GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

[cottonweaver]

More money won't help. There are fundamental flaws in the system.

This is only one former employee's perspective ( ex consultant) but it's an interesting listen imo, on cover-up culture and pressure on anyone who wants to whistle-blow

Alternatively, here's a paediatric nurse's take on trying to whistle-blow and how that intersects with the entrenched crises with staffing including midwifery

 

[esther43]

This is only one former employee's perspective ( ex consultant) but it's an interesting listen imo, on cover-up culture and pressure on anyone who wants to whistle-blow

Alternatively, here's a paediatric nurse's take on trying to whistle-blow and how that intersects with the entrenched crises with staffing including midwifery

Interesting clips!

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

Medics 'hand file to cops' after 'unexpected deaths of child' - report

Reported medic-led probe into three deaths but Birmingham Women's and Children's NHS Foundation Trust said on Sunday, August 27, that the police investigation concerned one death

www.birminghammail.co.uk

 

[Friday Fan]

My first time responding and I actually didn't follow this case. I'll explain:
We had a baby-killer nurse here in our town in the early 1980's and I just didn't want to read about another one.


I just recently read about Lucy and she is so different than our killer here.


Our killer was older and was what they called an LVN (Licensed Vocational Nurse). I most states they are known as LPNs (Practical Nurse). The training programs are one year and through a vocational school, not college.

Genene was very a efficient worker and could "start an IV on a fly".


She was fired from her first job for talking back to doctors. (That's a red flag. If you question an order, you verify with the doctor, then contact the charge nurse and keep going up the chain. I've been on receiving end of bad orders. Usually the orders were the wrong dosage etc. In the end, the charge nurse would get involved and sometimes the doctor would get disciplined by the hospital)

Genene was jealous of the Registered Nurses and wanted to be a charge nurse. But laws don't allow that.

For some reason, instead of going back to school and pursuing a degree, she eventually resorted to killing. At first, it started out as coding and she would run the code and revive the child. She was then seen as a "hero". Then children started dying. It became a thrill for her. She played with life and death. I know people that knew Genene and they described her has abrasive and bossy.


Lucy is so young. She appeared to have so much more going for her than Genene did.
Obviously, Lucy is not normal and I don't have the time to go through and analyze.

Genene Jones | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

Genene Anne Jones is a former pediatric nurse who killed somewhere between 11 and 46 infants and children in her care. She used injections of chemicals later succinylcholine to induce medical crises in her patients, with the intention of reviving them afterward in order to receive praise and...

murderpedia.org

The Death Shift

The three-to-eleven evening shift, Bexar County Hospital, San Antonio: nurse Genene Jones was on duty in the pediatric intensive care unit, and for months babies kept having mysterious—sometimes fatal—emergencies. Why?

www.texasmonthly.com

Author comes full circle in story of San Antonio's notorious baby killer

Nurse Genene Jones came disturbingly close to winning her freedom in 2018, a newly revised book on the convicted baby killer recounts.

sanantonioreport.org

 

[Sweeper2000]

Medics 'hand file to cops' after 'unexpected deaths of child' - report

Reported medic-led probe into three deaths but Birmingham Women's and Children's NHS Foundation Trust said on Sunday, August 27, that the police investigation concerned one death

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Oh dear. Nooooo. That’s very bad.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Funnily enough I heard about this case only yesterday, she hasn’t been named - yet.

 

[kittythehare]

So it can't be totally eliminated, but better staffing would reduce opportunity.

Bettere staffing may never have saved these babies' lives.
Better staffing would do nothing to curb a person who is hellbent on infanticide.
They would always find a way.
We can debate the shortcomings of the NHS and it's equivalent in every country in the world but we're not here to sort health crises.

It's a side issue.
She is already guilty of 7 murders, it's quite possible several more guilty verdicts are forthcoming when the investigation is complete.
Nobody knows why she liked to kill infants.
I really don't think I can stretch even a speculative notion that she did it in protest about conditions.

I'm almost sure that one won't run.

We are post verdict.

She did it.
A jury found her guilty.
Her guilt was not ascribed to less than optimal working conditions.

 

[katydid23]

I thought it might have been an attempt to sabotage/delay/distract from the resus. it apparently happened on the fourth and final resus attempt of Baby P.

Other previous possible attempts at sabotaging or delaying things during resuscitations included:

LL not being able to confirm whether three or four shots of adrenaline had been given during baby O's resus when the doctor asked. ETA -remember a paper towel containing the written details of the resus drugs given for a previous baby (Baby M) was found in LL's home.

The resus drug calculation chart going missing during Baby D's resus, and LL asking the other nurse afterwards how she'd managed to calculate the right dosage without the chart. (The nurse explained how she'd manually calculated it using the baby's weight and years of experience and suggested LL learn to do the same). The chart turned up later.

Baby A's mother being "accidentally" called in the early hours during Baby D's resus, when a nurse was supposed to call the on call consultant. LL said a nurse had accidentally called Baby A's mother but that the nurse wasn't her. Baby D's parents remember LL as the nurse who was holding the phone to the doctor's ear during the resus.

LL being sent to get a camera to take a picture of the unusual mottling rash during Baby B's resus... and by the time she came back with it the rash had gone. Although she did say it court that she had "got it very quickly"

Good list.

I've also wondered if LL was the one who pushed a paper towel down the nursery sink, that backed up the plumbing---forcing one of the nurseries to close down.

If she was upset about which nursery she was being designated, perhaps this was an angry response?

 

[kittythehare]

Funnily enough I heard about this case only yesterday, she hasn’t been named - yet.

May 2022

Birmingham Children's Hospital nurse arrested on suspicion of 'poisoning' child

The 27-year-old has been released by West Midlands Police while investigations continue

www.birminghammail.co.uk

 

[Parker Knoll]

Actually it was last week I think, then I saw it online yesterday again.
Has the world gone completely mad ?

 

[cottonweaver]

Good list.

I've also wondered if LL was the one who pushed a paper towel down the nursery sink, that backed up the plumbing---forcing one of the nurseries to close down.

If she was upset about which nursery she was being designated, perhaps this was an angry response?

and LL still seemed angry by the time she was being interviewed by LE.

'Police asked Ms Letby about a comment from nurse Kathryn Percival-Calderbank. She said Letby expressed that she was unhappy at being put in the outside nurseries. "She said it was boring and she didn't want to feed babies. She wanted to be in the intensive care."

Ms Letby said 'I don’t recall calling my work boring in any capacity'

Chester Standard 27/04/23
It just reads like a very snippy reply to the interrogating officer

 

[d0lphin]

I disapprove of the compensation culture that has grown in this country over recent years.
The NHS is grossly underfunded as it is and substantial compensation claims will only further diminish the ability of Trusts to provide services.
If anything is to be learned from an inquiry , it should be that chronic under funding leads to poor quality of service and unnecessary deaths of all ages..
Needless to say, the government of the day will largely ignore this.

Unfortunately a number of the victims have been left severely disabled and I feel that compensation could enable their parents to provide better for them.
The cutbacks in social care means that what the state provides is limited.

I have no issue with any amount of compensation being paid out to these families.

 

[notsure]

Actually it was last week I think, then I saw it online yesterday again.
Has the world gone completely mad ?

DBM - a bit OTT (my post)

 

[Sweeper2000]

I kind of wanted to put something about the trial in perspective, focusing on the defence case summed up in headlines.

the opening speech by the defence aka mr Myers focused On how the hospital was blaming Lucy letby for failings at the unit.

“Ben Myers KC, told Manchester Crown Court that the Countess of Chester Hospital "failed" in 2015 and 2016 and "blame for absolutely everything" had been "heaped" on Ms Letby.”

“He said said "one way or another", the unit had "failed" and the case against Ms Letby was a "prime opportunity" to "hide" poor outcomes.”

Lucy Letby: Doctors blamed nurse to cover unit's failings, jury told

Blame has been "heaped on" Lucy Letby to cover a hospital's failings, her defence barrister says.

www.bbc.co.uk

he was actually correct. The hospital had absolutely massive failings in many aspects but I don’t think the unit failed massively in the vast majority of its clinical staff. They seemed good. The managers failed in their inability to address the actual problem Which happened to be Lucy letby. Mr Myers didn’t know how right he was.

All the missed chances to stop evil nurse Lucy Letby murdering babies

On up to ten occasions, suspicions were raised or events happened that linked her to the spike in deaths or collapses on the Countess of Chester Hospital's neo-natal unit.

www.dailymail.co.uk

“Nine babies might have been saved or escaped harm had hospital managers and doctors not missed vital opportunities to stop Lucy Letby’s killing spree.
On up to ten occasions, suspicions were raised or events happened that linked her to the spike in deaths or collapses on the Countess of Chester Hospital’s neo-natal unit.”

​

 

[Officer Dibble]

Interesting article.

https://archive.li/2023.08.26-171932/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lucy-letby-trial-motive-why-did-she-kill-gkvmm2gqz

Great share - thank you

 

[Charlot123]

Based on the numbers, she wouldn't have been, but most people with BPD don't hurt others and are just trying to manage their condition as best they can. But we don't even know Letby has BPD. We know she has a diagnosis of PTSD, and that's it.

MOO

These lunches with the head of nursing and hearts... I am usually non-judgmental and accepting of people's sexuality, definitely prone to protect minorities, however... Remembering how I once "occasionally worked", for lack of a better term, at a place where there was a group of very closed, very high-level, very smart men and women whose behavior was specific. To add, they were really bright and in certain ways, admirable. When I found out that another person I knew who was pleasant, outgoing and down-to-earth, was the member of that group through a relationship, I was surprised, but a person who gossiped about it, explained, "she is not what you think she is. Maybe not all of them are, but they are so twisted borderline, one almost has to feign it to get in". I forgot about this talk, it was truly decades ago, till now. I wonder if Lucy was feigning something similar to get close to the group in power? My observation has nothing to do with the legality of the case, people have to answer for not acting on fact-based doctors' concerns, that's all, never for their personal lives. But a relationship could explain the hospital heads being so protective of her. Just an idea about the dynamics of the situation.

 

[Lincoln34]

Bettere staffing may never have saved these babies' lives.
Better staffing would do nothing to curb a person who is hellbent on infanticide.
They would always find a way.
We can debate the shortcomings of the NHS and it's equivalent in every country in the world but we're not here to sort health crises.

It's a side issue.
She is already guilty of 7 murders, it's quite possible several more guilty verdicts are forthcoming when the investigation is complete.
Nobody knows why she liked to kill infants.
I really don't think I can stretch even a speculative notion that she did it in protest about conditions.

I'm almost sure that one won't run.

We are post verdict.

She did it.
A jury found her guilty.
Her guilt was not ascribed to less than optimal working conditions.

And in her evidence - in cross examination - she excluded staffing etc as a potential cause of the collapses. She did herself no favours in giving evidence IMHO even with comfort blankie. I would have been very upset and searching for any cause other than myself - if innocent - or indeed if guilty. IMHO

 

[katydid23]

well LE seem to be operating on the same basis.
IDK if evidence was ever found on whether Allitt had prior victims - prior to the first convicted death

at a tangent....
I do recall from one of the BA documentaries which have been linked to on WS, that diligent clinicians at her hospital found suspicious needle puncture marks under the armpit of a child. ( At least one of the victims. Further tests later confirmed an air embolus. BA was also later injecting under her own breast when she was trying to get out of Holloway prison to Rampton. )

Anyway, it strikes me that this could hint at another reason why LL might have fainted around the needle prick incident. Could she have worried that she'd mistakenly injected herself with an air embolus? ( That she had a pre loaded syringe)

eta
both ' killer nurses' Allitt & Colin Norris were apparently secreting pre-loaded syringes in their uniform pockets, the latter even caught with one on his way into work in the morning

Wow--that would have been an amazing way for her to be caught---if she had accidentally sent some air into her own veins.
But can you do that with just a prick ? I think you need to push the syringe for a bit to get air in.

 

[IDK]

My first time responding and I actually didn't follow this case. I'll explain:
We had a baby-killer nurse here in our town in the early 1980's and I just didn't want to read about another one.


I just recently read about Lucy and she is so different than our killer here.


Our killer was older and was what they called an LVN (Licensed Vocational Nurse). I most states they are known as LPNs (Practical Nurse). The training programs are one year and through a vocational school, not college.

Genene was very a efficient worker and could "start an IV on a fly".


She was fired from her first job for talking back to doctors. (That's a red flag. If you question an order, you verify with the doctor, then contact the charge nurse and keep going up the chain. I've been on receiving end of bad orders. Usually the orders were the wrong dosage etc. In the end, the charge nurse would get involved and sometimes the doctor would get disciplined by the hospital)

Genene was jealous of the Registered Nurses and wanted to be a charge nurse. But laws don't allow that.

For some reason, instead of going back to school and pursuing a degree, she eventually resorted to killing. At first, it started out as coding and she would run the code and revive the child. She was then seen as a "hero". Then children started dying. It became a thrill for her. She played with life and death. I know people that knew Genene and they described her has abrasive and bossy.


Lucy is so young. She appeared to have so much more going for her than Genene did.
Obviously, Lucy is not normal and I don't have the time to go through and analyze.

Genene Jones | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

Genene Anne Jones is a former pediatric nurse who killed somewhere between 11 and 46 infants and children in her care. She used injections of chemicals later succinylcholine to induce medical crises in her patients, with the intention of reviving them afterward in order to receive praise and...

murderpedia.org

The Death Shift

The three-to-eleven evening shift, Bexar County Hospital, San Antonio: nurse Genene Jones was on duty in the pediatric intensive care unit, and for months babies kept having mysterious—sometimes fatal—emergencies. Why?

www.texasmonthly.com

Author comes full circle in story of San Antonio's notorious baby killer

Nurse Genene Jones came disturbingly close to winning her freedom in 2018, a newly revised book on the convicted baby killer recounts.

sanantonioreport.org

Thank you for posting. So many horrifying similarities including nursing management defending her and that no one listened to the physicians’ concerns. Adding in that the hospitals shredded 9000 lbs of records so no further cases could be investigated!! Will try to watch one of the documentaries.

 

[katydid23]

If anyone wants to hear a serial killer describe how he managed to appear normal on the outside while committing atrocious murders, listen to Edmund Kemper.

Same with Joel Rifkin. Just saw a docu on him last night. No one could believe it when he was arrested. He seemed so normal and his friends and family were shocked.