GUILTY UK - Paige Doherty, 15, Clydebank, 19 March 2016

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There is no mention of evidence about the murder weapon or Paige's phone, is there? I'd guess he ditched them on his trip to Balmaha on the sunday. He may have hoped to dump her there as well but was unable to for some reason.
 
mrazda71 said:
I recall that someone might come in mid morning so that he could do the deliveries?
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Yes something like that. Well, maybe he gave them the day off. We might never know.
 
Must admit I wasn't expecting him to admit it...

Couple of points that sprang to mind:

1. His car isn't there initially when page enters the shop. Did he go and fetch it at some point. It was my understanding that he only shut the shop once..

2. He seems remarkably clean in the cctv when he goes to the shop to buy the bin bags

3. It seems that cctv throughout the deli. I'm guessing it picked up some video evidence...did he honestly not think it would be looked at..

Not disputing he did it at all but there are some points which still make me go hmm.

On a side note there's lots of new comments appeared on the Daily Record fb page.. many talking about the allegations of an affair/pregnancy which were circulating very early on in the local area...

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Originally Posted by mrazda71
To be fair, I can just about believe his version, when it's put politely in court maybe not so, but as it might have happened, if Paige was anything like a lot of 15 year olds these days, they think they can say anything and if she was saying "I'll tell everyone you're a pedophile just like your brother" etc then that might be enough to flip someone's switch? - but it is still in the back of my mind that a more likely scenario is that Paige or someone close to Paige were involved with Leathem and that Paige was threatening to let the Cat out of the bag ...
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ChuckieD said:
Agreed. However unpopular it may be.

Now he's pleaded guilty would they mention anything about evidence of a relationship like Facebook messages/texts between them etc. Do the prosecution say what they thought the version of events were? I can't remember.
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A relative (I think) MD has posted on the Record facebook about "lies and rumours" She says that there was no relationship between them, and that there was no communication between them at all other than when Paige went into the shop. Everything, including the rumours was investigated by police. She also gives some detail about an horrific injury to Paige's neck.

Personally I think there's a grain of truth in his version of events in so much as I think maybe he did make a pass at Paige and she threatened (quite rightly) to tell. We heard that she was a chatty friendly girl and he could have misinterprerted that as more than it was and over time built up the relationship in his head till it reached the point where he thought he could make his move . Either that or he's a pyschopath and she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time when he happened to flip.

I know we discussed at the time why Paige's body hadn't been found sooner and wondered if had hiddden her body elsewhere before leaving it where he did. It seems thatthat was the case and that he'd hidden her in his shed first.

As for him brazenly going next door to buy black bin liners and disinfectant wipes afterwards, and then carrying her body out in a binliner .. shocking.
 
sar2them1984 said:
Must admit I wasn't expecting him to admit it...

Couple of points that sprang to mind:

1. His car isn't there initially when page enters the shop. Did he go and fetch it at some point. It was my understanding that he only shut the shop once..

2. He seems remarkably clean in the cctv when he goes to the shop to buy the bin bags

3. It seems that cctv throughout the deli. I'm guessing it picked up some video evidence...did he honestly not think it would be looked at..

Not disputing he did it at all but there are some points which still make me go hmm.

On a side note there's lots of new comments appeared on the Daily Record fb page.. many talking about the allegations of an affair/pregnancy which were circulating very early on in the local area...

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According to the Daily Mail
CCTV shows Paige arriving at the deli around 8:15am on March 19. It is understood she was killed around 10 minutes later.
The footage then shows Leathem leaving the premises as he prepares to dispose of the evidence.
He was later captured on camera leaving the shop to buy anti-bacterial wipes, bin bags and bleach, and collect his car from his nearby home, in a bid to cover up the crime.
...CCTV which was shown in court but has not been released by police showed Leathem carrying Paige's body to his car.
Prosecutor Iain McSporran: 'The body of Paige Doherty was wrapped in what appeared to be black bin bags...her white socked foot protruding. He placed her body in the rear of the car and closed the boot.'
Leathem went on to change his trousers and bought bottles of bleach before going back to his shop.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-15-year-old-Paige-Doherty.html#ixzz4JQkDdskp


So he didn't have his car originally but after killing Paige he locked up and went to buy black bin liners, disinfectant wipes and bleach, to get his car and to change his clothes. Not sure if that was in one journey or two
 
I know nothing in these instances ever make sense but my mind cannot get around how much detail seems to be missing from what happened that awful morning. Nothing seems to add up, even is his version of events appear to be far from the truth.

His car is not seen on CCTV as Paige enters the shop, his home was only a very short walking distance from the shop...I'd guess it take as little as 3 minutes to reach from the Deli.

He did not work in that Deli alone at all times there was other staff members; and I do recall from memory that there was a post on the Deli facebook recruiting for staff.
 
sar2them1984 said:
Must admit I wasn't expecting him to admit it...

Couple of points that sprang to mind:

1. His car isn't there initially when page enters the shop. Did he go and fetch it at some point. It was my understanding that he only shut the shop once..

2. He seems remarkably clean in the cctv when he goes to the shop to buy the bin bags

3. It seems that cctv throughout the deli. I'm guessing it picked up some video evidence...did he honestly not think it would be looked at..

Not disputing he did it at all but there are some points which still make me go hmm.

On a side note there's lots of new comments appeared on the Daily Record fb page.. many talking about the allegations of an affair/pregnancy which were circulating very early on in the local area...

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
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Just changing my post as have now re viewed the CCTV on the BBC website and the timings are clearer.

This is a snip from the bbc article which also explains why he was on his own that day.

Just 10 minutes after Paige entered the deli, the shutter to the front door was pulled down.

Leathem told the owner of a nearby hairdresser who had peered in: "What a morning - the lassie didn't turn up. I had a nose bleed and I need to collect my car."

After collecting his car and parking it outside the deli, Leathem began his attempt to cover up the murder.

CCTV images showed him running to neighbouring shops to buy bin bags and anti-bacterial wipes.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-37275524




So JL does buy the bin bags before taking Paige's body to the car ( I was working on the basis that he probably had some in his Deli already and that the ones he bought were just to replace the ones he had used earlier ).

The initial timings that I remember being given by the local shopkeeper now dont add up as he said JL drove away at 8.40am and returned one hour later. But the CCTV shows it is 10am when JL is there, putting Paige into the car. However, I dont suppose the shop keeper was checking to the minute, so it could have been slightly later.


Am surprised JL didnt remove all of the CCTV from inside the Deli for that day. Presumably he did remove the section where he murdered Paige, as this footage has never been mentioned and I think it would have been stated yesterday in court.
 
I believe on one of articles I read yesterday, it said the timings on the cctv are approximate. I took that to mean that the clock on the cctv was a bit out.
 
Alyce said:
I agree Jessie, I don't think it was premeditated. But, because there was history there, in that Paige was not a stranger to him, then I think whatever was said between them on that day was something they had discussed ( perhaps even argued about ) on previous occasions. This time, for whatever reason, he reacted violently.
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Sorry not to acknowledge your reply before Alyce.

I just cannot understand how this would have happened - so fast, so violent, seems quite unpredictable.

But I suppose we all feel we want answers/reasons. Her poor family, and poor little Paige, just a child.

Perhaps pleading guilty avoids him (monster) putting in public his motive, because there must have been one. How can we understand the twisted minds of such people.
 
Alyce said:
Am surprised JL didnt remove all of the CCTV from inside the Deli for that day. Presumably he did remove the section where he murdered Paige, as this footage has never been mentioned and I think it would have been stated yesterday in court.
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I don't think the murder would have been on cctv or police would have used it as evidence. If there is some truth to his tale they went in the back room to discuss a job offer, the back room probably would not have had cctv. A lot of small businesses just have one or two cameras which cover who enters the building and that's it.

The internal cctv footage of her entering the shop certainly would exist but there was no need to show that in evidence as the external cctv showed she clearly entered the shop anyhow.
 
I think he did come on to her in that back room and start to touch her. She pulled away from his advances and started to scream she was going to tell on him. He reacted by furiously stabbing her over and over. Often there's a grain of truth in the lies. He DID touch her, she DID threaten to tell and that's when he killed her.

I've had a man come on to me in a very inappropriate way while I was inquiring about a job. Still makes me sick thinking about it. It was frightening too because we were alone in his closed office.
 
Ironside said:
I don't think the murder would have been on cctv or police would have used it as evidence. If there is some truth to his tale they went in the back room to discuss a job offer, the back room probably would not have had cctv. A lot of small businesses just have one or two cameras which cover who enters the building and that's it.

The internal cctv footage of her entering the shop certainly would exist but there was no need to show that in evidence as the external cctv showed she clearly entered the shop anyhow.
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Edited .......... just re watched it.........the area that I thought was the back office is actually part of the front section of the shop. JL goes into the back, then comes out and walks towards an area with table tops, but it is at the back of the main shop.
 
I think it may have been in the daily record yesterday but I definitely saw an article quoting Paiges grandfather stating the rumours of a relationship were lies and that the police had checked Paige and Leathams phones for any contact between them.

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eneri12 said:
I think it may have been in the daily record yesterday but I definitely saw an article quoting Paiges grandfather stating the rumours of a relationship were lies and that the police had checked Paige and Leathams phones for any contact between them.

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Whilst it could well be, probably is that there was no 'relationship' between Paige and Leathem - I'm not sure that her step-grandad would know even if there were. Most grandparents don't really know what their grandchildren get up to as teenagers ... I'd be more interested to hear what the best friend knew mind.
 
Not sure what that was that I found yesterday ! but JL is in Court today and Judge is currently doing her remarks before sentencing.

Matthew Coyle ‏@Mattycoyle 60m60 minutes ago

At the High Court in Glasgow where John Leathem is due to be sentenced for the murder of schoolgirl #PaigeDoherty in Clydebank

Leathem's lawyer says that his background makes him a "very unexceptional" individual

Psychiatrists who assessed Leathem said they found no evidence of anger management issues

Paige Doherty's killer's lawyer says there was a "Verbal exchange" with her "which may have frightened" him

John Leathem's QC asks Judge Lady Rae to take into account how "out of character" his actions were when he murdered Paige

Prosecutor in the case points out John Leathem previously "concocted" a story about Paige coming into his shop to buy a roll then leaving

Called back into court as Judge Lady Rae to sentence John Leathem for the murder of 15-year-old Paige Doherty
 
Matthew Coyle ‏@Mattycoyle 4m4 minutes ago

Judge Lady Rae says he pled guilty to the murder of a "defenceless child" in a "savage and frenzied attack"

The judge points out that he claimed to have taken her details with a view to giving her a potential job

The judge then says he stabbed her repeatedly after claiming she said she would accuse him of touching her inappropriately.

The judge says that there is no evidence to support his claims and no evidence had been put before her to explain "ferocity" of the attack

Paig suffered in "excess of 146" wounds. Not only stab wounds but slashing wounds and a gaping neck wound

The judge then says Leathem "not satisfied" with brutally murdering Paige then tried to cover up his actions

She says it is "impossible to comprehend" how a happily married man could have carried out such an act

The judge says she cannot do justice to the effects felt by Paige's family and adds their life will never be the same again
 
Radio Clyde News ‏@RadioClydeNews 8m8 minutes ago Glasgow, Scotland

Paige Doherty described "as a defenceless child" by Judge Lady Rae who describes what she endured as "savage and frenzied attack.



Rebecca Gray Verified account ‏@RGray_87 6m6 minutes ago

Judge: No evidence been put before me to explain "ferocity" of the attack or motive.




Radio Clyde News ‏@RadioClydeNews 6m6 minutes ago Glasgow, Scotland

Judge Lady Rae describes what John Leatham did to Paige Doherty as "an horrific level of violence
 
Matthew Coyle ‏@Mattycoyle 26s27 seconds ago

John Leathem has been sentenced to life in prison with a minimum of 27 years for the murder of schoolgirl Paige Doherty
 
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