UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #34

[Dotta]

I'm sure- but not in the UK!

Now, when I think of it, this topic resurfaced TWICE in these threads
Once, I was berated for using the MEDIC word for a doctor,
(I was lectured that it was paramedic).

And then, surprise surprise,
when I used it for a nurse
(I used "medical staff")
I was lectured again that medic is only for a doctor.

Memories, memories

So now, I am careful to call a nurse a healthcare worker

And try not to use the MEDIC word haha
Just - a doctor
or paramedic for ambulance crew.

I hope I am going to have it right at last

I see English native speakers differ in this topic.
Even journalists hehe

And I'm NOT an English native speaker

PS
I recommend the book "MEDICUS"
Ooops!
"The Physician" by Noah Gordon
Amazing reading!!!

 

[ColourPurple]

Sickening 4 words written by Lucy Letby to mum whose baby was left brain damaged

The mum of a girl with cerebral palsy has unearthed a polaroid picture taken by Lucy Letby of her daughter sleeping in a cot, with a feeding tube detached from her nose, dated October 25, 2014

www.mirror.co.uk

Hmm looks like this could be another example of LL staging photographs and using the babies as puppets/props to push some narrative that she's dreamed up in her head. Very reminiscent of her taking a photo of Baby F allegedly rolling over to cuddle Baby E's teddy, after she'd murdered Baby E! It reinforces my belief that she really felt she was the star in some hospital drama, deliberately choosing the most dramatic heartbreaking storylines, with the babies, parents and other hospital staff just playing supporting roles.

Dr Evans has commented on the unsusually high number of incidents involving breathing tubes being dislodged during LL'stime at COCH and Liverpool. Now presumably removing the feeding tube wouldn't cause brain damage or cerebal palsy so I guess they're implying that LL may have messed with this baby's breathing tubes too or caused it in some other way? (as the brain scan at birth was clear).

Some of those handover sheets could well relate to babies where she's deliberately tried to cause brain damage, knowing it may never be picked up till months or years later, and some of the facebook searches of other parents could be her checking if anything has been discovered or diagnosed yet.

 

[Dotta]

Hmm looks like this could be another example of LL staging photographs and using the babies as puppets/props to push some narrative that she's dreamed up in her head. Very reminiscent of her taking a photo of Baby F allegedly rolling over to cuddle Baby E's teddy, after she'd murdered Baby E! It reinforces my belief that she really felt she was the star in some hospital drama, deliberately choosing the most dramatic heartbreaking storylines, with the babies, parents and other hospital staff just playing supporting roles.

Dr Evans has commented on the unsusually high number of incidents involving breathing tubes being dislodged during LL'stime at COCH and Liverpool. Now presumably removing the feeding tube wouldn't cause brain damage or cerebal palsy so I guess they're implying that LL may have messed with this baby's breathing tubes too or caused it in some other way? (as the brain scan at birth was clear).

Some of those handover sheets could well relate to babies where she's deliberately tried to cause brain damage, knowing it may never be picked up till months or years later, and some of the facebook searches of other parents could be her checking if anything has been discovered or diagnosed yet.

And when photos were really required - as in case of taking a picture of unusual and moving skin mottling - she failed to bring a camera quickly enough

 

[cottonweaver]

@Dotta your English is better than a lot of native English speakers who have lived their whole life in England. Don't feel that you have to worry before you type

 

[ColourPurple]

And when photos were really required - as in case of taking a picture of unusual and moving skin mottling - she failed to bring a camera quickly enough

Yeah I still don't know why she didnt just take a pic on her phone, as she was on it so much on shift. Well I guess we DO know why she didn't offer to do that !

 

[cottonweaver]

Dr Evans has commented on the unsusually high number of incidents involving breathing tubes being dislodged during LL'stime at COCH and Liverpool. Now presumably removing the feeding tube wouldn't cause brain damage or cerebal palsy so I guess they're implying that LL may have messed with this baby's breathing tubes too or caused it in some other way? (as the brain scan at birth was clear).

Some of those handover sheets could well relate to babies where she's deliberately tried to cause brain damage, knowing it may never be picked up till months or years later, and some of the facebook searches of other parents could be her checking if anything has been discovered or diagnosed yet.

snipped just for focus

she had involvement in the care of 4000 babies in her entire career - is that right ? ( LE said they were reviewing 4K across the 2 hospitals)
LE must have done a cursory investigation of the 257 at first phase ( before, naturally having to focus on a limited number of cases which yielded most evidence)

do you - or anybody on WS - think she only ever kept 257 or it's just that another batch of sheets were dumped or secreted by her at some point post suspension in 2016?
( I know that Johnson said that some of the 257 originated as far back as her training period)

 

[Dotta]

Yeah I still don't know why she didnt just take a pic on her phone, as she was on it so much on shift. Well I guess we DO know why she didn't offer to do that !

She is soooo cunning that my blood runs cold when I read about her

I guess, the public knows only fraction of what is really wrong with her.

 

[cottonweaver]

She is soooo cunning that my blood runs cold when I read about her

I guess, the public knows only fraction of what is really wrong with her.

this observation by the former colleague- nurse in yesterday's ITV link also stands out for me

'....there was a camera looking at people coming into the ward, so she was obviously watching."

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-09-22/killer-nurse-lucy-letby-could-not-wait-to-tell-others-about-babys-death

 

[ColourPurple]

snipped just for focus

she had involvement in the care of 4000 babies in her entire career - is that right ? ( LE said they were reviewing 4K across the 2 hospitals)
LE must have done a cursory investigation of the 257 at first phase ( before, naturally having to focus on a limited number of cases which yielded most evidence)

do you - or anybody on WS - think she only ever kept 257 or it's just that another batch of sheets were dumped or secreted by her at some point post suspension in 2016?
( I know that Johnson said that some of the 257 originated as far back as her training period)

My personal feeling is that she probably kept something more incriminating than handover sheets as trophies (eg. polaroids) and either moved or disposed of those as soon as she heard police were getting involved.

 

[marynnu]

snipped just for focus

she had involvement in the care of 4000 babies in her entire career - is that right ? ( LE said they were reviewing 4K across the 2 hospitals)
LE must have done a cursory investigation of the 257 at first phase ( before, naturally having to focus on a limited number of cases which yielded most evidence)

do you - or anybody on WS - think she only ever kept 257 or it's just that another batch of sheets were dumped or secreted by her at some point post suspension in 2016?
( I know that Johnson said that some of the 257 originated as far back as her training period)

The 4K number is the total admissions at Liverpool & CoC over the 4-year period. LL will only have crossed paths with a fraction of these.

 

[marynnu]

this observation by the former colleague- nurse in yesterday's ITV link also stands out for me

'....there was a camera looking at people coming into the ward, so she was obviously watching."

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-09-22/killer-nurse-lucy-letby-could-not-wait-to-tell-others-about-babys-death

I'm quite surprised a nurse has spoken to the press. She's braver than me!

 

[Kemug]

My personal feeling is that she probably kept something more incriminating than handover sheets as trophies (eg. polaroids) and either moved or disposed of those as soon as she heard police were getting involved.

For some reason when I read this sentence I wondered what other trophies you could take from a baby - hair? nail clippings? I wouldn't put much past her.

 

[ColourPurple]

For some reason when I read this sentence I wondered what other trophies you could take from a baby - hair? nail clippings? I wouldn't put much past her.

The same things that she included in the memory boxes for parents... photos, hand and foot prints, a lock of hair. This what Baby E+F's mother was given by LL:

The mother told the court she was 'totally surprised' when nurse Letby gave her and her husband a box containing memories of their baby, including a lock of his hair and his hand a footprints, as well as photos of the baby taken without their consent.

Lucy Letby is 'a hateful human being' say parents of twin victims

The parents of twin brothers who were victims of Lucy Letby have branded the nurse a 'hateful human being' who has 'taken everything from us'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[cottonweaver]

The 4K number is the total admissions at Liverpool & CoC over the 4-year period. LL will only have crossed paths with a fraction of these.

thanks for answering my query on the 4K for the review

yes Det Supt Paul Hughes said ' “From 2012 through to 2016, there were more than 4,000 admissions of babies into the neo-natal units of both the Countess of Chester hospital and the Liverpool women’s hospital for us to work through.'

helps me eliminate any idea that she'd only encountered 257
( LWHospital NNU is 44 cots and iirc she only ever did placements there)

 

[Marantz4250b]

snipped just for focus

she had involvement in the care of 4000 babies in her entire career - is that right ? ( LE said they were reviewing 4K across the 2 hospitals)
LE must have done a cursory investigation of the 257 at first phase ( before, naturally having to focus on a limited number of cases which yielded most evidence)

do you - or anybody on WS - think she only ever kept 257 or it's just that another batch of sheets were dumped or secreted by her at some point post suspension in 2016?
( I know that Johnson said that some of the 257 originated as far back as her training period)

I don't think that it is.

Nor do I think that anyone has claimed that. I think it's a misinterpretation of what's been said.

She was a nurse from 2011 until 2016. She was in a relatively small unit.

I think that the 4,000 figure relates to every patient she theoretically could have access to when totaling each shift that she worked during her entire career. A career which, let's face it, was quite short. I don't think that it means she had direct involvement in the care of 4,000 babies. That seems to be bordering on the impossible, quite honestly.

 

[Marantz4250b]

thanks for answering my query on the 4K for the review

yes Det Supt Paul Hughes said ' “From 2012 through to 2016, there were more than 4,000 admissions of babies into the neo-natal units of both the Countess of Chester hospital and the Liverpool women’s hospital for us to work through.'

helps me eliminate any idea that she'd only encountered 257
( LWHospital NNU is 44 cots and iirc she only ever did placements there)

The figure of 257 does not represent individual patients, though.

The police found 257 handover sheets in her possession. The sheets are issued at each shift "handover" and contain multiple patient names. They are not patient exclusive.

 

[Tortoise]

Absolutely heartbreaking for the parents that that tiny group of conspiracy theorists who caused the police so much grief during the trial, have now managed to build up a following of people online. Mainly people who never followed the trial themselves and take their word as gospel! Sad times!

It's disrespectful to the parents and to the judicial process too, and to the doctors, the experts, the police investigators, the jurors, and the judge. The defence had their say, tried to discredit them all, including baby E's mum, decided not to put their own two experts on the stand, and failed to raise reasonable doubt in all but two cases out of 22.

If there is an appeal issue it will be dealt with by appellate judges, not people who are ignorant of the facts, didn't follow the trial, and misinterpret the evidence.

 

[cottonweaver]

The figure of 257 does not represent individual patients, though.

The police found 257 handover sheets in her possession. The sheets are issued at each shift "handover" and contain multiple patient names. They are not patient exclusive.

thanks
that's useful. I thought it was 257 different babies

 

[Tortoise]

I've done a list of which consultant doctors were on duty for each incident, as far as I have been able to work out from the trial updates, and added whether LL was designated nurse (D) or not (ND). Deaths in bold.

Jun 2015

A - Ravi Jayaram - D
B - Anon female - ND
C - John Gibbs - ND
D - Elizabeth Newby - ND

Aug 2015

E - Anon female - D
F - John Gibbs - ND

Sep 2015

G - Stephen Brearey - ND
G - John Gibbs - D
H - John Gibbs - D
H - Murthy Saladi - ND
I - Elizabeth Newby - D

Oct 2015

I - Elizabeth Newby - ND
I - Ravi Jayaram - D
I - John Gibbs - ND

Nov 2015

J - John Gibbs - ND

Feb 2016

K - Ravi Jayaram - ND

Apr 2016

L - n/a? - ND
M - Ravi Jayaram - ND

Jun 2016

N - n/a? - ND
N - Murthy Saladi, Stephen Brearey, John Gibbs - D
O - Stephen Brearey, Anon senior female B, John Gibbs - D
P - Anon senior female B - D
Q - John Gibbs - D

 

[cottonweaver]

So did John Gibbs typically do a lot of shifts & nights or it's just a coincidence that she attacks a lot of babies when he's on rota? 7 ( or 8 if you count the multiples for baby 0) Did we hear anything notable about their relationship? Frostier or resentments?

and other than a ' spree' in Sept & June, LL preferred to attack when she was not the designated nurse
( Tortoise's chart, previous page)