UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #34

[Marantz4250b]

I think it is hers as it also appears in this photoView attachment 447607

That's definitely her car. Was parked on the neighbours drive when she was first arrested before the police put the tent up and that was the one she walked past on her drive when they were taking her to the police car.

 

[Marantz4250b]

That’s not really gaslighting, that’s flat out denial. I have personally experienced people of that type before. I was convinced it was actually closer to delusion, it’s genuinely like their ego won’t allow them to fully understand that yes “I am responsible”. It’s more “that makes me feel bad so it CANT be true”. It’s an ego defence and sometimes unconscious, is actually unnerving to deal with.

Yes, that's kind of what I was getting at but didn't really express it well enough.

 

[Dotta]

"Now, it's reported Letby is set to attempt to appeal her conviction on September 25.

This is also the date at Manchester Crown Court when the CPS will announce whether or not they will go for a retrial on the counts that the jury failed to reach a verdict on."

Lucy Letby has date set to appeal whole-life murder conviction

Lucy Letby is expected to appeal her conviction 'within days'

www-birminghammail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Parker Knoll]

Do you think that she appreciates that she's lying or is it that she's just so completely deluded that she on some level believes what comes out of her mouth.

I don't know if this is even a thing but, as regards "gaslighting", is she to some extent gaslighting herself into believing she's done absolutely nothing wrong? Not sure if that even makes sense now I've written it, quite honestly.

She must do surely ? Someone who had years to think up a credible answer for why she came to have 257 handover sheets at home simply came up with “ I collect paper “ totally baffles me.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That’s not really gaslighting, that’s flat out denial. I have personally experienced people of that type before. I was convinced it was actually closer to delusion, it’s genuinely like their ego won’t allow them to fully understand that yes “I am responsible”. It’s more “that makes me feel bad so it CANT be true”. It’s an ego defence and sometimes unconscious, is actually unnerving to deal with.

I've known two people like this. Neither of them were perpetrating horrendous crimes - one was a compulsive liar and played everyone off against each other - but you couldn't discuss it with him, he'd just go blank and say 'I would never do that' in flat out denial no matter how strong the evidence and facts - they ended up taking their own life (something they had attempted several times in the past). The other person, it's not them perpetrating serious crimes, it's their partner. Literally can't / won't acknowledge it and offers up opposing stories, also no matter how strong and obvious and 'out there' the evidence.

In both cases, I used to feel so annoyed with these people, thinking they must really take us for fools. But after many years I realised they're not, nobody's fooled, it's just they themselves can't digest or process the truth. It's a psychological distortion, probably to protect from shame.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

She must do surely ? Someone who had years to think up a credible answer for why she came to have 257 handover sheets at home simply came up with “ I collect paper “ totally baffles me.

For me 'I collect paper' was not even an attempt at explanation. It was just a statement of fact. More distortion - I have all this paper because it came home with me because I collect it. Well, hmmm... obviously seems so... but the court was more asking 'why?'! For what purpose, what reason, how did it happen?

More psychological distortion.

An average person would say 'at the end of my shifts, I'd often have pieces of paper that needed filing or shredding but I was tired and just wanted to go straight home, so I'd bung it in my bag and leave.'

 

[Sweeper2000]

Just reading through these last few posts I may or may not have spotted something. she said she “accumulates paper” ok Lucy, where are these other bits of paper? I might take that sentence more seriously if you could provide examples of innocuous bits of paper? So perhaps some order forms for equipment, any? Maybe some delivery forms for things arriving at the unit, any? Maybe just maybe you could tell us of any paper you accumulated that wasn’t important at all? Of all the papers you could collect in a NNU the vast majority of which are not clinically important why did you accumulate paper that always seems to refer to babies? Did she even have any papers that refer to equipment instructions or anything like that? Like totally unimportant stuff, the type that one actually might innocuously take home? The papers she did collect seem exclusive to me.

Eta. does anyone remember the prosecution emphasising how allot of her actions suggest excessive involvement or an unhealthy level of interest?

cant Remember it myself.

 

[Marantz4250b]

"Now, it's reported Letby is set to attempt to appeal her conviction on September 25.

This is also the date at Manchester Crown Court when the CPS will announce whether or not they will go for a retrial on the counts that the jury failed to reach a verdict on."

Lucy Letby has date set to appeal whole-life murder conviction

Lucy Letby is expected to appeal her conviction 'within days'

www-birminghammail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

I think that this case has quite some way to run yet!

At least a furlong or two left before the winning post.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Just reading through these last few posts I may or may not have spotted something. she said she “accumulates paper” ok Lucy, where are these other bits of paper? I might take that sentence more seriously if you could provide examples of innocuous bits of paper? So perhaps some order forms for equipment, any? Maybe some delivery forms for things arriving at the unit, any? Maybe just maybe you could tell us of any paper you accumulated that wasn’t important at all? Of all the papers you could collect in a NNU the vast majority of which are not clinically important why did you accumulate paper that always seems to refer to babies? Did she even have any papers that refer to equipment instructions or anything like that? Like totally unimportant stuff, the type that one actually might innocuously take home? The papers she did collect seem exclusive to me.

Eta. does anyone remember the prosecution emphasising how allot of her actions suggest excessive involvement or an unhealthy level of interest?

cant Remember it myself.

I think that her personality is completely and utterly intertwined with her job. I think her profession is who and what she is, absolutely and entirely, and that her whole life is based around it.

We know very little of her back-story but it seems that she's had the "caring" element to her personality from a very young age. I use that word in quote marks because it was either a mask from the outset or became massively messed up at some point. Then again, perhaps she had the genuine belief that she was being caring in doing what she's been convicted of?

If she really is that obsessively and irrationally connected to her profession then it doesn't surprise me that she kept the hand-over sheets, quite honestly. Nor does it surprise me that she didn't keep things like stuff related to equipment or supplies orders, drug requisitions, etc. I think her deep affinity with her job is related to the human contact nature of it rather than the strict technical or operational nature of things.

A while back the subject of Autism was mentioned but that got deleted for sub-judice reasons as the trial was still ongoing. I am certainly no expert but there must be some type of neuro divergency going on here, surely?

Just my random wonderings so just my opinion, obviously.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think that her personality is completely and utterly intertwined with her job. I think her profession is who and what she is, absolutely and entirely, and that her whole life is based around it.

We know very little of her back-story but it seems that she's had the "caring" element to her personality from a very young age. I use that word in quote marks because it was either a mask from the outset or became massively messed up at some point. Then again, perhaps she had the genuine belief that she was being caring in doing what she's been convicted of?

If she really is that obsessively and irrationally connected to her profession then it doesn't surprise me that she kept the hand-over sheets, quite honestly. Nor does it surprise me that she didn't keep things like stuff related to equipment or supplies orders, drug requisitions, etc. I think her deep affinity with her job is related to the human contact nature of it rather than the strict technical or operational nature of things.

A while back the subject of Autism was mentioned but that got deleted for sub-judice reasons as the trial was still ongoing. I am certainly no expert but there must be some type of neuro divergency going on here, surely?

Just my random wonderings so just my opinion, obviously.

it was I agree a lifelong ambition to be a nurse and I think a nnu nurse so it would definitely seem so. It’s a big question isn’t it though, why? Loaded with all sorts of possibilities not necessarily nice. Why accomplish the lifelong dream of being one ? Just to smash it into pieces along with hundreds potentially thousands of other people’s life
long dreams? Even when it like these poor babies lives was in its infancy.

i did have the mind that actually her motive was something to do with the whole motherly output. I don’t know why and currently obv can’t prove it. But I do think it’s tied in somehow. Maybe even perceived by her as caring but who to gauge the mind of “the dream killer”?

an apt name I think And terrible it Is.

 

[Dotta]

it was I agree a lifelong ambition to be a nurse and I think a nnu nurse so it would definitely seem so. It’s a big question isn’t it though, why? Loaded with all sorts of possibilities not necessarily nice. Why accomplish the lifelong dream of being one ? Just to smash it into pieces along with hundreds potentially thousands of other people’s life
long dreams?

I guess her "idee fixe" from childhood was about medical matters:
- talking about herself as being a child of difficult birth
- hospital treatments in childhood
- carrying first aid kit to school

Even as an adult and a nurse, calling her mother when she was "injured" by a needle.

Complaining about strange physical and mental symptoms at work
(shivering of hands, etc., insisting to work in a certain room).

JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

it was I agree a lifelong ambition to be a nurse and I think a nnu nurse so it would definitely seem so. It’s a big question isn’t it though, why? Loaded with all sorts of possibilities not necessarily nice. Why accomplish the lifelong dream of being one ? Just to smash it into pieces along with hundreds potentially thousands of other people’s life
long dreams? Even when it like these poor babies lives was in its infancy.

i did have the mind that actually her motive was something to do with the whole motherly output. I don’t know why and currently obv can’t prove it. But I do think it’s tied in somehow. Maybe even perceived by her as caring but who to gauge the mind of “the dream killer”?

an apt name I think And terrible it Is.

I don't think that the "why" of her actions will ever be known. As I've said, I'm no expert in psychological or neurological matters but I'm convinced that whatever is going on with her is extremely rare and unusual and possibly unique.

All of the usual "reasons" will be trotted out and it will be mostly be from people who haven't followed the case, and her specifically, in detail. It'll just be put down to "Munchausen's" or "She's a psycho" but I think that her issues go far, far deeper than that.

 

[ColourPurple]

I think that her personality is completely and utterly intertwined with her job. I think her profession is who and what she is, absolutely and entirely, and that her whole life is based around it.

We know very little of her back-story but it seems that she's had the "caring" element to her personality from a very young age. I use that word in quote marks because it was either a mask from the outset or became massively messed up at some point. Then again, perhaps she had the genuine belief that she was being caring in doing what she's been convicted of?

If she really is that obsessively and irrationally connected to her profession then it doesn't surprise me that she kept the hand-over sheets, quite honestly. Nor does it surprise me that she didn't keep things like stuff related to equipment or supplies orders, drug requisitions, etc. I think her deep affinity with her job is related to the human contact nature of it rather than the strict technical or operational nature of things.

A while back the subject of Autism was mentioned but that got deleted for sub-judice reasons as the trial was still ongoing. I am certainly no expert but there must be some type of neuro divergency going on here, surely?

Just my random wonderings so just my opinion, obviously.

I think it'd be wrong to label her as autistic or neurodivergent when it's far more likely that she was just a common or garden psychopath or similar.

As for her "collecting"... it's not like she was collecting something random like buttons. It's not even really accurate to just say she was "collecting paper". She was only "collecting" paper in the form of confidential medical paperwork related to babies on the NNU... some of whom we know for a fact she killed or tried to kill!

As for having a "deep affinity" with her job... she used her job to murder babies. If she was a male paedophile school teacher who was found with hundreds of confidential records of pupils in his home, going back years, some of whom he was proven to have abused... would you be asking whether he was neurodivergent or had a deep affinity to his job as a teacher?

ETA - I'm not suggesting there was any sexual element to LL's crimes. I'm just comparing two situations where the perpetrators choice of job gave them access to their victims.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I guess her "idee fixe" from childhood was about medical matters:
- talking about her being a child of difficult birth
- hospital treatments in childhood
- carrying first aid kit to school

Even as an adult and a nurse calling her mother when she was "injured" by a needle.

Complaining about strange physical symptoms at work.

JMO

I'm not sure I buy the "difficult birth" story, quite honestly. There may be a tiny grain of truth in it but I don't get the impression that it was ever a big thing. I think it's something which she's massively embellished for attention.

The only thing we know for definite about her medical history is that she has thyroid issues and that she was treated for a needle stick in one of the resuscitations.

I've known quite a few women who speak to their mothers literally everyday so that, of itself, isn't particularly surprising.

 

[Sweeper2000]

And I naively thought it was sold to contribute to her Defence costs.
Oh well...

Nahhh the parents are keeping it for her until she gets out. They sold the house for the legal costs but at least they have the car,

until she gets out.

 

[Dotta]

Nahhh the parents are keeping it for her until she gets out. They sold the house for the legal costs but at least they have the car,

until she gets out.

It can be bought by some crazy collector of murderabilia

 

[Noseyjosie]

I guess her "idee fixe" from childhood was about medical matters:
- talking about herself as being a child of difficult birth
- hospital treatments in childhood
- carrying first aid kit to school

Even as an adult and a nurse, calling her mother when she was "injured" by a needle.

Complaining about strange physical and mental symptoms at work
(shivering of hands, etc., insisting to work in a certain room).

JMO

Also, in the video of her arrest - where the officer says she'll move the front seat forward to give LL more room in the back of the car - LL comments that she's "just had knee surgery"
I know on it's own it doesn't sound important but a narcissistic I unfortunately know very well uses health issues as deflection/for attention all the time

JMO

 

[d0lphin]

DBM

 

[Officer Dibble]

I think that her personality is completely and utterly intertwined with her job. I think her profession is who and what she is, absolutely and entirely, and that her whole life is based around it.

We know very little of her back-story but it seems that she's had the "caring" element to her personality from a very young age. I use that word in quote marks because it was either a mask from the outset or became massively messed up at some point. Then again, perhaps she had the genuine belief that she was being caring in doing what she's been convicted of?

If she really is that obsessively and irrationally connected to her profession then it doesn't surprise me that she kept the hand-over sheets, quite honestly. Nor does it surprise me that she didn't keep things like stuff related to equipment or supplies orders, drug requisitions, etc. I think her deep affinity with her job is related to the human contact nature of it rather than the strict technical or operational nature of things.

A while back the subject of Autism was mentioned but that got deleted for sub-judice reasons as the trial was still ongoing. I am certainly no expert but there must be some type of neuro divergency going on here, surely?

Just my random wonderings so just my opinion, obviously.

BBM. I personally think that might be in the mix too, but I think its a mix of several things that have collided. JMO MOO

 

[cottonweaver]

Also, in the video of her arrest - where the officer says she'll move the front seat forward to give LL more room in the back of the car - LL comments that she's "just had knee surgery"
I know on it's own it doesn't sound important but a narcissistic I unfortunately know very well uses health issues as deflection/for attention all the time

JMO

jumped straight out at me.

plus Dotta's list in that post further up in this page
Plus in 2016 ( diary & texts) inflammation optic nerve & hyperthyroidism

then she must have used her 'PTSD' to get her way in court. ( being seated first, above all of the parents who actually are traumatised)