ever know. I have my own off the cuff opinions on her, of course off the cuff as there are no psych reports etc... to go over, but from what we are made privy too, a huge part of me believes that the actual killings/attacks, the babies, they meant FA to her in the grand scale. She got off on the aftermaths. I believe that the parents were her targets (maybe a hatred for her own?), she studied them pre and post attack, played god deciding which ones were worthy of being parents and which weren't.
Toying with all the people around her like a cat and an asolute grief thief.

I believe that her upbringing had a huge hand in it too. Her parents wrapped that lass in cotton wool and in my opinion gave her such a god complex. Little perfect Lucy, little clever Lucy, Lucy can't do no wrong. I hate it looking like I'm placing some blame elsewhere as it was her and her alone who did this, but their actions show to me that she believed in their hype. They treat her like a child, even in adulthood, the whole dad contacting the hospital, rearranging the teddies in her room, her mam shouting I did it, take me... they mollycoddled her, and as a result of her upbringing, she developed the tools she needed in order to manipulate those around her into believing that she was an angel.
In her note that people have analysed and picked apart, there was always the one part that stood out to me, a part that many of the innocence brigade clung onto as a tool in their arguments, but to me it was the most telling... "I haven't done anything wrong" I truly believe that she believed that, when she wrote it and even now. She will have gone her whole life being told by her parents that she can do no wrong and even after attacking babies she believes that her, sweet Lucy still hasn't done anything wrong and can never do anything wrong.

Her life, despite her having a bit of a social life, was boring af, "beige" is the best way to describe her. Old fashioned and beige and she thrived off the attention and excitement that the attacks gave her. I agree with Shadow so much in that she buzzed off the grief and postmortem aspects. I don't buy that Dr Choc was in anyway a reason for her crimes, he was simply another toy for sneaky feline Letby to play with and manipulate.

Anyways I'm m proper babbling and not making as much sense as I intent to as I'm typing this in a toilet cubicle when I'm not meant to be here ha, but yah pure god complex and she will never ever ever admit to doing anything wrong, because again she doesn't believe she is capable of wrong.

BBM: You have written everything I have personally thought. I agree with you, as my opinion. JMO MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

Well done to the Judge. I cried listening to them. I cried for all the victims and their families. JMO

 

[Officer Dibble]

And NOW I can say what I think.

I think she is one of the coldest, cruelest, most diabolical serial offenders I have read about. And I have read about plenty.

I think she LOVED what she did. Loved the chaos she caused. Loved the grief of the families and her coworkers. Loved the fuss the management made over her when she fought against being benched.

I think she feels nothing but contempt for those around her. She plays at being so normal it's abnormal. She manipulated people with ease. She plays at being nice so people feel guilty when they don't like her or suspect her of harm. Her beige is her camouflage. Her nice is her camouflage. It's all superficial, all fake.

I think she looked for victims in the families who had fought the hardest to have kids. Those with kids who had existing conditions, those who were multiples, because she figured less questions would be asked if they died, but also, it would hurt those families more if the babies were fighting against more to live, and she would get to see hope and joy snatched away from them as she watched. But equally, she would attack a child if she had a negative interaction with a parent, or their assigned nurse, or her supervisor. Just to vent her spite and feel powerful.

Nothing makes her happier than seeing others in pain. I disagree with the judge that she was 'bordering on sadism'. Everything she did was about the pleasure she got from causing pain.

She doesn't know how to do people. She has no known past relationships except possibly an affair with a married man. She has friends who defend her, but the messenger conversations with her colleagues show someone more inclined to manipulate her close companions than form bonds of real intimacy.

And I've talked a bit about her postmortem fixation with the families and the bodies of the children.

And no, I don't think she actually has PTSD or needs sensory items, but I think she's smart enough to fake it and knows the optics of her as a sad, broken, harmless person were her best shot in court, because she sure as heck didn't have any strong proof she didn't do it, or a phalanx of experts talking about how it couldn't be her. She had her own testimony, and a plumber.

*deep breath out*

I've been sitting on all that since I joined Websleuths.

MOO

Nods along. JMO

 

[May72031]

Anybody else remember the moment they first heard about this case?

I just happened to have a news channel on (either BBC News or Sky News) in the background, and I stopped what I was doing when I heard a nurse had been arrested and was being questioned with regard to (then 8) alleged murders. I was stunned, and I was struggling to comprehend how it was possible. There was so little information for two years, and then the charges came, and then the trial, where slowly but surely, we discover the truly sinister events that occurred.

 

[JTS101]

<ADMIN NOTE: Name calling is not allowed.>

The top professionals in the field will be debating this creepbag for the rest of history.

Who knows why she did what she did and part of me doubts that we will ever know. I have my own off the cuff opinions on her, of course off the cuff as there are no psych reports etc... to go over, but from what we are made privy too, a huge part of me believes that the actual killings/attacks, the babies, they meant FA to her in the grand scale. She got off on the aftermaths. I believe that the parents were her targets (maybe a hatred for her own?), she studied them pre and post attack, played god deciding which ones were worthy of being parents and which weren't.
Toying with all the people around her like a cat and an asolute grief thief.

I believe that her upbringing had a huge hand in it too. Her parents wrapped that lass in cotton wool and in my opinion gave her such a god complex. Little perfect Lucy, little clever Lucy, Lucy can't do no wrong. I hate it looking like I'm placing some blame elsewhere as it was her and her alone who did this, but their actions show to me that she believed in their hype. They treat her like a child, even in adulthood, the whole dad contacting the hospital, rearranging the teddies in her room, her mam shouting I did it, take me... they mollycoddled her, and as a result of her upbringing, she developed the tools she needed in order to manipulate those around her into believing that she was an angel.
In her note that people have analysed and picked apart, there was always the one part that stood out to me, a part that many of the innocence brigade clung onto as a tool in their arguments, but to me it was the most telling... "I haven't done anything wrong" I truly believe that she believed that, when she wrote it and even now. She will have gone her whole life being told by her parents that she can do no wrong and even after attacking babies she believes that her, sweet Lucy still hasn't done anything wrong and can never do anything wrong.

Her life, despite her having a bit of a social life, was boring af, "beige" is the best way to describe her. Old fashioned and beige and she thrived off the attention and excitement that the attacks gave her. I agree with Shadow so much in that she buzzed off the grief and postmortem aspects. I don't buy that Dr Choc was in anyway a reason for her crimes, he was simply another toy for sneaky feline Letby to play with and manipulate.

Anyways I'm m proper babbling and not making as much sense as I intent to as I'm typing this in a toilet cubicle when I'm not meant to be here ha, but yah pure god complex and she will never ever ever admit to doing anything wrong, because again she doesn't believe she is capable of wrong.

This makes a lot of sense to me. It would be interesting to hear more of the police interview tapes as I suspect that might lend weight to your point of view. I also have to add that this entire case is heartbreaking with the families especially in mind. I think the sentence was wholly appropriate.

 

[Cuko]

This case is without doubt the most horrific and appalling I’ve ever heard of. Apart from Letby’s obvious wickedness and malevolence, there is one aspect that really baffles me: How can it be that she apparently exhibited no strange or concerning behaviours during her childhood or young adulthood? From the little reading I’ve done, it appears that almost every serial killer has had some early life history of inflicting (and/or receiving) abuse or cruelty. There’s been not a single example of those behaviours in anything that’s been said or written about LL. Any thoughts?
JMO

 

[Sarahlou]

This case is without doubt the most horrific and appalling I’ve ever heard of. Apart from Letby’s obvious wickedness and malevolence, there is one aspect that really baffles me: How can it be that she apparently exhibited no strange or concerning behaviours during her childhood or young adulthood? From the little reading I’ve done, it appears that almost every serial killer has had some early life history of inflicting (and/or receiving) abuse or cruelty. There’s been not a single example of those behaviours in anything that’s been said or written about LL. Any thoughts?
JMO

Not that we've heard of. There may well have been things her parents picked up on but it's not like they would tell anyone as they seem firmly in denial.

 

[sriraaacha]

She had to get a whole life sentence really, there would have been no other way around it considering the things she did. It's scary how the 'overly nice' people are often the ones you have to watch out for because they're hiding their real true selves and covering it with their 'niceness'. Not that I know her of course, but basing it off of what others have said about her it seems she was that way.

I'd be really interested in knowing exactly why she did murder all of those babies and to hear a little about her thoughts and the way her mind worked and everything that led up to it and beyond, but I doubt she'll ever open up about it with deep honesty so not too hopeful we'll ever find out. Some of those quotes about the kids are really tough to read and imagine how somebody could do those things to another human being.

Not really a fan of the blame I'm seeing be placed on the parents though. Is there a possiblity her childhood played a part in any of this? Maybe or maybe not, but regardless of that, plenty of people go through various things throughout their younger years and don't end up being serial killers.

Anyway, the outcome was the only one that would have sufficed really with all that the victims' families have had to go through.

 

[Officer Dibble]

"Professor David Wilson, a leading criminologist, told the Mail that this desperation to be acknowledged at work were signs of a 'hero complex,' and narcissism in Letby's personality."

Judge tells Lucy Letby she has 'deprived children of their siblings'

Mr Justice Goss told Manchester Crown Court the killer nurse she had 'robbed parents of their cherished children' and 'deprived siblings of their brothers and sisters'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[iamshadow21]

This case is without doubt the most horrific and appalling I’ve ever heard of. Apart from Letby’s obvious wickedness and malevolence, there is one aspect that really baffles me: How can it be that she apparently exhibited no strange or concerning behaviours during her childhood or young adulthood? From the little reading I’ve done, it appears that almost every serial killer has had some early life history of inflicting (and/or receiving) abuse or cruelty. There’s been not a single example of those behaviours in anything that’s been said or written about LL. Any thoughts?
JMO

I think she masks well and her parents saw things in her in her early life they have done their best to conceal, possibly even from themselves.

The way they dance attendance on her is really strange, to me. I think the first people she learnt to manipulate were her parents. There's nothing unusual in that - babies do it before they can talk. But most overcome their developmentally appropriate narcissism as they grow and develop. I think she never let go of that first taste of control.

MOO

 

[BuzzC]

I really feel for the family of the child Letby was accused of murdering but the case was dropped before the trial.

From what I can make out, she wasn’t convicted of the attempted murder(s) of that child either.

 

[iamshadow21]

I really feel for the family of the child Letby was accused of murdering but the case was dropped before the trial.

From what I can make out, she wasn’t convicted of the attempted murder(s) of that child either.

I believe there was no verdict returned on a charge for that child, so if the prosecution choose to retry on the no verdict charges, they may get resolution in the future that they were denied today.

MOO

 

[JTS101]

This case is without doubt the most horrific and appalling I’ve ever heard of. Apart from Letby’s obvious wickedness and malevolence, there is one aspect that really baffles me: How can it be that she apparently exhibited no strange or concerning behaviours during her childhood or young adulthood? From the little reading I’ve done, it appears that almost every serial killer has had some early life history of inflicting (and/or receiving) abuse or cruelty. There’s been not a single example of those behaviours in anything that’s been said or written about LL. Any thoughts?
JMO

I think, partly that may be because we have heard very little about her early life.

 

[Cuko]

Not that we've heard of. There may well have been things her parents picked up on but it's not like they would tell anyone as they seem firmly in denial.

I agree re parents in denial. Even so, the media have been digging constantly among LL’s childhood friends, colleagues, church associates, etc, and not one single small example has emerged. It’s strange.