GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

[Charlot123]

AW from recollection had been severely abused from childhood had she not ?
Then it continued into her adulthood.

Very badly. Her own child that she had at 14, product of rape, she placed for adoption,
though.

I have to ask. What does this mean??

My mother had enough milk for two, and a neighbour woman with a baby son, none. So mother shared her milk with that woman. BTW, "milk kitchens" for such cases existed in many countries. I think they disappeared during the AIDS.

I believe that such attitude would exist since the dawn of civilization. About animals: in the legend of she-wolf nursing Romulus and Remus, only one thing is interesting, that the Latins accepted it. Meaning, people saw it happening before. And how ofthen do we read in the news about zoo cubs being nursed by another animal?

If the instinct to save the babies is not present in the woman nr 1, usually nr 2 would have it. Attacking babies is a huge behavioral outlier. (I am specifically discussing women, as men were wired for different functions, most of them protecting the tribe as the whole, and their behavior, while self-sacrificing, is of a different type.)

 

[LadyL]

It’s remarkable to think of really, in my own opinion I have not seen much of an effort to conceal her actions if guilty. This is excepting the falsified med notes. I’m wondering if anyone could tell me exactly how many times it was alleged that she did ? because at the end it was allot more times than the opening gave note of.

But actually in terms of damning evidence allot of it seemed to come from her home. Allot of impoctant evidence was the confession note and the diary with stand out notes on relevant dates that diary was found in a drawer at her home, along with actual med notes in the Morrison’s bag and other ho sheets. That’s all quite damning when you pair it with the rest Of the evidence. Is there anything about the house search that would make one think she had tried to hide anything outside of work? Considering the killer would know how important these documents and diary with confession are one could very easily think she did indeed place it deliberately. You could also take into account the spree like nature of her crimes which aren’t very subtle IMO. i Wouldn’t define any of her crimes as particularly sly. They are in fact remarkable and stand out Very much like a diary with a confession note in a drawer when one knows to expect the police. she must have known.

I think she was just so entitled it never occurred to her that the police would want to or be able to search there.

 

[Dotta]

I think she was just so entitled it never occurred to her that the police would want to or be able to search there.

IMO the letter of apology forced on Consultants put her guard down.

 

[iamshadow21]

Lucy Letby: NHS England 'persuaded' trust boss to take new job

The trust's ex-chief executive said he was asked to run a hospital trust despite Letby's murder probe.

www.bbc.com

The BBC understands NHS England also had a representative on the interview panel for the post, and that a reference was provided by the Countess of Chester NHS Trust.

However, the BBC also understands his appointment to lead the London trust was made when Mr Chambers was effectively blocked from getting similar jobs in the north-west of England.

 

[iamshadow21]

Was Lucy Letby an unlikely serial killer? To most people, yes – but not psychologists | Marissa Harrison

Forensic profiles aren’t infallible, but science can help challenge our preconceived notions of what a murderer looks like, says psychologist Marissa Harrison

www.theguardian.com

Some are saying that Letby’s case is a “one-off”, and is thus difficult to process or learn from. While serial murder is rare, to those of us in the field of serial homicide research, the crimes and victims of Letby are less surprising. In many ways, Letby fits the profile for the “typical” female serial killer (FSK) that my team and I compiled for The Journal of Forensic Psychiatry & Psychology in 2015.

 

[marynnu]

I think she was just so entitled it never occurred to her that the police would want to or be able to search there.

It reminds me of murderers who have completely got away with it, then go and tell someone. Like the case below (manslaughter, not murder). It beggars belief that they are so delusional they think the other person won't report it.

Fiancée's tears after helping to jail killer boyfriend for 12 years

Caroline Muirhead, 32, who bravely gathered evidence to help police snare her killer boyfriend Alexander 'Sandy' McKellar, 33, shed tears outside court today as he was jailed for 12 years.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[IDK]

It reminds me of murderers who have completely got away with it, then go and tell someone. Like the case below (manslaughter, not murder). It beggars belief that they are so delusional they think the other person won't report it.

Fiancée's tears after helping to jail killer boyfriend for 12 years

Caroline Muirhead, 32, who bravely gathered evidence to help police snare her killer boyfriend Alexander 'Sandy' McKellar, 33, shed tears outside court today as he was jailed for 12 years.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Wow, this woman is really a hero to turn in her fiancée! So brave to travel to the burial spot with him and leave an empty can to mark the spot.

 

[iamshadow21]

Lucy Letby: it is not being 'beige', 'average' or 'normal' that makes her crimes so hard to understand

Our sense that Letby’s appearance or lifestyle makes her an outlier is based on our own preconceptions – and misconceptions.

theconversation.com

In seeking to understand the crimes of Lucy Letby, the neonatal nurse who murdered seven babies in her care, a fixation about how “ordinary” she appears to be has emerged. At times like this, we seek answers, which perhaps explains the vague sense that understanding this apparent inconsistency can teach us a lesson for the future. But that is a circle that cannot be squared.

 

[esther43]

Imagine having a serial killer 'under your watch' not once but twice in your career. Shocking really that after everything that the Alit Case revealed that this senior leader was not more vigilant in the case of Letby. I wonder if there is any truth to what he's saying, that he was not informed.

"The chairman of the hospital at the time Lucy Letby carried out her killing spree was the chief executive of NHS England at the time of the 'Angel of Death' Beverley Allitt murders."

Lucy Letby's hospital chair was highest CEO of NHS in Beverley Allitt murders

Sir Duncan Nichol retired from the NHS in 2019 - a year after killer nurse Lucy Letby was arrested

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

 

[Sweeper2000]

just a heads up. I’ve pulled two articles both. From high level professionals and both have opposites to say.

Some are saying that Letby’s case is a “one-off”, and is thus difficult to process or learn from. While serial murder is rare, to those of us in the field of serial homicide research, the crimes and victims of Letby are less surprising. In many ways, Letby fits the profile for the “typical” female serial killer (FSK) that my team and I compiled for The Journal of Forensic Psychiatry & Psychology in 2015. By analysing cases in the US, we found that nearly 40% of female serial killers are nurses, nurses’ aides or other healthcare workers.

Was Lucy Letby an unlikely serial killer? To most people, yes – but not psychologists | Marissa Harrison

Forensic profiles aren’t infallible, but science can help challenge our preconceived notions of what a murderer looks like, says psychologist Marissa Harrison

www.theguardian.com

she does fit the typical female serial killer profile.

or

she doesn’t

“Dr Sohom Das, a consultant forensic psychiatrist whose work takes him into prisons and secure hospitals such as Broadmoor, says Letby doesn't fit any "typical" killer profiles. Having assessed several women who have killed babies - usually mothers - he also says most are usually driven by psychotic beliefs.”

Lucy Letby: Inside the mind of a serial killer - the psychology behind healthcare murderers

Former Countess of Chester hospital nurse Lucy Letby joins GP Harold Shipman and nurse Beverley Allitt on the list of UK healthcare professional serial killers. Here, Sky News speaks to psychologists about possible motivations for such horrific crimes.

news.sky.com

im actually thinking the latter seems truer. The first ones units Of measurement aren’t actually specific.

 

[iamshadow21]

just a heads up. I’ve pulled two articles both. From high level professionals and both have opposites to say.

Some are saying that Letby’s case is a “one-off”, and is thus difficult to process or learn from. While serial murder is rare, to those of us in the field of serial homicide research, the crimes and victims of Letby are less surprising. In many ways, Letby fits the profile for the “typical” female serial killer (FSK) that my team and I compiled for The Journal of Forensic Psychiatry & Psychology in 2015. By analysing cases in the US, we found that nearly 40% of female serial killers are nurses, nurses’ aides or other healthcare workers.

Was Lucy Letby an unlikely serial killer? To most people, yes – but not psychologists | Marissa Harrison

Forensic profiles aren’t infallible, but science can help challenge our preconceived notions of what a murderer looks like, says psychologist Marissa Harrison

www.theguardian.com

she does fit the typical female serial killer profile.

or

she doesn’t

“Dr Sohom Das, a consultant forensic psychiatrist whose work takes him into prisons and secure hospitals such as Broadmoor, says Letby doesn't fit any "typical" killer profiles. Having assessed several women who have killed babies - usually mothers - he also says most are usually driven by psychotic beliefs.”

Lucy Letby: Inside the mind of a serial killer - the psychology behind healthcare murderers

Former Countess of Chester hospital nurse Lucy Letby joins GP Harold Shipman and nurse Beverley Allitt on the list of UK healthcare professional serial killers. Here, Sky News speaks to psychologists about possible motivations for such horrific crimes.

news.sky.com

im actually thinking the latter seems truer. The first ones units Of measurement aren’t actually specific.

But the second says that he's assessed several who killed their own babies, possibly while psychotic. That's a completely different situation. Whereas the first has actually studied female serial offenders specifically.

MOO

 

[Sweeper2000]

But the second says that he's assessed several who killed their own babies, possibly while psychotic. That's a completely different situation. Whereas the first has actually studied female serial offenders specifically.

MOO

“. I've also met serial killers and they tend to be antisocial, angry, they tend to have a long criminal history of violence. Again, Lucy Letby doesn't fit that kind of motivation."

Lucy Letby: Inside the mind of a serial killer - the psychology behind healthcare murderers

Former Countess of Chester hospital nurse Lucy Letby joins GP Harold Shipman and nurse Beverley Allitt on the list of UK healthcare professional serial killers. Here, Sky News speaks to psychologists about possible motivations for such horrific crimes.

news.sky.com

 

[cottonweaver]

Lucy Letby: NHS England 'persuaded' trust boss to take new job

The trust's ex-chief executive said he was asked to run a hospital trust despite Letby's murder probe.

www.bbc.com

The BBC understands NHS England also had a representative on the interview panel for the post, and that a reference was provided by the Countess of Chester NHS Trust.

However, the BBC also understands his appointment to lead the London trust was made when Mr Chambers was effectively blocked from getting similar jobs in the north-west of England.

Wow!
No wonder the Govt doesn't seem keen on a full statutory inquiry.

the NHSE bigwig who's alleged to have helped Chambers to get a post in London, was knighted for his services to NHS & once ranked 3rd most influential person. Rot, rewards, revolving door for failing managers goes right to the top. David Sloman - Wikipedia

I'd thought it was odd that Chambers ended up working so far away from his home in Bolton ( North West England) but instead found CEO jobs in Southern England and far south west.

This must also be why the press reported last week that Department of Health quietly tried to change the rules based on recommendations they'd already got from the Kark Review in 2019.
So the consultants stopped him getting new jobs in the region but people from the quango helped him get other jobs elsewhere, link is in older WS post
GUILTY - UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

For anybody outside UK, NHSE is a government quango.
CQC regulator is also one
some have dubbed it ' the world's biggest quango'

‘The World’s Biggest Quango’ | Institute for Government

The creation of NHS England has failed to take the politics out of healthcare provision in England.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk

When Dr Ravi Jayaram tweeted wtte that this is just tip of the iceberg and what will be revealed next will 'shock you to your core', he's put us on notice

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Quote from ds Hughes the lead investigator.

“He said: "In my view, she wrote it down and left it for us to find. She knew the police were investigating. She knew her colleagues had been spoken to by the police. She knew at some point we would be speaking to her, so either recklessly or intentionally she wrote it down to be found."”

Lucy Letby’s incriminating piece of evidence she handed police on a plate

In one diary entry, Lucy Letby wrote: "I killed them".

www.express.co.uk

I would certainly agree with him that she knew she could expect the police. That was a long time to be under investigation over baby deaths.

I think she probably thought she'd be informally questions or brought in for discussions / interviews as opposed to her home being raided and searched. If she's a Narc she probably envisioned the police consulting with her on her opinions and ideas with regard to the usually high death rate.

She probably even had a whole load of prepared suggestions and theories to propose to them.

What I can't understand is that IIRC some of the paperwork was found on the second / third searches. Surely by that time, one would have long since burned anything?

I suppose there's only two ways to view it - she either left it on purpose to be found -or- was so arrogant she never thought it would be located.

 

[Kittybunny]

Was Lucy Letby an unlikely serial killer? To most people, yes – but not psychologists | Marissa Harrison

Forensic profiles aren’t infallible, but science can help challenge our preconceived notions of what a murderer looks like, says psychologist Marissa Harrison

www.theguardian.com

Some are saying that Letby’s case is a “one-off”, and is thus difficult to process or learn from. While serial murder is rare, to those of us in the field of serial homicide research, the crimes and victims of Letby are less surprising. In many ways, Letby fits the profile for the “typical” female serial killer (FSK) that my team and I compiled for The Journal of Forensic Psychiatry & Psychology in 2015.

Great article! Thank you for sharing.

 

[cottonweaver]

Imagine having a serial killer 'under your watch' not once but twice in your career. Shocking really that after everything that the Alit Case revealed that this senior leader was not more vigilant in the case of Letby. I wonder if there is any truth to what he's saying, that he was not informed.

"The chairman of the hospital at the time Lucy Letby carried out her killing spree was the chief executive of NHS England at the time of the 'Angel of Death' Beverley Allitt murders."

Lucy Letby's hospital chair was highest CEO of NHS in Beverley Allitt murders

Sir Duncan Nichol retired from the NHS in 2019 - a year after killer nurse Lucy Letby was arrested

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

has the reporter been reading old WS tweets?

 

[cottonweaver]

Quote from ds Hughes the lead investigator.

“He said: "In my view, she wrote it down and left it for us to find. She knew the police were investigating. She knew her colleagues had been spoken to by the police. She knew at some point we would be speaking to her, so either recklessly or intentionally she wrote it down to be found."”

Lucy Letby’s incriminating piece of evidence she handed police on a plate

In one diary entry, Lucy Letby wrote: "I killed them".

www.express.co.uk

I would certainly agree with him that she knew she could expect the police. That was a long time to be under investigation over baby deaths.

In that old link I posted the other day, it can also be seen that she was doing her compulsive note-writing rants while she was in the office - presumably with other staff around - at the Patient Safety Dept. ( If another staff member had seen that note, in a normal organisation, they'd probably see that as a sign that she wasn't fit for work)

Link gives a little bit of detail of what was found on the back of that Dept's annual leave proforma inside a blue folder during LE's office search.
Maybe she's more reckless and less of the devious, scrupulous master-criminal than we've been led to believe? Makes me wonder, but I don't know the answer

Lucy Letby: What police found at her Chester home at 2018 arrest

Crime scene investigators' photos taken inside serial killer Lucy Letby's Chester home were shown to the jury during the trial.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

ETA
also wondering why she wasn't tempted to go off sick once she was in that patient safety dept. I am not clear on the timeline of her CoC work between her secondment in 2016 and first arrest in 2018

scary facts from link I just read but too late to edit so pasting it here instead:
'The NHS across the UK as a whole is already one of the world’s largest employers with about 1.5 million personnel. It has the fifth biggest workforce after the US Department of Defense (2.9 million), the People’s Liberation Army in China (2.3 million), the US supermarket group Walmart (2.2 million) and the McDonald’s fast-food chain (1.9 million).'
The new workforce expansion plan would mean that 1 in 11 of every employed person in UK was employed by NHS by next decade.
"Houston, we have a problem....."

 

[iamshadow21]

“. I've also met serial killers and they tend to be antisocial, angry, they tend to have a long criminal history of violence. Again, Lucy Letby doesn't fit that kind of motivation."

Lucy Letby: Inside the mind of a serial killer - the psychology behind healthcare murderers

Former Countess of Chester hospital nurse Lucy Letby joins GP Harold Shipman and nurse Beverley Allitt on the list of UK healthcare professional serial killers. Here, Sky News speaks to psychologists about possible motivations for such horrific crimes.

news.sky.com

That's leaving out the ones who smoothly mask their double life like Letby did and only focusing on the most outwardly dysfuctional. Rex Heuermann, Dennis Rader, Gary Ridgway, Ted Bundy (prior to his capture in Utah), and, I should add, most health care serial killers, tended to live pretty regular lives on the exterior. Charles Cullen had exhibited some disturbing behaviour in his early life, but didn't have a criminal record before his arrest, and he may have killed as many as four hundred people during his time as a nurse. The fact is, many serial killers don't come with a convenient warning sign in the form of a lengthy criminal record. Often, the only people who see that dark side of them are the victims. This is very common when talking about those who attack victims in a health care setting. They get away with it because they pass for normal rather than having fifteen priors for GBH and stalking. They're a nurse, it's the perfect cover for murder.

MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

IMO the letter of apology forced on Consultants put her guard down.

Good point.

 

[cottonweaver]

re that new link that IAmShadow posted about Chambers being given a helping hand by senior officiial in NHS England & circling back to the human and financial costs of all types of negligence. Lucy Letby: NHS England 'persuaded' trust boss to take new job

65% is striking and that's without Letby's crimes

Letby compensation ( rightly deserved by victims) estimates:
'The NHS could well end up with paying total compensation of £40m to £60m. That figure would be higher if the police identify other suspicious events.

The NHS made more than £1bn in clinical negligence payments relating to maternity in 2022-23, out of a total of £2.6bn. In the same year, maternity claims amounted to £45bn (65%) of the clinical negligence provision, which accounts for claims already received and expected relating to incidents up to and including 31 March but not yet settled.'

Lucy Letby: NHS could face record compensation bill of more than £60m

Parents whose babies have disabilities caused by nurse’s attacks could each receive more than £10m, say experts

www.theguardian.com