GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

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Moll said:
I agree.
These links with interviews with Dr Ravi Jayaram were probably posted on the last thread but I'll post them again:
https://www.itv.com/watch/news/babi...lped-catch-lucy-letby-blames-hospital/xcytcvm
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-08-21/doctor-who-helped-catch-lucy-letby-calls-for-full-public-inquiry

Now that the trial's over, people come here to revive old issues that were picked over at length during it 'Why didn't they go to the police immediately?' and even the allegation that LL was let down by her defence. 'I don't know why he took the case'. Unbelievable.

So many people on here have been knowledgeable and helpful, though - thanks to them, special thanks to Tortoise as always, and to marynnu for insights into neonatal nursing.
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She wasn’t let down by the defence. The defence did not have much of a defence to throw around Which in reality is only going to become apparent once the defence has finished which is very late in the trial. It’s not a bad thing to hear both sides of a story and then judge after. Nobody is a Lucy letby defender if you got that angle go and speak to mr Myers about it. He literally defended her.
 
DianaWW said:
I bet they torture themselves with that thought every single day. I watched the interviews with them and they are broken. They had a hunch at the time, but very little to back it up. They needed backing from management and the board if they had a chance of being taken seriously. The management are the ones that refused to investigate properly, refused to escalate their concerns, and misled the board to try and brush everything under the carpet. If we have to blame anyone, other than the actual murderer, let's start with them. JMO.
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Exactly this
 
Dotta said:
Being locked in a small room in solitary, without hope and for the rest of life is like being buried alive IMO.

But then, as a saying goes:

"We are all blacksmiths of our Fate"
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Totally agree. It's game over, basically.

I will happily pay every penny of my taxes knowing that she will never again walk in the countryside listening to the birds sing, or walking along a beautiful beach as the tide rolls in and out and feel the warmth of the sun. All the little things; those are what will hit the hardest. As well as the friendless years of isolation, and the constant fear of attack if she does encounter other inmates. 50 years of a dull, grubby, miserable, pointless, worthless, hopeless existence, lurking in the shadows that evil creatures inhabit, with zero chance of being free - a living death. She fully deserves it, and I hope that gives the families of the victims some comfort.

I'm now in my mid 50s, retired, and can pretty much do what I please - as long as my cat is happy! Freedom is priceless.

My thoughts remain with the parents of those poor babies.

R.I.P.
 
Yesterday was so very heartbreaking I watched the sentencing then just had to switch off for a while. To try and process this all now it has become so terribly and shockingly real.

I have been quite vocal about my opinions on LL and was considering a long drawn out post about what I personally think caused her to do these evil things.
I just can’t at the minute.

All I have to say is may Lucy Letby rot in misery for the rest of her pathetic life. And may the parents of her victims find some solace and comfort in knowing that she will never ever be released, never free to harm another child and never free to inflict such trauma and devestation on any more families.

I think these words from the parents of little baby E & F and A & B are what should ring in her ears more than anything. Lucy Letby is no one from this day forward, she is a prison number and serving a whole life order. She is insignificant, she is a nobody. She doesn’t deserve notoriety, Netflix documentaries or to go down in history as a prolific child killer. She needs to fade away and cease to exist. She has no power or control any longer.

We have been living a nightmare, but for me, it ends today. I refuse to wake up with my first thought be about my boys being harmed. Lucy no longer has control over our lives. She holds no power or relevance in anybody's life. She is nothing. We have all been robbed of so much.

You thought that you could enter our lives and turn it upside down, but you will never win. We hope you live a very long life and spend every single day suffering for what you have done. Maybe you thought by doing this you would be remembered forever. But I want you to know my family will never think of you again from this day, you are nothing.

My only words today are for the families. May you now be free to rebuild and heal from such terrible trauma, and find comfort in the fact that justice has been served. Lucy Letby will never have children or marry - just as she said. Her life is now meaningless and pointless. May the families find happiness again and be proud of their dignity, grace, respect for the court and their powerful words spoken from the heart. You represented your babies, you’ve done them proud. My heart goes out to each and every one of them.

Lucy can spend eternity in the great big hole she dug herself. Evil personified.
 
WaxLyrical said:
Same. Whole of life orders are controversial enough given they are an alternative to the death penalty. Generally in this country we aim for rehabilitation not punishment. I understand the issue surrounding Letby is emotionally charged and nobody wants her back in society. But a whole of life order is enough.
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Yes, the punishment is the loss of freedom and autonomy for the rest of her life. That's more than enough. Bleak but fitting in this case.

Sweeper2000 said:
She wasn’t let down by the defence. The defence did not have much of a defence to throw around Which in reality is only going to become apparent once the defence has finished which is very late in the trial. It’s not a bad thing to hear both sides of a story and then judge after. Nobody is a Lucy letby defender if you got that angle go and speak to mr Myers about it. He literally defended her.
Click to expand...

I think you've misunderstood Moll's post.
 
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Teignmouth 22 said:
Totally agree. It's game over, basically.

I will happily pay every penny of my taxes knowing that she will never again walk in the countryside listening to the birds sing, or walking along a beautiful beach as the tide rolls in and out and feel the warmth of the sun. All the little things; those are what will hit the hardest. As well as the friendless years of isolation, and the constant fear of attack if she does encounter other inmates. 50 years of a dull, grubby, miserable, pointless, worthless, hopeless existence, lurking in the shadows that evil creatures inhabit, with zero chance of being free - a living death. She fully deserves it, and I hope that gives the families of the victims some comfort.

I'm now in my mid 50s, retired, and can pretty much do what I please - as long as my cat is happy! Freedom is priceless.

My thoughts remain with the parents of those poor babies.

R.I.P.
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Absolutely!
Living as a free person is the greatest gift!
Being one own's boss.
Not having to bow to others.

Being arrogant and condescending towards others - and now having no control and forced to conform to strict rules, must be maddening to this criminal.
Ha!

JMO
 
Moll said:
I agree.
These links with interviews with Dr Ravi Jayaram were probably posted on the last thread but I'll post them again:
https://www.itv.com/watch/news/babi...lped-catch-lucy-letby-blames-hospital/xcytcvm
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-08-21/doctor-who-helped-catch-lucy-letby-calls-for-full-public-inquiry

Now that the trial's over, people come here to revive old issues that were picked over at length during it 'Why didn't they go to the police immediately?' and even the allegation that LL was let down by her defence. 'I don't know why he took the case'. Unbelievable.

So many people on here have been knowledgeable and helpful, though - thanks to them, special thanks to Tortoise as always, and to marynnu for insights into neonatal nursing.
Click to expand...
I'd like to give special thanks to all the posters who tried to remain impartial throughout the discussions, instead of assuming guilt. Thankfully, the jurors themselves gave thoughtful consideration to all aspects of the case, as is reflected in their complex verdict.
 
WaxLyrical said:
We have no idea what would have happened if they had blown the whistle after Baby D, as they ought to have done.
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I wasn't going to reply but as you have since posted this:

'.... while the people around her were so suspicious of her but chose not to record those suspicions or even the issues which caused the suspicions ..... was so completely incredibly unbelievable to me that I struggled to accept it was in any way possible or probable....'

I thought I better had.

You know this case and trial far better than me so I'm sure that some of these dates will already be familiar.

Now if the head consultant SB and other doctor JV quoted below are so naive that they have made up all these records of their suspicions and issues, that will surely be revealed in the forthcoming inquiry.

Baby D 22nd June 2015

around a week later on Thursday, 2 July 2015..... '
Stephen Brearey first connected Lucy Letby to a series of unusual baby deaths on the neonatal unit where they worked in a meeting with the hospital’s head of nursing and two other colleague. At this point he could barely believe it himself. “It can’t be Lucy. Not nice Lucy' ( He'd called a meeting with Alison Kelly, the hospital’s head of nursing, and Eirian Powell, the manager of the neonatal unit' )

He had no proof, Kelly & Powell were incredulous.

'Brearey, the head consultant paediatrician on the unit, carried out an urgent review but 'there was no obvious cause for the deaths' ( according to the link. I assume he was hoping to find obvious natural causes rather than prove the 'unthinkable' )

What did he do next? Another review and raises it with senior managers

Another review, in October 2015.
'Another review, in October 2015, again found that Letby was the only staff member present at each of the unexplained deaths. Powell is understood to have raised the mortality rate again with Kelly and another senior manager, but the connection to Letby was felt to be just coincidence, according to Brearey.' LL was allowed to remain on the unit. '

Oct 2015 Another consultant, Dr Ravi Jayaram, alerts management to their concerns but is told “not to make a fuss”
“Karen Rees said ‘no’ to that and that there was no evidence.

What next? ( not sure of the date the report was commissioned - possibly Jan 2016)
'....senior doctors, who had been prepared to give the young nurse the benefit of the doubt, were now becoming increasingly concerned. They asked an independent expert, Dr Nimish Subhedar, to carry out a review of the unusual deaths to find any common themes......'

Next?
in early February 2016....
'Brearey sent the report to the hospital’s medical director, Ian Harvey, in early February 2016 and requested an urgent meeting. ... Yet despite the rising death toll, no such meeting took place for another three months. This, according to Brearey and other senior doctors, is the point when action should have been taken. Letby’s connection to the deaths was now more than just a coincidence'

March 2: Dr Brearey emails Ms Powell about organising a meeting, saying: 'We still need to talk about Letby.'


In May 2016, by which time Letby had murdered five babies, a hospital manager produced a two-page document responding to the concerns of Brearey and his fellow consultant paediatricians. It was the first time anyone beyond the senior doctors had initiated a formal review of the concerns, despite their gravity.“The assurance” document, seen by the Guardian, set out why Letby was not believed to be the cause of the unusual deaths. It suggests other NHS services may be to blame for the spike in deaths and that: “There is no evidence whatsoever against LL [Letby] other than coincidence”. Brearey feels his concerns have been dismissed.
www.theguardian.com

‘Trust me, I’m a nurse’: Why wasn’t Lucy Letby stopped as months of murder went by?

It took almost two years for the police to be called in to investigate baby deaths at the Countess of Chester hospital. Now, after Letby’s conviction, a picture of ‘Kafkaesque’ obfuscation is emerging
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

June 24: Child P, one of a set of triplet boys, collapses and dies a day after the death in the unit of his newborn brother, Child O. Dr Brearey phones duty executive on call, Karen Rees, a senior nurse in the urgent care division, to say he and his consultant colleagues do not want Letby to work her next scheduled shift on June 25 but she rejects the plea. ( Rees has since claimed that she didn't have enough info at this stage to suspend LL from the unit)

'She (Ms Rees) was familiar with our concerns already. I explained what had happened and I didn’t want nurse Letby to come back to work the following day or until this was all investigated properly.'

June 2016
The unit's lead consultant Stephen Brearey even went back to management in the hours after Baby P's death on June 24, 2016, begging them to take Letby off the ward. They refused.

June 29: The 'tipping point' has now happened. Consultants discuss recent 'inexplicable' events and then urge hospital bosses to remove Letby from the unit as a safety measure. Dr Brearey tells duty manager Karen Rees to replace Letby. Ms Rees initially refuses, but Letby is then told for the first time of her links to the deaths in a meeting.

- June 30: Letby works her last nursing shift on the neonatal unit.

July 15th 2016' medical director Mr Harvey had asked the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health (RCPCH) to conduct a review of the unit's service.' ( I am assuming that Brearey finally thinks he might get a proper investigation but we now know that this RC review was limited in scope by the management team)

September 7: Letby registers a formal grievance procedure against her employer. Around this time the Royal College of Nursing union informs her by letter about allegations surrounding her involvement with a number of deaths. ( she wins this grievance and is rewarded with offers of MA and placement offers for Alder Hey)

November. RCPCH review concludes. ( Doesn't find any evidence of crime because the review had been limited in scope by the management)

then we know what happened next, just days before LL is due to return to the unit, the police are informed, ( There are some links out there which recount how pressure was applied to force notification to the police but I can't be bothered to go re-find them, post is long enough as it is.)

www.dailymail.co.uk

How hospital bosses refused to believe Lucy Letby was behind deaths

Lucy Letby, 33, from Hereford, murdered seven babies and tried to kill six more while working at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit between 2015 and 2016.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk



Jan 2017 Letby parents meet with Chambers and demand letter of apology for LL. Threats are made to report the consultants to the GMC. They get what they want.
Dr Jayaram said Chambers held a meeting with consultants in January 2017 in which he stated: 'I'm drawing a line under this, you will draw a line under this, and if you cross that line, there will be consequences for you.'

In a letter, which has been seen by ITV News, consultants allegedly wrote under duress: 'Dear Lucy, we would like to apologise for any inappropriate comments that may have been made during this difficult period. We are very sorry for the stress and upset that you have experienced in the last year. Please be reassured that patient safety has been our absolute priority during this difficult time.'

www.theguardian.com

Timeline of Lucy Letby’s attacks on babies and when alarm was raised

How events unfolded in neonatal unit where killer nurse worked at Countess of Chester hospital
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

whistleblowers' law appeal can be found here.
'The current law, the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998, has been in place for twenty years. It has failed to effectively protect whistleblowers. Whistleblowers are united in calling for the current law to be replaced'

minhalexander.com

Send this letter to your MP to help protect UK whistleblowers

By Minh Alexander and Clare Sardari @SardariClare, NHS whistleblowers, 18 May 2018 Whistleblowers speak up to protect other people’s rights and to prevent harm to the public. It is up to par…
minhalexander.com minhalexander.com
 
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Dotta said:
Absolutely!
Living as a free person is the greatest gift!
Being one own's boss.
Not having to bow to others.

Being arrogant and condescending towards others - and now having no control and forced to conform to strict rules, must be maddening to this criminal.
Ha!

JMO
Click to expand...
True. Even so, her suffering is as nothing compared to that of the poor parents of those babies :(
 
Taskforce88 said:
I wonder if there was the risk of them losing their jobs and that was a reason for not doing more.
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In which case they should've marched proudly down to the police station, safe in.the knowledge that losing a job is worth it when lives are at stake, innocent, vulnerable baby's lives ...
 
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Sweeper2000 said:
I remember cs2c mentioning that in court she seemed almost infallible which I think you can notice in the video of her arrest. Even if she knew to expect them she was quite unbothered both in tone and deed. Seemed unfazed For someone with no prior experience with the police. I thought maybe because her dad was there they did expect it as well. I don’t understand how she thought her lie about the trauma of her arrest was going to work. The arresting officers could not have been gentler. This girl is remarkable in allot of ways. But yes as others have said cool and calm Is fitting.
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^^bbm

Perhaps the difference seen in the video was that it was actually LL's third arrest. She'd previously been arrested twice before for this case and released. Guess the third time was a charm where charges were filed and it moved on to prosecution. JMO
 
LadyL said:
In which case they should've marched proudly down to the police station, safe in.the knowledge that losing a job is worth it when lives are at stake, innocent, vulnerable baby's lives ...
Click to expand...
Dr Jayaram did say in retrospect ‘I wish we had bypassed [the managers] and gone straight to the police. We by no means were playing judge and jury at any point but the association [with Letby] was becoming clearer and clearer.’ :(
 
May72031 said:
Thanks for this detailed breakdown, @cottonweaver
GUILTY - UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33
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No problem. It doesn't include everything.
But seeing as we're all speculating around timeliness and death prevention re the consultants not calling cops with their hunch by June 22nd 2015 it does beg the question as to what could have happened.

All the babies murdered by LL by 22nd June were killed via air embolism alone.
Would there have been enough collectable evidence at that point for the CPS to charge and then later for Pros secure a jury's conviction, beyond a reasonable doubt?
 
iamshadow21 said:
Her conviction that something was badly wrong at COCH and her actions to sleuth it herself left me in awe. I had no idea until her statement that any of the parents had tried to investigate their child's death or attempted murder themselves. Unbeknownst to her, she and the police were investigating in parallel. It must have been excruciating for them that they couldn't tell her until the point of arrest that they were there, that they were going to take that burden from her and take it all the way to criminal court.

MOO
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I’ve not read all of the parents statements in length as I’ve just found it so brutally upsetting, so harrowing (as the trial was awful enough to read what she did)- I couldn’t bring myself to fully read them. This report of baby Ds mother I read about a quarter of it and I’m just so shocked, absolutely appalled that even she was taking legal representation with a solicitor and speaking to management herself- and yet they STILL obstructed it. Not only was a parent as early as baby D raising her concerns- they continued to ignore this well beyond and after until baby Q!! How could they possibly believe that was normal, all these incidents and death spikes, and then the association doctors made with LL and yet management continually obstructed the truth AND protected her instead of their patients.

Not only that, when the police WERE involved; it has been reported that management then blocked access to medical files and refused to hand their over. This has got to be one of the biggest scandals in UK history- nothing to do with funding or staff shortages. So appalling what they did.

I couldn’t read anymore of this article- But these families deserve answers and should be given the respect and acknowledgment they deserve.
 
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