UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #34

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"The Lucy Letby confession notes:

Handwriting expert claims chilling evidence reveals she is 'charming', yet 'manipulative'.


Mr Brand said Letby was a fascinating case
because her writing style displayed traits of antisocial behaviour disorder – impulsiveness, dishonesty, rejection of discipline and manipulation – while it also showed she was capable of 'integrating' into society and making friends.

He said the handwriting in Letby's 2016 diary, which was recovered by police, was ordered and appeared to be written by someone in control. But it was in great contrast to the other coloured notes, which were all shown to the jury and appeared to be much more chaotic and disturbed.

'Her writing shows she is a charming person who can do some terrible deeds,' he said.

Mr Brand likened Letby to Jeffrey Dahmer, the US serial killer who murdered and dismembered 17 men over 13 years in Milwaukee, USA.

'He has been described as an
anti-social and I see her like that,' he said.
'She is somebody who can occasionally be very friendly, other times manipulative, secretive and cold.'

Mr Brand highlighted several 'disturbances' in her handwriting style.

'The way she had written HATE, PANIC, FEAR, LOST on the green 'I am evil' note could be viewed as attention seeking, it suggested she wanted to be listened to and not ignored', he said.

While the 'continuous loopings' on the yellow note and repetition of her name or signature on the white A4 note, both showed she was obsessive', Mr Brand said.

'The way her writing does not slant one way or the other – it doesn't lean to the right or the left consistently but has a varying slant – and sometimes 'suddenly' changes direction in the middle of a word, is highly unusual and demonstrates she suffered 'horrific' mood swings and had difficulty fitting into a team', Mr Brand said.

'Mood swings are shown by sudden changes of slant, you go from left slant to right slant,' Mr Brand said.

'This is a clear mood change, you can feel that change of emotion, it is very rapid when it is within a word itself'.

'The trapped feeling of the squares, the anxiety of that, the compulsion of the circles, the fact that the lines overlap, very unclear thinking.
No margin, so you can see this person is invasive, you don't even have to look at the content, from a graphological point of view these things hit you, it says, 'there is trouble here'."

Much more in the article

 
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I wouldn't be surprised if LL has her parents doing research, downloading every HMI report into both prisons.
Or it's just that she was hoping to be put in Rivendell, New Hall with Rose West ;)

( Rose has got a very pretty cell, according to this other link. Sparkles pix? Huddersfield woman tells of life on same prison wing as Rose West

On a serious note, I wouldn't want the extra pressure of being a health care worker on LL's unit. I think she'd be watching out for every deficiency.

Could her refusal also be because solicitor working on her appeal wants her to stay closer to his premises? Travel time
 
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I have signed it Mary … just another 75000 to go before the next stage !
Right - what’s the thoughts on Mondays hearing …. Are we thinking a retrial or not ?
Personally I can’t decide but if I had to say I think they will go again. I hope they do for the families involved as they must feel broken up and they have listed it as a hearing which again is very unusual in itself but hey - it’s her.
IDK, there's a few criteria which as a latecomer to the case, I couldn't say

such as 'the likely reasons for the jury's failure to reach a verdict' ( the other criteria on the CPS list - copied into the BBC link- are easier boxes for me to tick.

Now would be a good time for the DM's podcasters to speculate with some opinions on that criteria , before a decision is made on 25th. If i knew where to send them a question, I would
 
Also, in the video of her arrest - where the officer says she'll move the front seat forward to give LL more room in the back of the car - LL comments that she's "just had knee surgery"
I know on it's own it doesn't sound important but a narcissistic I unfortunately know very well uses health issues as deflection/for attention all the time

JMO

Or maybe she just had knee surgery? And just needed that to be accommodated when she was put into the back of the car?
 
Allow me an unrealistic suggestion -
I think Ian Harvey, Tony Chambers and Co should offer to spend their pay-off cash to buy it, demolish it and plant a tree so that the sight of the house doesn't disturb the peace of any bereaved parents visiting the child cemetery. i appreciate that nobody died there but...
.. it's the former home of the UK's most prolific child killer ...within sight of parents coming to visit childrens' graves

I'm sure that would go down really well with both the current owner of the house and the adjoining neighbour. Leave them alone. Please.

It's a house, a wholly benign one, not one containing Fred and Rosemary West's cellar.
 
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"The Lucy Letby confession notes:

Handwriting expert claims chilling evidence reveals she is 'charming', yet 'manipulative'.


Mr Brand said Letby was a fascinating case
because her writing style displayed traits of antisocial behaviour disorder – impulsiveness, dishonesty, rejection of discipline and manipulation – while it also showed she was capable of 'integrating' into society and making friends.

He said the handwriting in Letby's 2016 diary, which was recovered by police, was ordered and appeared to be written by someone in control. But it was in great contrast to the other coloured notes, which were all shown to the jury and appeared to be much more chaotic and disturbed.

'Her writing shows she is a charming person who can do some terrible deeds,' he said.

Mr Brand likened Letby to Jeffrey Dahmer, the US serial killer who murdered and dismembered 17 men over 13 years in Milwaukee, USA.

'He has been described as an
anti-social and I see her like that,' he said.
'She is somebody who can occasionally be very friendly, other times manipulative, secretive and cold.'

Mr Brand highlighted several 'disturbances' in her handwriting style.

'The way she had written HATE, PANIC, FEAR, LOST on the green 'I am evil' note could be viewed as attention seeking, it suggested she wanted to be listened to and not ignored', he said.

While the 'continuous loopings' on the yellow note and repetition of her name or signature on the white A4 note, both showed she was obsessive', Mr Brand said.

'The way her writing does not slant one way or the other – it doesn't lean to the right or the left consistently but has a varying slant – and sometimes 'suddenly' changes direction in the middle of a word, is highly unusual and demonstrates she suffered 'horrific' mood swings and had difficulty fitting into a team', Mr Brand said.

'Mood swings are shown by sudden changes of slant, you go from left slant to right slant,' Mr Brand said.

'This is a clear mood change, you can feel that change of emotion, it is very rapid when it is within a word itself'.

'The trapped feeling of the squares, the anxiety of that, the compulsion of the circles, the fact that the lines overlap, very unclear thinking.
No margin, so you can see this person is invasive, you don't even have to look at the content, from a graphological point of view these things hit you, it says, 'there is trouble here'."

Much more in the article

This whole handwriting analysis thing strikes me as being very much of a similar nature to lie detectors, ie; pseudoscientific nonsense, quite frankly.

It's also heavily based on the bloomin' obvious - I mean, someone who writes things like HATE and HELP ME in big capitals and uses multiple strokes of the pen for each letter is clearly making some attention seeking point and is obviously in deep mental trauma!

As I mentioned a few days ago - it's the Mail reverting to type after some actually really good reporting during the trial.
 
This whole handwriting analysis thing strikes me as being very much of a similar nature to lie detectors, ie; pseudoscientific nonsense, quite frankly.

It's also heavily based on the bloomin' obvious - I mean, someone who writes things like HATE and HELP ME in big capitals and uses multiple strokes of the pen for each letter is clearly making some attention seeking point and is obviously in deep mental trauma!

As I mentioned a few days ago - it's the Mail reverting to type after some actually really good reporting during the trial.
Hahaha
Seriously, I knew all this about this maniacal murderer even before looking at the notes.
:D
Mood swings, anti social, rage, obsessions - one does not need to look at her writing to realise all this.

JMO
 
Not sure what the hearing is listed for on Monday, possibly for mention with defendant to attend ( or not! ) it’s a strange one as they usually just make the announcement as to if they will go again or they won’t. I guessing they won’t require her attendance as it really doesn’t matter if she’s there or not tbh. I have never heard of a defence team dictating where she goes after sentence as it’s literally nothing to do with them. She definitely will have met with BM either in prison or on a zoom conference.
JMO
 
Re her knee surgery

The only ppl I have ever heard about having such surgery are:
- elderly ppl
- obese ones, as too much weight is detrimental for knees
( my colleague was told off by a doctor to lose weight before such operation)
- ppl who practise sports

There is a looooong queue in our NHS for knee surgery
(Of course, one can have it privately too but it costs a lot).

Usually, the doctors recommed to wait as long as possible before such surgery and try other methods.

JMO
 
Re her knee surgery

The only ppl I have ever heard about having such surgery are:
- elderly ppl
- obese ones, as too much weight is detrimental for knees
( my colleague was told off by a doctor to lose weight before such operation)
- ppl who practise sports

There is a looooong queue in our NHS for knee surgery
(Of course, one can have it privately too but it costs a lot).

Usually, the doctors recommed to wait as long as possible before such surgery and try other methods.

JMO
What about people who do salsa classes?
 
Not sure what the hearing is listed for on Monday, possibly for mention with defendant to attend ( or not! ) it’s a strange one as they usually just make the announcement as to if they will go again or they won’t. I guessing they won’t require her attendance as it really doesn’t matter if she’s there or not tbh. I have never heard of a defence team dictating where she goes after sentence as it’s literally nothing to do with them. She definitely will have met with BM either in prison or on a zoom conference.
JMO
Do you know- or anybody else - whether there'll be court reporting on Monday or will we have to struggle to hear what's being said?
 
Re her knee surgery

The only ppl I have ever heard about having such surgery are:
- elderly ppl
- obese ones, as too much weight is detrimental for knees
( my colleague was told off by a doctor to lose weight before such operation)
- ppl who practise sports

There is a looooong queue in our NHS for knee surgery
(Of course, one can have it privately too but it costs a lot).

Usually, the doctors recommed to wait as long as possible before such surgery and try other methods.

JMO
could she have one of the forms of arthritis which affects younger people?

This consultant orthopaedic surgeon also says the same, explore non surgical treatments first
 
I hadn't realised that HTC had done an episode on LL

While they haven't followed the case, their reactions and John Mathias' comments on LL are worth a listen
 
I shudder to think what a handwriting expert would make of mine! I have 2 different styles, one neat, upright and loopy, the other messy and slightly forward sloping. Plus I have 2 versions of most capitals, and I never know which may pop out. I'm not really sure how this all came about, perhaps it symbolises my split personality, ha ha!
 
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