GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[esther43]

I do wonder if the thrill wasn't in the kill but in the heroic acts of saving very close to death collapses? And the deaths were an unintended product of her thrill seeking?

But this would not explain why she poisoned the babies before going off shift or why she attacked child N before going on holiday.
I think attention was only a part of the story, it has to be a mix between 'being believed' and 'being needed'.
One Dr said 'it was good at first, she was reliable in a crisis'
I think the truth is she was aware of the balance required to pull off a believable story.
It is still imo remarkable that she manipulated colleagues that worked there a long time, saying things like '34 weekers' 'a difficult gestation'
It was really odd to say that.
We now know that obviously a few people were thinking similarly.

 

[Officer Dibble]

that seems to be pretty much why it was narrowed down to her. She was the ONLY ONE who was on duty for every single death and/or collapse. The only one.

And even with that, her colleagues , at first, had a very hard time believing it was her. She was very cunning and put on a very believable act.

The senior doctors KNEW that something was wrong. They knew these collapses were not a natural medical occurrence and they knew it was very odd that the babies were unexpectedly collapsing not responding to resuscitation. And there was such a spike in deaths. >>>13 deaths in a year, when the normal average was 1 to 3.

First thoughts were maybe hidden virus that was wreaking havoc. Or something wrong in the environment somehow---toxic substances, etc. They found no evidence of such things. After an initial investigation found nothing to explain it medically or environmentally they had to look at malicious actions as a possibility.

And yet, very early on, after the first 3 collapses, 2 of the senior consultants did take note of Lucy Letby as possibly being the common denominator. With the first 3 cases, A, B and C, she did not do the types of subterfuge she began doing in later cases. She was a bit more obvious. So a couple of the doctors had concerns about her early on.

But in later cases she learned to change things up , and also targeted babies that her colleagues were in charge of, and she began writing false info in the observation logs, and sending texts with false info, to try and cover her tracks better.

So when these same suspicious doctors tried to sound the alarms against her, the management rejected the idea and said she was being scapegoated. Nurse Letby did a great job keeping her mask of innocence and sweetness on, and so she had a lot of supporters and defenders. She played the martyr very well.

something I haven't seen mentioned in here recently, was the nurse or manager (?) saying to LL to get out of someone else's ward but she went back again and had to be told to get out again? Sorry that is muddled up so if someone can remind me I'd be grateful. MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

But this would not explain why she poisoned the babies before going off shift or why she attacked child N before going on holiday.
I think attention was only a part of the story, it has to be a mix between 'being believed' and 'being needed'.
One Dr said 'it was good at first, she was reliable in a crisis'
I think the truth is she was aware of the balance required to pull off a believable story.
It is still imo remarkable that she manipulated colleagues that worked there a long time, saying things like '34 weekers' 'a difficult gestation'
It was really odd to say that.
We now know that obviously a few people were thinking similarly.

BBM: To me that looks like 2 attempts to deflect in a 'well I wasn't on duty at the time' kind of way. MOO JMO

 

[Dotta]

What a fall!

From a Poster Charity Perfect Nurse to a convicted criminal with not even a single mitigating factor her Defence could offer.

You couldn't really make it up.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

I do wonder if the thrill wasn't in the kill but in the heroic acts of saving very close to death collapses? And the deaths were an unintended product of her thrill seeking?

The problem with that as a blanket explanation is the handful of times she was found watching as a child collapsed and doing nothing, including the time she sharply reprimanded a junior colleague for calling for help when a baby was collapsing. Surely if she was wanting to be the 'rescuer', she would be the one going, 'get help! this baby's in trouble!' Instead, in those circumstances, she only seems to move into action because she has been observed and needs to make it seem like she was intervening, rather than watching them die without helping. That latter event, she really seemed waspish and angry her colleague had called for help, which struck the colleague very strongly because it was the opposite of what she would expect. I think in that moment Letby was very angry at being denied her kill. The mask of 'nice Lucy' slipped, just enough for Lisa Walker to see what was underneath for a moment, and it was anything but 'nice'.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

something I haven't seen mentioned in here recently, was the nurse or manager (?) saying to LL to get out of someone else's ward but she went back again and had to be told to get out again? Sorry that is muddled up so if someone can remind me I'd be grateful. MOO

She kept going in the 'family room' while the parents were spending their last hours with their dying, then dead child. She was not the child's designated nurse, she was actually assigned the 'sickest' baby on the ward whom she was neglecting, and went back in the family room multiple times despite being told to keep out by her supervisor.

This was child C, the baby who had intermittent vital signs for five hours after CPR was ceased. I think she kept going back in there because she wanted to see the moment of death. The family room is designed to be private, and being on the outside was denying her the emotional feedback and gloating over her kill she wanted.

MOO

Lucy Letby: 'Baby killed by nurse showed signs of life for FIVE HOURS'

A baby allegedly murdered by nurse Lucy Letby showed intermittent signs of life for five hours after a medical crash team called off their desperate attempts to resuscitate him, a court heard today.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[katydid23]

OOh when had she falsified observation info etc? I’d missed that.

I'd have to comb back through to remember which exact cases---but the prosecutor spelled it all out in his closings and he even asked her about each one during cross examination.

Essentially, she tried to put some false data in some observation logs, to make it look like a baby was deteriorating earlier than they did---so it wouldn't seem so obvious that she had just injected them with air

And also she would change some of the times she did treatments in other rooms, to make it look like she couldn't have been the one that gave the air injection to the victim.

And she occasionally made false references to her telling a doctor about a child in need of help, when in fact, she told no one.

She did some of that with Baby E---writing the false time referring to when she saw blood on the baby's mouth----when in fact it was much earlier, and baby's mother also saw it herself.

Lucy made a very bad error by trying to discount that mom's story. And then writing false observation reports. I think that was one of the most obvious lies she was caught out in. And once you see that she lied about something as serious as that, she loses credibility in all of the other cases, imo.

 

[QB2022]

The problem with that as a blanket explanation is the handful of times she was found watching as a child collapsed and doing nothing, including the time she sharply reprimanded a junior colleague for calling for help when a baby was collapsing. Surely if she was wanting to be the 'rescuer', she would be the one going, 'get help! this baby's in trouble!' Instead, in those circumstances, she only seems to move into action because she has been observed and needs to make it seem like she was intervening, rather than watching them die without helping. That latter event, she really seemed waspish and angry her colleague had called for help, which struck the colleague very strongly because it was the opposite of what she would expect. I think in that moment Letby was very angry at being denied her kill. The mask of 'nice Lucy' slipped, just enough for Lisa Walker to see what was underneath for a moment, and it was anything but 'nice'.

MOO

This is a very valid point.

Its all so odd and makes no sense.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'd have to comb back through to remember which exact cases---but the prosecutor spelled it all out in his closings and he even asked her about each one during cross examination.

Essentially, she tried to put some false data in some observation logs, to make it look like a baby was deteriorating earlier than they did---so it wouldn't seem so obvious that she had just injected them with air

And also she would change some of the times she did treatments in other rooms, to make it look like she couldn't have been the one that gave the air injection to the victim.

And she occasionally made false references to her telling a doctor about a child in need of help, when in fact, she told no one.

She did some of that with Baby E---writing the false time referring to when she saw blood on the baby's mouth----when in fact it was much earlier, and baby's mother also saw it herself.

Lucy made a very bad error by trying to discount that mom's story. And then writing false observation reports. I think that was one of the most obvious lies she was caught out in. And once you see that she lied about something as serious as that, she loses credibility in all of the other cases, imo.

The other big lie that caught her out was probably the most frivolous one. Claiming she didn't know what going commando meant, when she replied to it with crylaughing emojis. If she would lie so obviously and so stubbornly about something so trivial, then it wasn't a leap that she would lie about other things. Then she lied about what she was wearing when she was arrested, only backing down when the prosecutor told her they could play video of her arrest for the jury. She established herself as someone who would lie and stick to the lie even though it was ridiculous, and only submit when they had photographic proof. I don't think that reassured anyone of her ability to tell the truth when it mattered.

MOO

 

[Lola68]

I could imagine it starting in such a way but I think she became hooked (imo). Air embolisms are swift and devastating. There are less risky ways to destabilise an infant I think - and imo she wasn’t a stupid individual. I do wonder what they’ll find historically

She did try more than once - 4 times for one poor baby - so I think it's pretty clear what her ultimate goal was

 

[iamshadow21]

This is a very valid point.

Its all so odd and makes no sense.

It does if you like watching babies suffer and die.

She didn't want to be a hero. She liked having her ego patted and stroked, but she could have got that just being an above and beyond neonatal nurse - nice Lucy, competent Lucy, for REAL. The one who helped you through a difficult postnatal period, the one who you wanted by your side when a child took a turn for the worse, the safest pair of hands when a child turned critical.

She liked killing babies and watching families go through the trauma of infant loss better than any of that.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

She did try more than once - 4 times for one poor baby - so I think it's pretty clear what her ultimate goal was

She is a sadist not right in the head.

Revelling in horrendous cries of dying Babies, thrusting sharp objects into their throats and puncturing their livers.
Babies she called "rubbish".

These are facts.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Will the full transcript of her questioning on the stand by the prosecution be available? Anyone know?

here is a link to some of the cross examination. The rest of it is there too:

UK - Lucy Letby Trial - Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

Defence Case Friday 9th June 2023 - LUCY LETBY'S CROSS-EXAMINATION Sky News Updates - https://news.sky.com/story/lucy-letby-murder-trial-latest-former-nurse-tells-court-why-she-repeatedly-searched-for-dead-babys-mother-on-facebook-12868375 11:00 The jury has filed in Court has resumed for this...

www.websleuths.com

 

[ColourPurple]

I do wonder if the thrill wasn't in the kill but in the heroic acts of saving very close to death collapses? And the deaths were an unintended product of her thrill seeking?

No, she enjoyed the aftermath of their deaths, witnessing the parents grief, making the memory boxes, sending the sympathy card. She wouldn't get to do any of that if they survived! And even then it wasn't just about the deaths as she could have chosen less painful ways to kill the babies but she didn't, so she obviously enjoyed inflicting pain on them too.

 

[Furore]

The victims of Lucy Letby – and full statements from their parents

The infant victims of Lucy Letby's horrific crimes all have names - but they've been kept private during the lengthy trial against the former nurse, now the UK's most prolific child serial killer of modern times. They are all sons, daughters, siblings and grandchildren.

news.sky.com

These are really really painful wow how could anyone want to do this to families

 

[ColourPurple]

something I haven't seen mentioned in here recently, was the nurse or manager (?) saying to LL to get out of someone else's ward but she went back again and had to be told to get out again? Sorry that is muddled up so if someone can remind me I'd be grateful. MOO

Baby C. LL was not the designated nurse and Mel Taylor was in charge of looking after the parents in the family room, as Baby C was passing away. But LL kept going back into the family room and had to be told more than once by the shift leader to leave the parents alone and go back to look after her designated baby. LL texted later that she had "persuaded" the parents to have hand and footprints taken. The parents said at one point LL walked in with a ventilated basket and said to them "You've said your goodbyes now , do you want to put him in here?". The mother replied "He's not dead yet!"

 

[Furore]

I'd have to comb back through to remember which exact cases---but the prosecutor spelled it all out in his closings and he even asked her about each one during cross examination.

Essentially, she tried to put some false data in some observation logs, to make it look like a baby was deteriorating earlier than they did---so it wouldn't seem so obvious that she had just injected them with air

And also she would change some of the times she did treatments in other rooms, to make it look like she couldn't have been the one that gave the air injection to the victim.

And she occasionally made false references to her telling a doctor about a child in need of help, when in fact, she told no one.

She did some of that with Baby E---writing the false time referring to when she saw blood on the baby's mouth----when in fact it was much earlier, and baby's mother also saw it herself.

Lucy made a very bad error by trying to discount that mom's story. And then writing false observation reports. I think that was one of the most obvious lies she was caught out in. And once you see that she lied about something as serious as that, she loses credibility in all of the other cases, imo.

Thank you. She is heinous.

 

[ColourPurple]

Does anyone have thoughts on why she targeted twins and triplets? Was it because she perceived them as more medically vulnerable or just more interesting? It’s hellish it really is.

I said this a while back but I still feel the same only now I don't have to add an "if guilty" disclaimer:

I think LL just chose babies whose deaths she thought would have the biggest most dramatic impact, as if she were writing her own script for a hospital docu-soap - a baby the parents had waited years for, a baby whose 100 day birthday it was, a baby whose due date it was, sets of twins and triplets where it would be even more tragic if the parents lost both or all three of their babies.

 

[esther43]

The problem with that as a blanket explanation is the handful of times she was found watching as a child collapsed and doing nothing, including the time she sharply reprimanded a junior colleague for calling for help when a baby was collapsing. Surely if she was wanting to be the 'rescuer', she would be the one going, 'get help! this baby's in trouble!' Instead, in those circumstances, she only seems to move into action because she has been observed and needs to make it seem like she was intervening, rather than watching them die without helping. That latter event, she really seemed waspish and angry her colleague had called for help, which struck the colleague very strongly because it was the opposite of what she would expect. I think in that moment Letby was very angry at being denied her kill. The mask of 'nice Lucy' slipped, just enough for Lisa Walker to see what was underneath for a moment, and it was anything but 'nice'.

MOO

I admire Lisa Walker greatly for speaking out. 20 years experience in the setting too. Literally knocked spots off LL's experience, what a joke that LL thought she could outwit a nursery nurse who might be of lower ranking but had 15 years on her and clearly smarter than LL too!

 

[iamshadow21]

I'd have to comb back through to remember which exact cases---but the prosecutor spelled it all out in his closings and he even asked her about each one during cross examination.

Essentially, she tried to put some false data in some observation logs, to make it look like a baby was deteriorating earlier than they did---so it wouldn't seem so obvious that she had just injected them with air

And also she would change some of the times she did treatments in other rooms, to make it look like she couldn't have been the one that gave the air injection to the victim.

And she occasionally made false references to her telling a doctor about a child in need of help, when in fact, she told no one.

She did some of that with Baby E---writing the false time referring to when she saw blood on the baby's mouth----when in fact it was much earlier, and baby's mother also saw it herself.

Lucy made a very bad error by trying to discount that mom's story. And then writing false observation reports. I think that was one of the most obvious lies she was caught out in. And once you see that she lied about something as serious as that, she loses credibility in all of the other cases, imo.

If I recall correctly, she also falsified a blood sugar reading in one of the poisoning cases, to make it seem that his level was higher than it was, then discouraged another nurse from taking a reading at the short interval they had been, because it was a better number and because of 'his poor feet'. So the baby went without a sugar level reading for longer, leaving a greater interval for complications and death.

MOO