GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

[ColourPurple]

I've now read quite a few of their testimonies given from behind their screens because I wanted to see if her main friends on the NNU gave any hint of their current stance. ( the ones who appear in texts, blowing smoke about how 'fab' she was and how there was ' a witchhunt' etc

I did find one who said she'd had sleepless nights for a long time thereafter and had been racking her brains to try and recall details. Maybe I missed some but am still at one.

There's this one (Janet Cox is apparently the friend who attended court)

The nurses suffering from PTSD after befriending Lucy Letby.

Many of the neonatal nurse's former colleagues are still struggling to accept the full extent of her crimes.

Lucy Letby’s colleagues have been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder after working with and befriending Britain’s worst baby killer.

The small neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester, where the murders took place, consisted of just 13 cots and was staffed by a close-knit group of 40 nurses.

It was described as a “quiet, sterile place” covered with wires and tubing and filled with the usually monotonous beeping of incubators and monitors.

The room where the most vulnerable babies were cared for and where the majority of the attacks occurred did not have a single window.
The environment was intense and the relationships staff members developed were equally so, with nurses on the unit forming long-lasting relationships.

“We are a very close group. It has helped”, one nursing assistant who worked alongside Letby and still works at the hospital told the Telegraph.
Other staff members described the nurses on the unit as being like a “family”.

At 6am on July 3, 2018, the monotonous beeping and the sterile quiet of the unit were shattered by the unimaginable; the arrest of nurse Letby in a dawn raid at her newly bought home for the most incomprehensible of crimes.

Five years later, many of Letby’s former colleagues are still struggling to come to terms with the impact of that moment.

In the weeks before Letby was convicted of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of a further six, the Telegraph reached out to her former colleagues.

None of the nurses the Telegraph approached were willing to discuss, in detail, their association with Letby during her time at the hospital.

When asked why the group continued to remain silent, one senior nurse replied: “It’s too traumatising. We just can’t talk about it.”

Another added: “I know there are people who still want answers. But we still don’t know how this is going to end.”

It is understood that at least three colleagues of Letby have been diagnosed with PTSD, and a number of others suffer from severe depression and anxiety.

Some have left the country, others have left nursing, but the majority remain living and working in the area.

Amongst the neonatal unit staff, there were differing opinions, pre-verdict, as to the full extent of Letby’s offending.

One colleague, Janet Cox, has remained supportive of Letby throughout and is believed to have attended the trial on a number of occasions alongside the murderer’s parents.

“She’s her best friend,” a man at Ms Cox’s home said when asked about the pair’s relationship.

The nurses suffering from PTSD after befriending Lucy Letby

Many of the neonatal nurse's former colleagues are still struggling to come to terms with the full extent of her crimes

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Officer Dibble]

It does beg the question had she had brothers and sisters would she have committed these despicable acts? In this particular instance being a spoilt only child who appears to have never grown up has possibly led to her selfishness and wanting to be centre of attention. JMO

I was thinking along the lines of the article I posted that we are discussing, where the siblings were tortured - which would potentially show more character traits as a child and highlight more to parents the difference in this child compared to siblings. JMO MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

‘Unrequited affection’ is not the term I’d use after hearing some of the messages he sent her, nor after learning of their little meet ups, trip to London etc…

In the beginning I thought we’d see LL being more into him than he was her however knowing what we do now, the last words I’d use to describe this ‘relationship’ would be ‘unrequited affection from LL’ but that is JMO call a spade a spade it was an affair whether emotional, physical or both IMO

I agree. JMO

 

[ScotAng]

'They are finding it difficult to believe she could have done it, because for so long they were fed the narrative that Letby was being blamed by consultants who were making excuses for their own mistakes.'

I find that wording bizarre. Almost like this happened in the past year or two.

The last anyone worked with her was over 7 years ago now. From then onwards, investigations were ongoing.
Are we supposed to believe nursing staff were being fed that narrative from then until before the trial?
Even after management had been replaced?

There's something wrong with this picture.

 

[cottonweaver]

I find that wording bizarre. Almost like this happened in the past year or two.

The last anyone worked with her was over 7 years ago now. From then onwards, investigations were ongoing.
Are we supposed to believe nursing staff were being fed that narrative from then until before the trial?
Even after management had been replaced?

There's something wrong with this picture.

IDK ScotAng but bear in mind that the Defence's theory was ' conspiracy' ( When that kind of thing comes out of the mouth of a barrister, those who want to believe , will find corroboration there.)

There's another pal in the Times piece today ( The one whom ColourPurple has just mentioned, she attended the trial sitting with mum & dad)
She's 57, life-long nurse, retired now. She's old enough to remember Allitt. ( She's not some young 24yr old newbie nurse born after that time)

Where's the curiosity - like you say, over the 7 years. Wouldn't you be curious and want to look at past cases even though it was your best friend.
Allitt started out as an adolescent who was a pathological liar, exhibiting what was then called Munchausens. She progressed onto harming others instead, by proxy. Attacks included insulin.

Times in a different article tells us that LL also was known for things such as
'carrying a rucksack full of remedies for any eventuality — plasters for cuts, antiseptic wipes for grazes and spare tampons — according to the friends she grew up with.'

 

[ColourPurple]

'They are finding it difficult to believe she could have done it, because for so long they were fed the narrative that Letby was being blamed by consultants who were making excuses for their own mistakes.'
I find that wording bizarre. Almost like this happened in the past year or two.

The last anyone worked with her was over 7 years ago now. From then onwards, investigations were ongoing.
Are we supposed to believe nursing staff were being fed that narrative from then until before the trial?
Even after management had been replaced?

There's something wrong with this picture.

Well we know from the trial that she was still socialising with colleagues after being moved off the ward so I'd assume that she was the one feeding them that narrative... until at least her first arrest and possibly beyond if Janet and Dawn's misguided loyalty is anything to go by!

Remember she had a written apology from the consultants in Feb 2017 that she could show people too, and the promise of the hospital funding her masters degree, to add weight to her scapegoat narrative.

 

[ColourPurple]

IDK ScotAng but bear in mind that the Defence's theory was ' conspiracy' ( When that kind of thing comes out of the mouth of a barrister, those who want to believe , will find corroboration there.)

There's another pal in the Times piece today ( The one whom ColourPurple has just mentioned, she attended the trial sitting with mum & dad)
She's 57, life-long nurse, retired now. She's old enough to remember Allitt. ( She's not some young 24yr old newbie nurse born after that time)

Where's the curiosity - like you say, over the 7 years. Wouldn't you be curious and want to look at past cases even though it was your best friend.
Allitt started out as an adolescent who was a pathological liar, exhibiting what was then called Munchausens. She progressed onto harming others instead, by proxy. Attacks included insulin.

Times in a different article tells us that LL also was known for things such as
'carrying a rucksack full of remedies for any eventuality — plasters for cuts, antiseptic wipes for grazes and spare tampons — according to the friends she grew up with.'

Interesting from one of the nurses:

Those who worked alongside Letby have their theories. One nurse, who gave evidence at the trial and asked not to be named, told The Times that she believed Letby craved the “drama and attention” that her attacks on babies brought.

“Hurting babies was a win-win situation for her,” she said. “If they didn’t die she’d get the praise of being the person who helped resuscitate them. If they died, she’d get the sympathy for being the one whose baby died while trying to save them.”...

The nurse who worked with her described her as enthusiastic and keen to learn, which occasionally bordered on being a “teacher’s pet”.
She was not universally popular on the unit, the nurse said, and “rubbed some people up the wrong way” with her “air of superiority”.

“There were people who thought she was stuck up,” she said. “I didn’t think she was cold but I could see why some people did. She liked things just so and she stuck to the rules rigidly — or at least gave the impression that she did. She was always quick to point out the failings of others. She would always be the first person to tell you off if you had done something wrong.”

https://archive.ph/26e6u#selection-1173.0-1194.0

 

[Anxala]

She was always quick to point out the failings of others. She would always be the first person to tell you off if you had done something wrong.”

RSBM

^ Crikey. That gives new and uncharted meaning to 'do as I say, not as I do'.

 

[JosieJo]

Interesting from one of the nurses:

Those who worked alongside Letby have their theories. One nurse, who gave evidence at the trial and asked not to be named, told The Times that she believed Letby craved the “drama and attention” that her attacks on babies brought.

“Hurting babies was a win-win situation for her,” she said. “If they didn’t die she’d get the praise of being the person who helped resuscitate them. If they died, she’d get the sympathy for being the one whose baby died while trying to save them.”...

The nurse who worked with her described her as enthusiastic and keen to learn, which occasionally bordered on being a “teacher’s pet”.
She was not universally popular on the unit, the nurse said, and “rubbed some people up the wrong way” with her “air of superiority”.

“There were people who thought she was stuck up,” she said. “I didn’t think she was cold but I could see why some people did. She liked things just so and she stuck to the rules rigidly — or at least gave the impression that she did. She was always quick to point out the failings of others. She would always be the first person to tell you off if you had done something wrong.”

https://archive.ph/26e6u#selection-1173.0-1194.0

This is exactly how I imagined her to be

 

[ScotAng]

Well we know from the trial that she was still socialising with colleagues after being moved off the ward so I'd assume that she was the one feeding them that narrative... until at least her first arrest and possibly beyond if Janet and Dawn's misguided loyalty is anything to go by!

Remember she had a written apology from the consultants in Feb 2017 that she could show people too, and the promise of the hospital funding her masters degree, to add weight to her scapegoat narrative.

Right. Herself and at least one senior nursing colleague, I imagine.
Why I believe any who worked with her & who did/does think her innocent, bought right into her.

You know, I've an adult daughter who refused to believe she did it. I linked her to Allit, Shipman, etc., and she still thought Lucy 'different' to them. Her sister nearly had a falling out with her because she's one of those people who looks for the good in people and sticks with it. So I get there's naivety, gullibility & people like my own who also probably has a mix of both traits, which forever surprises me. (It was only during the trialshe changed her mind, btw).

I guess I just can't understand why 'they' - any colleague - would still believe in her innocence now. Unless they totally blanked the trial, on 'orders'.

 

[IDK]

Now she is in prison forever and I wonder if she is being forced emotionally) to confront what she has done. She reminds me of the song “Behind Blue Eyes” by the Who ( not that I care one whit about her, just interesting to try and comprehend):

“No one knows what it's like
To be the bad man
To be the sad man
Behind blue eyes
And no one knows what it's like
To be hated
To be fated to telling only lies
But my dreams they aren't as empty
As my conscience seems to be
I have hours, only lonely
My love is vengeance
That's never free”

“But my dreams they aren't as empty
As my conscience seems to be
I have hours, only lonely
My love is vengeance
That's never free”

 

[Sundial]

This is exactly how I imagined her to be

It’s the impression I had too.

It resembles some of the posters thoughts here already in regards to her parents- that potential expectation (it was quoted by another user you could just imagine them discussing how great and successful their daughter was, the poster girl for the fundraiser- here’s a thought, did her dad contribute to the fundraiser/unit?.. )
THEN the mothers comments heard outside the court “the mother of the nurse” etc, her outbursts.. when LL was arrested and when the verdict was given.

And yet.. she was still a band 5. Interesting.
As one of the parents reports given recently put it; Entitled. And boy it seems so.

The entitled princess on a pedestal.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Might be a cliche but they do say that some women sometimes choose married men precisely because they are unavailable. Plus, as you say, why choose him? Hard to believe there aren't any hot male nurses across that hospital . Ok, the married registrar supplies status and he's a shield. Didn't he protect her in some ways against the accusations and tip her off with info too? OTOH I do get the impression she admired him and wanted his favour/attention

I appreciate that I've previously said that she comes across as asexual to me - maybe that is due to the arrested development vibe I get from her.

I don't think relationships/sex/ romance were her drivers even at young age of 25.
I've only caught up with a few of the texts with the registrar. From those it wouldn't surprise me if their illicit 'affair' had only been ' consummated ' once at most after a ton of booze ( London trip/s)

Just my impressions FWIW

BBM: Supposing you were correct (see bolded part). Knowing you would likely never have a baby - could that have played a part, I wonder? JMO MOO

 

[cuecard]

It’s the Daily Mail so take with the usual pinch of salt but as I said earlier in the thread I don’t think it’ll be the end of all this with LL.

Lucy Letby detectives find evidence of 'malevolence' in 12 more cases

Letby, 33 (pictured), was jailed for life on Monday after being found guilty of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder six others - but police are examining the records of 4,000 other babies.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Charlot123]

I've started to wonder if LL is gay or asexual. By now I would have expected some sort of kiss and tell story from her past in the gutter press but there just doesn't seem to be anybody but "friends" in her life. There's only so long a married man would have a purely emotional affair before a lack of sex would lead to the relationship fizzling out JMO.

It could be. However, where I live, I know many gay couples who married and adopted kids and some who had their own. I yet have to see a person who'd decide to kill babies because they are gay/asexual. They'd likely not become baby nurses, but killing babies is linked to very flawed thinking, not sexual preferences. Now, if Lucy, growing up in a very religious house, was not allowed to be anything but a straight woman who'd one day have kids, it is different.

Sorry I meant hearing of the messages. They were reported during the trial so the proper word would be read.

The messages came out during the trial, things such as ‘oh Lucy you poor thing’ ‘please stop doubting yourself, it is not you, it is the babies’ ‘you are of the only nurses I would trust with my own children’ there were more asking if she wanted to borrow his car, him giving her a lift home, he brought her chocolate, him concerned about her after she pricked her finger during the resus of baby P. Him sharing information about meetings with other senior members of staff, there were heart emojis and other nauseus ‘sweetie’ names.

They met up on numberous occasions and took a trip to London together. This was an affair whether emotional or physical. Of course if he is trying to save his marriage he will describe it was ‘unrequited affection’ and perhaps it was at the end. Before LL’s arrest perhaps it had dawned on him that he had been used and deceived by a baby killer. Maybe he distanced himself then, ghosted her. Prompting her cries of ‘I loved you’ and writing his name next to hearts on post it notes.
From this article

She also wrote: "My best friend...LOVE...I loved you and I think you knew that...I wanted you to stand by me but you didn't."

Letby also searched for the doctor's spouse multiple times on Facebook.

Lucy Letby 'attacked at least four babies' in desperate bid to bond with doctor

Lucy Letby deliberately manufactured "crisis situations" at work to get closer to a married doctor - all while she murdered babies.

www.express.co.uk

.

I don't know what the relationship really was, but I think it was some form of "father's complex" on Lucy's side. Lots of immature girls hook up with much older men, and usually for the same reason, "I know what they have already achieved". Maybe it is a developmental phase, and usually women grow out of it.

 

[JosieJo]

Regarding Dr Choc...I think she had feelings for him .I just can't see her having had much experience in the relationship department and I think this was her first experience of a relationship..whatever form it took.
For him..who I "imagine" to be geeky , quiet , and not a "George Clooney"...married from a young age..it was flattering and nice..I'd imagine he hadn't "lived" much either

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

I've just watched this; I think others here may be interested in it.

 

[iamshadow21]

It could be. However, where I live, I know many gay couples who married and adopted kids and some who had their own. I yet have to see a person who'd decide to kill babies because they are gay/asexual. They'd likely not become baby nurses, but killing babies is linked to very flawed thinking, not sexual preferences. Now, if Lucy, growing up in a very religious house, was not allowed to be anything but a straight woman who'd one day have kids, it is different.
.

I don't know what the relationship really was, but I think it was some form of "father's complex" on Lucy's side. Lots of immature girls hook up with much older men, and usually for the same reason, "I know what they have already achieved". Maybe it is a developmental phase, and usually women grow out of it.

I haven't seen any evidence of devout or extreme conservative religiosity. There's enough information out there about Letby's birth for me to form that conclusion.

MOO

BARBARA DAVIES: Lucy Letby's parents shared loving looks with her

BARBARA DAVIES: Baby killer Lucy Letby was born in January 1990, six months after her parents John and Susan married and not long after they bought the house where they still live in Hereford.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[May72031]

Another added: “I know there are people who still want answers. But we still don’t know how this is going to end.”

It is understood that at least three colleagues of Letby have been diagnosed with PTSD, and a number of others suffer from severe depression and anxiety.

Some have left the country, others have left nursing, but the majority remain living and working in the area.

The last 5 years must have been hell for the other nurses. The last week or so, even worse. I can easily believe some of them would have moved elsewhere.

 

[Anxala]

Right. Herself and at least one senior nursing colleague, I imagine.
Why I believe any who worked with her & who did/does think her innocent, bought right into her.

You know, I've an adult daughter who refused to believe she did it. I linked her to Allit, Shipman, etc., and she still thought Lucy 'different' to them. Her sister nearly had a falling out with her because she's one of those people who looks for the good in people and sticks with it. So I get there's naivety, gullibility & people like my own who also probably has a mix of both traits, which forever surprises me. (It was only during the trialshe changed her mind, btw).

I guess I just can't understand why 'they' - any colleague - would still believe in her innocence now. Unless they totally blanked the trial, on 'orders'.

If they were gaslit for long enough, I can understand it, even now. And I completely understand your daughter's position.

Imagine having to rethink everything you've ever known or thought about someone you felt you knew inside out, someone you've shared your childhood/working life with, chat, gossip, nights in, drinks down the pub, days/nights out, holidays, someone you've shared yourself with, all your vulnerable bits, someone you've laughed and cried with, etc etc. Because that's what they're having to do, these colleagues and friends of hers that are standing by her; they're having to process and try to come to terms with and accept the monumentally difficult and disturbing fact that everything they thought they knew about her was a lie.

I don't see their current 'stuck' position as generated by naivety or gullibility, more them just still being unable, trial evidence and verdict notwithstanding, to process the staggering fact that the LL they felt entirely entitled to think they knew the bones of is the same LL who's just been sentenced to life imprisonment for multiple counts of murder and attempted murder.

I followed this case from the off. I was on the fence right up to the day we got the verdicts. It's not that I couldn't see the grim evidence against her mounting up - I wasn't wearing earmuffs and a blindfold on my fence - it was more that I found it so hard to let go the part of me that wanted an alternative explanation and a different outcome.

And that was me, a detached bystander, with no stake in LL.

Sadly, I get it.