GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

[Officer Dibble]

It is not unusual for for friends, and even close friends who were adamant of someone's innocence, to slowly distance themselves once the cognitive dissonance wears off. Might not be the case with LL's parents, though.

Would be interesting to know if her friends still have the same opinion, down the line.

Some people have that thing where unless they physically saw it or witnessed it themselves, then its not true. Inflexible thinking.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Given how she looked up the parents social media and kept hundreds of handover sheets I'm not convinced she won't enjoy reading those transcripts. She'll keep them as trophies. I think she didn't go just as an 'f you' to the families, but I'm sure she'll be quite happy to read about how pained they are. Its what she wanted.

omg I hadn't thought of that! Yes. I think you are right. JMO. MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

EXCLUSIVE: Detective Sergeant who interviewed Lucy Letby reveals the killer was 'cool and devoid of emotion' when talking about the murder of babies in her care


Lucy Letby was 'cool' and devoid of 'emotion' when talking about the murder of babies in her care, the police officer who interviewed her told the Mail today.

Detective Sergeant Danielle Stonier said questioning Britain's most prolific child killer was 'surreal' and 'intense' at times.

And she said that she believed the calculating neo-natal nurse only spoke to police because she wanted to know what evidence they had against her, so she could try to outsmart them.

Detective who interviewed Lucy Letby says she was 'devoid of emotion'

Detective Sergeant Danielle Stonier said questioning Britain's most prolific child killer was 'surreal' and 'intense' at times.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Apologies if it’s been posted before

BBM: Well maybe whoever posted it yesterday was correct suggesting Alexithymia was involved. MOO.

 

[cottonweaver]

We're probably benefitting from the luxury of hindsight here.
Who knows which camp we would have been in if we had been one of LL's colleagues - whether nurse or doctor - back in summer and autumn 2015.

Maybe we'd have also been saying ' No! Not nice Lucy' like Stephen Brearley himself did at the start?
Maybe we'd have thought that one shouldn't rush to judgement when all we had were suspicions, hunches and correlations?

 

[notsure]

While there was even a glimmer of suspicion of foul play, surely they could have put some kind of safeguards in place, e.g., there must be two nurses present at all times whenever a baby is being cared for.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I wonder what she is doing today?

 

[Dotta]

We're probably benefitting from the luxury of hindsight here.
Who knows which camp we would have been in if we had been one of LL's colleagues - whether nurse or doctor - back in summer and autumn 2015.

Maybe we'd have also been saying ' No! Not nice Lucy' like Stephen Brearley himself did at the start?
Maybe we'd have thought that one shouldn't rush to judgement when all we had were suspicions, hunches and correlations?

Exactly!
I see that Consultants are still being bashed here by some who fiercely defended LL even when evidence was shown in the trial.
Not to metion experts being vilified.

 

[Becky53]

I wonder what she is doing today?

No doubt feeling sorry for herself…

 

[d0lphin]

While there was even a glimmer of suspicion of foul play, surely they could have put some kind of safeguards in place, e.g., there must be two nurses present at all times whenever a baby is being cared for.

I've read that they were short staffed by 25% so it wouldn't have been possible.

 

[Cuko]

I've thought this too, although I guess what stopped them is the thought that without the backup and support of hospital management, the cops would shrug it off. It’s all I can think of. I guess in the back of your mind you might be second guessing yourself as well. After all, it’s not like at the time there was all the evidence we have now.

I disagree. The evidence was there all along. LL was the only person present in that room on every occasion of a baby collapsing.

 

[d0lphin]

I wonder what she is doing today?

Hopefully feeling thoroughly miserable and scared but somehow I doubt it.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Exactly!
I see that Consultants are still being bashed here by some who fiercely defended LL even when evidence was shown in the trial.
Not to metion experts being vilified.

I’ll bite here. I played devils advocate during this trial because the idea that a nurse was able to kill children for (at least) an entire year, in plain sight, while the people around her were so suspicious of her but chose not to record those suspicions or even the issues which caused the suspicions (eg Baby K’s collapse, the fleeting rashes etc) was so completely incredibly unbelievable to me that I struggled to accept it was in any way possible or probable.

What now transpires is that not only DID that actually happen, but it is so much worse than previously imagined.

Even if I were to accept that the consultants could not gather enough evidence to go to the police prior to June 2016, they still chose not to do it even when Ian Harvey decided to call the royal college in instead of the police. They still chose not to whistleblow.

It’s the bystander effect, with tragic consequences.

 

[mrjitty]

We're probably benefitting from the luxury of hindsight here.
Who knows which camp we would have been in if we had been one of LL's colleagues - whether nurse or doctor - back in summer and autumn 2015.

Maybe we'd have also been saying ' No! Not nice Lucy' like Stephen Brearley himself did at the start?
Maybe we'd have thought that one shouldn't rush to judgement when all we had were suspicions, hunches and correlations?

You see this a lot with fraud.

When i was just starting out, a local solicitor's practice collapsed and it turned out he had been ripping off his little old lady clients via an investment company that had turned into a ponzi. When the scale of his fraud was revealed, some of his clients were total dead enders in their support for him

Personally I think it is very hard to get people to accept that someone they know well is actually a very bad actor - let alone a serial killer.

 

[Eloise]

I disagree. The evidence was there all along. LL was the only person present in that room on every occasion of a baby collapsing.

It took them time to come up with that data. Its very easy to see that pattern now when the evidence has been laid out for us. At the time they didn't even know about the insulin cases. That all came later when picking through all the data later, for example.
Also they wouldn't have known at the time about her falsifying records, or about all the times she was in places she shouldn't have been. They had a hunch, they didn't have the full picture we have now after literal years of police work.
I don't think crucifying the only people who tried to get anything done is really the right thing to do here. It's all Lucy's fault enabled to a degree by some poor management, but its not the doctors fault. It's Lucy's 100%.

 

[Dotta]

I’ll bite here. I played devils advocate during this trial because the idea that a nurse was able to kill children for (at least) an entire year, in plain sight, while the people around her were so suspicious of her but chose not to record those suspicions or even the issues which caused the suspicions (eg Baby K’s collapse, the fleeting rashes etc) was so completely incredibly unbelievable to me that I struggled to accept it was in any way possible or probable.

What now transpires is that not only DID that actually happen, but it is so much worse than previously imagined.

Even if I were to accept that the consultants could not gather enough evidence to go to the police prior to June 2016, they still chose not to do it even when Ian Harvey decided to call the royal college in instead of the police. They still chose not to whistleblow.

It’s the bystander effect, with tragic consequences.

And yet,
If not Consultants, this case would never see the light of the day.

Let's be honest and pay respect where it is due.

 

[kittythehare]

NHS nursing boss denies ignoring doctor's warnings about Lucy Letby

Karen Moore, the former head of urgent care nursing at the Countess of Chester, is facing questions about the way she handled concerns raised over Letby, who was jailed for life.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[May72031]

I wonder what she is doing today?

Is her cell large enough for salsa?

 

[Parker Knoll]

My take on this is that the consultants were stuck between a rock and a hard place.
They were raising their concerns 8 years ago but nobody knew back then what we know now, they were dealing with information at the time. It’s easy to say “ go to the police “ They went through the correct channels and got pretty much nowhere for a very long time. The insulin was missed by a doctor not understanding it’s relevance and that was rock solid evidence. Back then it was like doing a jigsaw puzzle but without knowing actually what the picture was. We can see it clearly and chronologically but they couldn’t back then. If they hadn’t followed procedure it was very likely that they would of actually been fobbed off completely for the sake of the the CoC “ reputation “ which management seemed to put before anything. Letby was expecting to be called into a police interview like her colleagues had at Blacon Police Station as at that point she had had a letter of apology and an offer of doing her Masters and a observational role at AH. What she didn’t expect is that knock on her door, formal arrest and escorted out of her house in handcuffs that’s how sure she was of herself.
If someone in Hollywood had pitched this story they would say it was too crazy and far fetched.

 

[WaxLyrical]

And yet,
If not Consultants, this case would never see the light of the day.

Let's be honest and pay respect where it is due.

We have no idea what would have happened if they had blown the whistle after Baby D, as they ought to have done.

 

[iamshadow21]

Anything is possible but there's no source for the twin thing and I tend to agree with other WS-ers, that attacking twins & triplets was a sick challenge & extra excitement for her.
WS-er IAmShadow(?) made the interesting point about creating maximum drama almost like a hospital drama. ( Following on from her post, I noticed that two previously convicted nurse serial murderers were - according to trial records - likely inspired by dramatic Holby City storylines & other shows they'd recently watched)

Not having followed the case or trial from the outset IDK the timeline for twins & triplets but it might also be worth considering? that serial murderers often escalate (t is believed they escalate to achieve the 'high' they crave)

The info re LL's purported ' difficult birth' came from her staunch supporter and old friend D on Panorama.
As other WS members have noted, this claim - significantly - wasn't included in her backstory at trial.

In the same interview D also claimed that LL's owning two rescue cats was further corroboration that she didn't have the capacity to harm the vulnerable (In reality plenty of psychopaths have empathy for pets but zero mercy for their human victims)

Contrary to D's comments on how ' gentle, soft, kind' LL is, I think LL was able to completely dehumanise both babies & their parents ( especially the babies because she's seems not to have met many of the parents before attacking or killing their babies.)

We have stark evidence about how, even during routine tasks, LL was not the caring, diligent professional she claimed to be.
The mask slips. eg Child N's feed. She's so busy texting with her friend ( 41 texts) that she cannot be bothered to feed the child properly & Johnson KC says, instead of using two hands to gradually administer the feed over the 20 mins required, she just ' pushes it in.

This baby was haemophiliac.

details of the texting/feeding in this post at the 12.57 timestamp : UK - Lucy Letby Trial - Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*
If you follow the rest of the posts on the same page, you can read of the later attacks on this baby

It wasn't me! I did talk about her selecting babies for maximum hurt, those who had had to fight the hardest, those who were multiple births, those with existing conditions, those whose parents had had rounds of IVF or pregnancy loss before, but somebody else brought up that she was creating and acting out her own TV drama. Not my idea, but an excellent one and it explains a lot if it was part of how she got ideas and 'plotted out' her actions.

MOO