UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #34

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I think that her personality is completely and utterly intertwined with her job. I think her profession is who and what she is, absolutely and entirely, and that her whole life is based around it.

We know very little of her back-story but it seems that she's had the "caring" element to her personality from a very young age. I use that word in quote marks because it was either a mask from the outset or became massively messed up at some point. Then again, perhaps she had the genuine belief that she was being caring in doing what she's been convicted of?

If she really is that obsessively and irrationally connected to her profession then it doesn't surprise me that she kept the hand-over sheets, quite honestly. Nor does it surprise me that she didn't keep things like stuff related to equipment or supplies orders, drug requisitions, etc. I think her deep affinity with her job is related to the human contact nature of it rather than the strict technical or operational nature of things.

A while back the subject of Autism was mentioned but that got deleted for sub-judice reasons as the trial was still ongoing. I am certainly no expert but there must be some type of neuro divergency going on here, surely?

Just my random wonderings so just my opinion, obviously.
I’m neurodivergent and so are my 3 children. I don’t see ASD here. Admittedly ASD is a huge spectrum but myself, and one of my sons, are extra empathetic . I would think LL more sociopathic tbh. Having ASD does not make you a savant like rain man film. It just means ASD folks react differently in some circs. It does not mean we go around murdering babies for sxxts and giggles ! Xx
 
I’m neurodivergent and so are my 3 children. I don’t see ASD here. Admittedly ASD is a huge spectrum but myself, and one of my sons, are extra empathetic . I would think LL more sociopathic tbh. Having ASD does not make you a savant like rain man film. It just means ASD folks react differently in some circs. It does not mean we go around murdering babies for sxxts and giggles ! Xx
Happy to reply on any ASD queries btw. It’s much misunderstood. Huge spectrum for sure. X
 
I think it'd be wrong to label her as autistic or neurodivergent when it's far more likely that she was just a common or garden psychopath or similar.

As for her "collecting"... it's not like she was collecting something random like buttons. It's not even really accurate to just say she was "collecting paper". She was only "collecting" paper in the form of confidential medical paperwork related to babies on the NNU... some of whom we know for a fact she killed or tried to kill!

As for having a "deep affinity" with her job... she used her job to murder babies. If she was a male paedophile school teacher who was found with hundreds of confidential records of pupils in his home, going back years, some of whom he was proven to have abused... would you be asking whether he was neurodivergent or had a deep affinity to his job as a teacher?

ETA - I'm not suggesting there was any sexual element to LL's crimes. I'm just comparing two situations where the perpetrators choice of job gave them access to their victims.

Also, people with extreme psychopathology in any direction whether it's schizophrenia or Narcissistic Personality Disorder or PTSD or ASD are by default 'neuro divergent'.

That's not to collect everyone neurodiverse and put them in the same category as sociopaths and criminals by any means, just to point out that when someone has a malignant disorder where their psychological defence mechanisms which are probably unconscious cause them to split and fragment into various systems of denial and switch or slide in and out of personas, that is quite literally a form of neurodiversity.
 
Also, people with extreme psychopathology in any direction whether it's schizophrenia or Narcissistic Personality Disorder or PTSD or ASD are by default 'neuro divergent'.

That's not to collect everyone neurodiverse and put them in the same category as sociopaths and criminals by any means, just to point out that when someone has a malignant disorder where their psychological defence mechanisms which are probably unconscious cause them to split and fragment into various systems of denial and switch or slide in and out of personas, that is quite literally a form of neurodiversity.
True in a literal sense but please do not mistake neurodivergent = ASD. ASD is to be neurodivergent but - as you say - not a linear association
 
I don't think that the "why" of her actions will ever be known. As I've said, I'm no expert in psychological or neurological matters but I'm convinced that whatever is going on with her is extremely rare and unusual and possibly unique.

All of the usual "reasons" will be trotted out and it will be mostly be from people who haven't followed the case, and her specifically, in detail. It'll just be put down to "Munchausen's" or "She's a psycho" but I think that her issues go far, far deeper than that.
Do you know what, due to the lack of previous bad character as far as we know I think I will hold on what she will say in the future. I do hope she tells the truth at some point.
 
I don’t think she will ever tell the truth sweep tbh.
I think she will protest her innocence until the day she dies.
It will be appeal after appeal. To admit or confess to her family and what friends she has left now is not an option for her.
 
Child J had had NEC, and had a stoma, which the COCH staff seemed unfamiliar with. This child was once left by staff dirty with faeces, wrapped in a towel, which I think we would all agree is completely unacceptable in any childcare setting, let alone a neonatal ward where things are meant to be kept sterile and hygienic.
ugh, poor thing... one of the most uncomfortable feelings in the world is your stoma being dirty/improperly cared for :( and towels, even clean towels, aren't supposed to touch the stoma itself.

i have a stoma and i can confirm, many doctors and nurses seem to have 0 clue about them. wound care docs & nurses know them like the back of their hand. they really aren't very complex, yet the times i've been hospitalized, staff looks at me as if i have 3 heads when i mention my urostomy. i get a lot of nervous "you take care of that yourself?? right???" it always strikes me as odd. i sometimes wonder if nursing and/or med school just skips stoma care entirely lol.
 
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I had a look for young single person home ownership around 2016 here in UK and it certainly wasn't as common as it might have been previously ( heady days of cheap mortgages prior to the sub prime crisis/ banking crisis recession)

'Only 11 per cent of single people aged between 25 and 24 owned a home in 2019, down from 24 per cent in 1989.' Home ownership among young people has nearly HALVED since the 1980s

LL 's home was at 6 times her salary, so it's no surprise that she'd need parents help, she certainly wasn't taking in a nurse friend lodger/house share as many do.
(Also recall David Holmes psych explaining how a psychopath like LL might view parental support, in general)

related point - if, as Dewi Evans is claiming in that new link, just posted, she's been sabotaging neo-nates for years and getting away with it, her putting down roots there also expresses to me a certain amount a confidence ( Confidence in continuing to get away with it all)

'
'....found concerns with as many as 18....
'They go back to 2012, although most date back to June 2014 – 12 months prior to the first fatality,' he said.
'I found several cases that are highly suspicious where an endotracheal tube – placed in a baby's throat when they need breathing support – had been displaced, had come out.
'These tubes can come out accidentally, but for so many to come out is very, very unusual, especially in what I consider to be a good unit.
'I think the modus operandi evolved over time and I think that prior to air embolus tube displacement was probably something that she did.'...he said he had heard 'anecdotally' concerns about babies with displaced breathing tubes at Liverpool Women's Hospital – cases that the police were looking into. Letby did training placements there in 2012 and 2015.'
 
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I don’t think she will ever tell the truth sweep tbh.
I think she will protest her innocence until the day she dies.
It will be appeal after appeal. To admit or confess to her family and what friends she has left now is not an option for her.
I agree with you but how do you think she'll handle a new trial? ( If she's charged with new cases and she faces the prospect of a new trial)
 
I always take any report which has the word "may" in the title with a huge pinch of salt! They're usually just clickbait because "may" is a nothing word. She also "may" not have murdered any more but that doesn't make a good story.

You can say absolutely anything in a story like this but there will never be any evidence to back it up.
 
I don’t think she will ever tell the truth sweep tbh.
I think she will protest her innocence until the day she dies.
It will be appeal after appeal. To admit or confess to her family and what friends she has left now is not an option for her.
I agree. I don't think she will either. I don't even think she knows why she did any of this, tbh.

Even if she does come out with her reasonings in years to come then how will anyone ever believe her?
 
I don’t think she will ever tell the truth sweep tbh.
I think she will protest her innocence until the day she dies.
It will be appeal after appeal. To admit or confess to her family and what friends she has left now is not an option for her.
She might!
On her deathbed!

It might be the day or night she could brag at last how she managed to pull the wool over so many naive eyes.
And confess to deeds nobody knew about.

It would be a good idea for prison staff to check the notes she is addicted to write.

Give her paper she loves collecting.
And pencils - rubber ones.

JMO
 
"Dr Evans said he was also suspicious that at
least one other baby, whose notes detailed that he had a high insulin level, may have been poisoned by Letby around November 2015.

This was 'in the middle' of the other two insulin cases: Baby F, who was poisoned in August 2015, and Baby L, who had insulin deliberately administered into his drip in April 2016.

Dr Evans described the failure of doctors on the unit to appreciate the significance of blood test results from Baby F as an 'awful tragedy.' 'If they had acted on that it would have stopped all the other deaths and collapses,' he said.

Three more babies died and another four were harmed by Letby over the following ten months, before she was eventually removed from the ward in June 2016."

 
It does not surprise me at all that Dewi Evans has suspicions about other incidents pre-June 2015. I'm sure the police do as well given the scope of their investigation, and of course, here at WS, we fear there was probably an escalation period before her first murder.
 
"Dr Evans said he was also suspicious that at
least one other baby, whose notes detailed that he had a high insulin level, may have been poisoned by Letby around November 2015.

This was 'in the middle' of the other two insulin cases: Baby F, who was poisoned in August 2015, and Baby L, who had insulin deliberately administered into his drip in April 2016.

Dr Evans described the failure of doctors on the unit to appreciate the significance of blood test results from Baby F as an 'awful tragedy.' 'If they had acted on that it would have stopped all the other deaths and collapses,' he said.

Three more babies died and another four were harmed by Letby over the following ten months, before she was eventually removed from the ward in June 2016."

There's also the mother who was a nurse at the hospital whose baby's insulin levels spiked after she made a complaint about LL. He was born March 2016!

A mother has said she fears Lucy Letby spiked her baby's insulin levels in revenge for a complaint she made after the killer nurse told her 'not to get her hopes up', as she was today found guilty of seven murders and six attempted murders.

Lynsey Artell gave birth to her son Asa in March 2016, during nurse Letby's killing spree in the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital, where she was also a nurse...

Ms Artell told Sky News that she was having a conversation with her husband about how their son was getting on when Letby, who had overheard the conversation, came over.

She said while Letby was not Asa's nurse and was covering another person on break, she interrupted their conversation.

The killer nurse told them: 'I don't like parents getting their hopes up because we never know what could happen at this stage.'

Ms Artell said: 'As a parent I absolutely erupted and was like furious. I was like "how dare you take that hope away from me".

'And then as a professional, I'm saying to the matron and to herself that it was competely inappropriate. You can't speak to people like that.'

The next day she returned to her room after going to grab a coffee and was told that her three-day old baby had a huge spike in his insulin levels and was receiving urgent treatment.

She was told that, as an insulin diabetic herself, that could be the reason behind her child's sudden collapse.

 
There's also the mother who was a nurse at the hospital whose baby's insulin levels spiked after she made a complaint about LL. He was born March 2016!

A mother has said she fears Lucy Letby spiked her baby's insulin levels in revenge for a complaint she made after the killer nurse told her 'not to get her hopes up', as she was today found guilty of seven murders and six attempted murders.

Lynsey Artell gave birth to her son Asa in March 2016, during nurse Letby's killing spree in the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital, where she was also a nurse...

Ms Artell told Sky News that she was having a conversation with her husband about how their son was getting on when Letby, who had overheard the conversation, came over.

She said while Letby was not Asa's nurse and was covering another person on break, she interrupted their conversation.

The killer nurse told them: 'I don't like parents getting their hopes up because we never know what could happen at this stage.'

Ms Artell said: 'As a parent I absolutely erupted and was like furious. I was like "how dare you take that hope away from me".

'And then as a professional, I'm saying to the matron and to herself that it was competely inappropriate. You can't speak to people like that.'

The next day she returned to her room after going to grab a coffee and was told that her three-day old baby had a huge spike in his insulin levels and was receiving urgent treatment.

She was told that, as an insulin diabetic herself, that could be the reason behind her child's sudden collapse.


I'd just say that there is no way anyone would know of a spike in insulin levels at the time it happened. I wonder if this mother means a drop in blood sugar.
 
I'd just say that there is no way anyone would know of a spike in insulin levels at the time it happened. I wonder if this mother means a drop in blood sugar.
Hmmn she's a nurse so should know the difference but the part about the insulin isn't a direct quote from her so could be the journalist's interpretation I guess. I think the original source is an interview she gave to Sky news.

@marynnu ETA here's the interview. She does say insulin levels. She says he had an insulin level of somebody who had just taken insulin. See what you make of it...

 
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