GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

[cottonweaver]

And also the fact that she wrote about her deceased pet in her ramblings, on the same note that included the names of dead babies.


A further note is shown to the court, featuring a lot of names.

One of the names is 'Whiskey', the name of Letby's former pet dog.

Mr Myers: "Why are you writing these names over and over again?"

Letby: "Because they are important people to me and they were on my mind. At the time I had a limited support network."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins - Chester Standard Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

re your link
Hadn't noticed this before:
'She says she has been diagnosed, in prison by a psychologist, with PTSD.'

I'd imagined she got the diagnosis from her GP pre final arrest. Nope
She also claims that it was the 3 arrests that were the root of her PTSD ( nothing else)

Looking through the list of symptoms ( link) almost every one of these could be argued would be expected stress consequences if
- you have committed so many heinous murders and
- have been found out and
- are awaiting conviction and risk losing everything you ever held dear and
- have spent time in various scary prisons hoping no inmate knows of your name and
- you're hoping for a NG verdict but risk becoming dubbed ' UK's worst child SKiller' etc etc

PTSD: Symptoms and Diagnosis

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) causes symptoms such as avoidance, changes in mood, and intrusive thoughts. Learn about how PTSD symptoms are diagnosed.

www.verywellmind.com

Trauma or logically yes it's stressful but you've not done two tours in Iraq
Also see link, how does she fit criteria 1? Is the psych ticking the box to incl her own victims?

Butcher of Birmingham ( Surgeon Ian Paterson) who lied that his patients had cancer so that he could butcher hundreds of women - and even a man- Judge's sentencing remarks there were
' adjustment disorder' - I just went & checked

Def for adjustment disorder
'A short term condition arising due to difficulty in managing the stressful life change'
( Natural consequence of Paterson's own actions , no biggie,here's your meds.)

ETA
'Mr Myers asks Letby about her being arrested for the first time.
Letby says this was nothing like she had ever experienced before.
Wiping away tears, Letby says there was a knocking on the door at 6am from police, at her Westbourne Road, Chester home.
At the time, her father was with her. They had "no idea at all" the police were coming that day.'

 

[esther43]

At the time, her father was with her. They had "no idea at all" the police were coming that day.'

This!

 

[cottonweaver]

This!

I agree it's true, they didn't see that coming but the way it's worded it's as if they assumed, in the event of an arrest, they'd get a courtesy pre-call from Police to tell them they're coming ' that day'

Everything's a grievance for entitled LL. I bet her grievance complaint was stacked to the hilt, page after page

 

[Charlot123]

I had a friend who adored furry animals but could not stand human babies. Not saying she would harm them, but she really found them repulsive. When I had a baby, she wouldn't even hold him.

Let us look at the behavior of species close to us, such as cats, wolves, apes. There are two options of dealing with newborn babies, "recognize them" as own and raise, or to push them away.

And the "recognition factor", consisting of the smell, taste, cry or whatnot, could be broken in the new mom. On the other hand, cross-recognition of the babies of own or other species happens, too. This is why i have a milk brother. We read about it all the time.

So, projecting onto humans, in women who don't like babies, the recognition factor is not there. But, your friend would usually avoid the babies, right?

In the animal kingdom or prehistoric society, non-recognition could lead to withoulding care or breast-feeding and demise of the babies. In our society, it is equal to bypassing an abandoned baby. But it is not murder.

In NICU, it would be similar to a lazy a$$ nurse who does bare minimum, is uninvolved and there only for the money. Bad nurse, not a murderer. Lucy, though, was "attacking" babies, according to court documents. This is an extra arm.

Maybe the best comparison us Aileen Wuornos?

Not quite. IMHO.
Aileen Wuornos had very likely bipolar disorder (one first degree relative and big ?? about a couple of others) and PTSD. The level of her disproportionate violence indicates that she might have had some unusual biological combinations (two "warrior genes", a rare thing in a woman, come to mind, but only because I don't know of any other contributors). Sick, angry, but attacking adult men. Not stealthily, in most cases.

 

[Parker Knoll]

AW from recollection had been severely abused from childhood had she not ?
Then it continued into her adulthood.

 

[Dotta]

Everything's a grievance for entitled LL. I bet her grievance complaint was stacked to the hilt, page after page

I bet she will have a lot of reasons for grievances in her new accommodation.

Will she demand letters of apology?

Oh dear!

JMO

 

[FabianD87]

Hi all.

I feel like I need to clear up a bit of misinformation that has been posted as fact in the mainstream media over the past few weeks.

Lucy Letby’s parents, John and Susan, do not ‘run a radiator business’ in Telford/Bridgnorth. That business on Companies House refers to a different family entirely. It was set up by Michael and Valerie Letby in 1982 (and they were still living together in Bridgnorth in the 2003 electoral register). The ‘Susan’ who is listed as company director is actually their daughter-in-law who was born in 1970. They have nothing to do with the Hereford Letbys, unless they’re a distant relation.

I’ve seen forums go wild on Letby family history and the supposed moral choices and outreach of a company that doesn’t actually concern her or her family. Let’s keep the focus on Letby and her crimes, as people have been libeled for far less!

 

[marynnu]

This is why i have a milk brother.

I have to ask. What does this mean??

 

[Lincoln34]

Let us look at the behavior of species close to us, such as cats, wolves, apes. There are two options of dealing with newborn babies, "recognize them" as own and raise, or to push them away.

And the "recognition factor", consisting of the smell, taste, cry or whatnot, could be broken in the new mom. On the other hand, cross-recognition of the babies of own or other species happens, too. This is why i have a milk brother. We read about it all the time.

So, projecting onto humans, in women who don't like babies, the recognition factor is not there. But, your friend would usually avoid the babies, right?

In the animal kingdom or prehistoric society, non-recognition could lead to withoulding care or breast-feeding and demise of the babies. In our society, it is equal to bypassing an abandoned baby. But it is not murder.

In NICU, it would be similar to a lazy a$$ nurse who does bare minimum, is uninvolved and there only for the money. Bad nurse, not a murderer. Lucy, though, was "attacking" babies, according to court documents. This is an extra arm.



Not quite. IMHO.
Aileen Wuornos had very likely bipolar disorder (one first degree relative and big ?? about a couple of others) and PTSD. The level of her disproportionate violence indicates that she might have had some unusual biological combinations (two "warrior genes", a rare thing in a woman, come to mind, but only because I don't know of any other contributors). Sick, angry, but attacking adult men. Not stealthily, in most cases.

When a duty of care is present a breach of that care is still a crime but is charged as gross negligence manslaughter if non intentional such as the renowned case of R v Bawa Garba.

 

[Sweeper2000]

The lead investigator said he thought that LL note was meant to be found by them.

Because she knew she was under investigation by the police and her colleagues had been interviewed. She knew they would come knocking at some point.

Interesting to think about, very reckless, but also the note wasn't clear cut, many people thought it was the note of a distressed person putting their thoughts out etc, i remember the convos here. Maybe LL thought she could get sympathy from the note.

Did she leave it on purpose?

It’s remarkable to think of really, in my own opinion I have not seen much of an effort to conceal her actions if guilty. This is excepting the falsified med notes. I’m wondering if anyone could tell me exactly how many times it was alleged that she did ? because at the end it was allot more times than the opening gave note of.

But actually in terms of damning evidence allot of it seemed to come from her home. Allot of impoctant evidence was the confession note and the diary with stand out notes on relevant dates that diary was found in a drawer at her home, along with actual med notes in the Morrison’s bag and other ho sheets. That’s all quite damning when you pair it with the rest Of the evidence. Is there anything about the house search that would make one think she had tried to hide anything outside of work? Considering the killer would know how important these documents and diary with confession are one could very easily think she did indeed place it deliberately. You could also take into account the spree like nature of her crimes which aren’t very subtle IMO. i Wouldn’t define any of her crimes as particularly sly. They are in fact remarkable and stand out Very much like a diary with a confession note in a drawer when one knows to expect the police. she must have known.

 

[Lincoln34]

R

I absolutely think she's been masking for a long time - masking that under the beige boring 'nice' Lucy is a serial killer that enjoys seeing babies' parents grieve, so it's almost obvious she's pretty good at masking, IMO.

I know masking is common with ASD (especially girls with ASD) but that doesn't mean she has that, people can 'mask' with no diagnosis as well, or with other diagnoses.

i am ASD and have been masking since about the age of 5. I just knew I was different and copied neurotypicals to fit in. This was a conscious process . For example I found eye contact hard as a child but trained myself to engage. I still find it hard now and have to decompress after long meetings but you would not know that unless you knew me. I’m female and was only diagnosed this year and I’m in early fifties. LL does not strike me as ASD from what I have seen and read about her.

 

[Dotta]

I have to ask. What does this mean??

Breast fed by the same woman.

 

[iamshadow21]

Breast fed by the same woman.

Our national broadcaster had an article about this practice in Islam the other month, I found it really interesting, as it was new to me.

Muslim 'milk mums' are not common. But for Raidah, it’s created a special bond with her nephew

Five years ago, Raidah approached her brother with an unusual idea. She wanted to bond their families through an ancient practice that carries implications under Islamic law.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Dotta]

Our national broadcaster had an article about this practice in Islam the other month, I found it really interesting, as it was new to me.

"A wet nurse

is a woman who breastfeeds and cares for another's child.
Wet nurses are employed if the mother dies, or if she is unable or chooses not to nurse the child herself.

Wet-nursed children may be known as "milk-siblings", and in some cultures, the families are linked by a special relationship of milk kinship.

Wet-nursing existed in cultures around the world until the invention of reliable formula milk in the 20th century.
The practice has made a small comeback in the 21st century."

Wet nurse - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Sweeper2000]

The lead investigator said he thought that LL note was meant to be found by them.

Because she knew she was under investigation by the police and her colleagues had been interviewed. She knew they would come knocking at some point.

Interesting to think about, very reckless, but also the note wasn't clear cut, many people thought it was the note of a distressed person putting their thoughts out etc, i remember the convos here. Maybe LL thought she could get sympathy from the note.

Did she leave it on purpose?

Do you remember where you heard the lead investigator say this?

 

[notsure]

Let us look at the behavior of species close to us, such as cats, wolves, apes. There are two options of dealing with newborn babies, "recognize them" as own and raise, or to push them away.

And the "recognition factor", consisting of the smell, taste, cry or whatnot, could be broken in the new mom. On the other hand, cross-recognition of the babies of own or other species happens, too. This is why i have a milk brother. We read about it all the time.

So, projecting onto humans, in women who don't like babies, the recognition factor is not there. But, your friend would usually avoid the babies, right?

In the animal kingdom or prehistoric society, non-recognition could lead to withoulding care or breast-feeding and demise of the babies. In our society, it is equal to bypassing an abandoned baby. But it is not murder.

In NICU, it would be similar to a lazy a$$ nurse who does bare minimum, is uninvolved and there only for the money. Bad nurse, not a murderer. Lucy, though, was "attacking" babies, according to court documents. This is an extra arm.



Not quite. IMHO.
Aileen Wuornos had very likely bipolar disorder (one first degree relative and big ?? about a couple of others) and PTSD. The level of her disproportionate violence indicates that she might have had some unusual biological combinations (two "warrior genes", a rare thing in a woman, come to mind, but only because I don't know of any other contributors). Sick, angry, but attacking adult men. Not stealthily, in most cases.

DBM

 

[Parker Knoll]

I “ think “ it was said during one of the latest DM podcasts sweep but not absolutely sure.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Quote from ds Hughes the lead investigator.

“He said: "In my view, she wrote it down and left it for us to find. She knew the police were investigating. She knew her colleagues had been spoken to by the police. She knew at some point we would be speaking to her, so either recklessly or intentionally she wrote it down to be found."”

Lucy Letby’s incriminating piece of evidence she handed police on a plate

In one diary entry, Lucy Letby wrote: "I killed them".

www.express.co.uk

I would certainly agree with him that she knew she could expect the police. That was a long time to be under investigation over baby deaths.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Detective Superintendent Paul Hughes described the arrest to The Mail on Sunday: “She was emotionless, she cooperated, she answered the questions.

“It was surprising – this was someone who had never been involved with police before in her life.

“She’s arrested for eight murders and six attempted murders and brought into custody. At no point did she appear to be struggling with anything. She was quiet, she wasn’t obstructive, she dealt with everything, she was controlled.”

Lucy Letby was ‘expecting us’ says top cop who arrested killer nurse

A police chief has described the moment he arrested a “cold and emotionless” Lucy Letby saying the killer nurse “accepted” that officers would arrive at her door.

www.standard.co.uk

im really engaged with the idea she did Leave that diary there on purpose.

think about it. We See her covering her tracks in the med notes but we don’t see her covering her tracks at home? Why???

I might suggest we see mainly a short term approach to her covering her tracks. think of baby E for example that’s not subtle at all. She’s on her own while doing it but that places her near the baby when things went wrong. It’s not subtle.
if it’s a short term approach it could simply be more of a delaying tactic.” Consequences come later“ kind of thing. She could have been playing a game. just see how long she could get away with it for and then a “bang“ at the end with the diary And confession.

 

[Sweeper2000]

oooooooooh potential motive.

we know she likes attention. Maybe that was the motive for being a nurse initially and then that desire became pathological as time went on. I never took to the munchausen by proxy theory, she didn’t seem to want to be the center of that situation IMO. Not much of a “I’m a hero vibe” more just “me me me” Imo. anyone think she wants the notoriety? Would be one way of getting attention and in her situation was relatively easy and most accessible. I could very easily think a motive for the way the crimes happened was to create impact, impact like that can get allot of attention and notoriety very easily.