GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #10

[Wallace]

Another thing I noticed is tha NM said he made two journeys with JI and KD to the shed that night then the next day went back to he shed to add a rucksack


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-stepbrother-6716128#rlabs=49%20p$5

That made me wonder what was in the rucksack, why did he take it separately and where was it when police searched.

Well, I found what the rucksack contained...(see below) All the random bis and bobs involved in the crime... but why was this taken separately the next day? Was it just overlooked... or maybe still being packed? or something else?

[FONT=open_sans]The jury was told there were several items in this rucksack, above, including:[/FONT]
A used Avon make up brush
Apparently blood stained safety goggles
Used roll of brown tape
Black handled screwdriver
Shower curtain
Asda cling film cardboard box
Masks with apparent make up on the interior edge
Handcuffs
Knife with a 12.5cm blade, apparently blood-stained
Scissors
Flat-headed blue-handled screwdriver
Drain cleaner bottles, apparently blood-stained
Blue handled pliers, apparently blood-stained
Rajani Stores bag, apparently blood-stained
Hooded jacket and small pink leopard print onesie
[FONT=open_sans]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-27992054-detail/story.html#ixzz3pokQhIQ4


[/FONT]

You misread the article, it says they made two trips to load the van.

 

[ColourPurple]

You misread the article, it says they made two trips to load the van.

Yes it does look like it means two trips on foot to load the van (I'll edit TY) but the relevant part I was interested in was him going back the next day with a rucksack

 

[Wallace]

Yes it does look like it means two trips on foot to load the van (I'll edit TY) but the relevant part I was interested in was him going back the next day with a rucksack

Yes I know you'd have thought they'd have got everything the first time around. I haven't been paying enough attention to know what was in the rucksack and if it was moved before or after the Police search of their home.

 

[edgedweller]

Another thing I noticed is tha NM said he made two journeys with JI and KD to the shed (ETA or two trips on foot fill up the van)that night but then the next day went back to he shed to add a rucksack


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-stepbrother-6716128#rlabs=49%20p$5

That made me wonder what was in the rucksack, why did he take it separately and where was it when police searched.

Well, I found what the rucksack contained...(see below) All the random bis and bobs involved in the crime... but why was this taken separately the next day? Was it just overlooked... or maybe still being packed? or something else?

[FONT=open_sans]The jury was told there were several items in this rucksack, above, including:[/FONT]
A used Avon make up brush
Apparently blood stained safety goggles
Used roll of brown tape
Black handled screwdriver
Shower curtain
Asda cling film cardboard box
Masks with apparent make up on the interior edge
Handcuffs
Knife with a 12.5cm blade, apparently blood-stained
Scissors
Flat-headed blue-handled screwdriver
Drain cleaner bottles, apparently blood-stained
Blue handled pliers, apparently blood-stained
Rajani Stores bag, apparently blood-stained
Hooded jacket and small pink leopard print onesie
[FONT=open_sans]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-27992054-detail/story.html#ixzz3pokQhIQ4


[/FONT]

All these 'apparently bloodstained' items - whose blood is this? It's got to be BW's, surely? Have they confirmed DNA on them? None of NM's DNA or SH's on the goggles? I know the makeup on the mask must be Shauna's, but were there no skin cells, no sweat? I feel like there are holes in the Crown's case...


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[Beesknees]

How can an unstable, emotional, with anger problems, sometimes violent, with a serious illness, impulsive, metrosexual - neanderthal person like Nathan Matthews commit such a crime and in 10/15 minuts be sat in a sofa talking to his girlfriend as if nothing happened? Not sweating, not shaking, not shocked?!

My answer is IN ANY WAY. It didn't happen! Even both 'working' together had difficulty in having things more or less when AG arrived! Hence the fingerprints of blood in more than one door at Becky's home! They were so carefull with DNA in their home, why not in Becky's?

They were very busy during the time AG was in hospital. First finishing Becky, cleaning all they saw, putting her and her things in the car (SH surely had the idea of the make up) and after trying to memorise the first things to say from that moment on. The stomp, stomp, stomp, the door slamming, the music in Becky's room...

Is it real that their child was there? I don't think she was! Was it reported in court?

 

[edgedweller]

When I watch Shauna in the videos, she initially comes across as very young, naive and not very bright to me, but then the odd expression 'leaks' through when she looks devious and knowing and slightly desperate. How on earth would NM have had the time to wrap all those body parts so thoroughly without help? Was there no DNA on any of the duct tape? That stuff is sticky as hell and really hard to use with bare hands, let alone with gloves. Did they find any rubber or latex gloves? No DNA inside them? Each 'parcel would have taken a good 10 minutes to wrap, at least, presuming they were wrapped quite tightly to keep the crystals/fluid/smell in (sorry), which all takes time. So at least 1.5 hrs to wrap all those pieces.
Plus in my experience men are not particularly good at wrapping - perhaps in cross-examination they they should present him with some tape, cling film and a joint of beef and see if he can recreate a decent parcel!
Presumably the torso was heavy and hence it wasn't wrapped as carefully (the wacky warehouse bag is just stomach turning).
I cannot understand the wrapping and 'disposal' of the body like this - what a messy, risky and distressing way to do it when a quick midnight drive to Clevedon Pier, or one of numerous places within an hour's drive to put a body in the water or a steep gorge. I live 20 miles north of Bristol and I can think of 3 or 4 remote commons or fields where you could hide something. There's a massive river running through Bristol and not all of it will be covered by CCTV. Alice Gross was hidden in quite shallow water in London and wasn't found for quite a while, and that was an opportunistic killing with hardly any time to plan disposal.
Anyway, just a few of my thoughts... It worries me that there isn't even an airtight case against Nathan. The lack of Becky's DNA in the bathroom is weird, but why would he lie about where he dismembered her? To be honest I would rather spend a good chunk of my life in prison than have to dismember a body, especially one of someone I knew well. Poor Becky, this really was a senseless crime. How AG can even look at NM is beyond me.


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[edgedweller]

Oh yes, and why does he say that he dismembered Becky's body when Shauna wasn't there, and she says she heard the saw? Has he even mentioned when he wrapped her up? Presumably one of the times that Shauna was asleep ? I just cannot believe that she saw nothing weird while he was cutting up a body and hiding it in their house. It's not like she was out at work all day, or going shopping, or having coffee out with friends, or taking the daughter round for a play date somewhere like normal mothers do. No, he had made sure that she never did any of those things so if she really knew nothing, he must've kicked himself for making her so dependent on him when he wanted her out of the way [emoji43]


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[edgedweller]

Sorry - my husband woke me at 330am with his snoring and now I'm
wide awake catching up on here and getting all my thoughts out!
I would love to read a psychiatric report on NM. Also to get a profiler to assess the crime and the aftermath - is it the usual disposal method of a family member? Or more that of a disassociated stranger? From my reading in the past, it's incredibly difficult to dismember someone that you have a family or friendship bond with; it's just too intimate and upsetting. Usually they are left intact and buried, covered over and certainly the face covered due to guilt. A murdered stranger would be more likely to be dumped without any 'ceremony' or burial. But if he didn't get on with BW anyway, had a grudge against her, did that make it easier for him to dispose of her body in such a gruesome way? He certainly had no respect for her before or after death. I think he's a psychopath.
SH not sure - she 'obviously' knows the right things to say, but the problem is that it sounds like a script, like she knows what one would be expected to say in that situation, but can't quite pull it off and betrays her state of mind by only crying when she remembers how this will impact HER and her family. I don't buy the little woman totally dominated by aggressive boyfriend act - I think they were both probably aggressive when they wanted to be. He probably did stop her going out, wearing makeup, etc when he felt like it, by making a fuss and sulking. She had nobody else so had to put up with him. To her that became normal. But I don't believe she was particularly terrified.


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[edgedweller]

And did anyone else notice that he didn't say 'obviously' very much when he was on the stand yesterday?! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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[Beesknees]

Sorry - my husband woke me at 330am with his snoring and now I'm
wide awake catching up on here and getting all my thoughts out!
I would love to read a psychiatric report on NM. Also to get a profiler to assess the crime and the aftermath - is it the usual disposal method of a family member? Or more that of a disassociated stranger? From my reading in the past, it's incredibly difficult to dismember someone that you have a family or friendship bond with; it's just too intimate and upsetting. Usually they are left intact and buried, covered over and certainly the face covered due to guilt. A murdered stranger would be more likely to be dumped without any 'ceremony' or burial. But if he didn't get on with BW anyway, had a grudge against her, did that make it easier for him to dispose of her body in such a gruesome way? He certainly had no respect for her before or after death. I think he's a psychopath.
SH not sure - she 'obviously' knows the right things to say, but the problem is that it sounds like a script, like she knows what one would be expected to say in that situation, but can't quite pull it off and betrays her state of mind by only crying when she remembers how this will impact HER and her family. I don't buy the little woman totally dominated by aggressive boyfriend act - I think they were both probably aggressive when they wanted to be. He probably did stop her going out, wearing makeup, etc when he felt like it, by making a fuss and sulking. She had nobody else so had to put up with him. To her that became normal. But I don't believe she was particularly terrified.


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I agree with what you are saying. So many inconsistences and lies. They are following the script they had more than time to reherse.

Is it really truth that their child was there with them at Becky's home the day she was killed? Was it said in court or confirmed by the police?

 

[edgedweller]

I have heard very little about their child - no details about where she was on key days. Possibly at Crown Hill?


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[edgedweller]

I have heard very little about their child - no details about where she was on key days. Possibly at Crown Hill?


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Sorry, I meant on days where NM and SH were going shopping/"cleaning" and wrapping up a body!
On the day of the murder, I think she must have been watching TV while it was all going on. With a high chair and some snacks, I would say a two yr old could be kept quiet for 1/2 an hour or so.


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[iclaudia]

Couldn't this then be true of Nathan? If you say that Shauna, at almost halfway through a pregnancy with twins could find the wherewithal then surely the same could be applied to Nathan getting Becky to the car boot despite his Fibro?

Someone in the last thread said something like 'I can't imagine Becky just letting him put on handcuffs' complying with his orders etc But I think unless you're actually IN a situation you don't know how you'll react to something so alien. You might think if someone grabbed me on my way home and tried to drag me off I'd do xyz but IF it actually happened you'd be taken by surprise for a start, shocked, stunned, paralysed with fear anything, your brain and body could behave in ways which are the complete opposite to what you think you'd do when sat in safety just imaging it ... if that makes sense.

Another point I'd like to make - can't recall who said it but the person said 'she's not even reacting like it's affecting it, she's cold or calm etc not shocked or horrified' ... my opinion on that is, it's not the first time she's heard it! She is very pregnant and if innocent, in what must be a living nightmare and at 21! Good grief! My 20 year old still wants me to make her drs appointments for her and take stuff that doesn't fit back to New Look! - Shauna will have been asked the same questions over and over and over - as for her 'laughing' I'd hardly call it laughing but even so - I laugh/snort/whatever you want to call it at the most difficult and inappropriate times ...

Completely agree. If she is innocent her whole world has completely collapsed and she is facing the prospect of being separated from her child/ren possibly permanently. If I was innocent and in her situation, I'd hardly be able to speak at the prospect of what he'd done to "us". Yes, "US" ... as well as to Becky. If she is innocent and she is implicated and found guilty, he has destroyed up to four other lives on top of Becky's and his own.

 

[edgedweller]

Completely agree. If she is innocent her whole world has completely collapsed and she is facing the prospect of being separated from her child/ren possibly permanently. If I was innocent and in her situation, I'd hardly be able to speak at the prospect of what he'd done to "us". Yes, "US" ... as well as to Becky. If she is innocent and she is implicated and found guilty, he has destroyed up to four other lives on top of Becky's and his own.

Yes, I sympathise with her situation, it would be a nightmare; but do you really believe that SH could know *nothing*? I have no idea whether she was involved in killing Becky (although I think they may have approached her for a threesome which was rejected by BW and she said something that infuriated NM), but I believe she was involved in the cover-up.


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[cottonweaver]

Yes, I sympathise with her situation, it would be a nightmare; but do you really believe that SH could know *nothing*? I have no idea whether she was involved in killing Becky (although I think they may have approached her for a threesome which was rejected by BW and she said something that infuriated NM), but I believe she was involved in the cover-up.


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Becky's friend (Bicker) said that he had made threats ( whether serious or not ) to Becky as early as 2013. Bicker said 'numerous' threats in last 2years
Whatever the involvement of SH it appears he has had some dark thoughts for quite a while. The idea of violent sexual overtures gone wrong seems to fit but it may be that he has fantasised about this for some time?

Today the court heard from Becky's best best friend Courtney Bicker and Nathan Matthews’ grandmother Margaret May.

Miss Bicker described how Becky told her she was 'creeped out and scared' by Matthews after he allegedly told her how he planned to kill her

.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-recap-6665828

 

[cottonweaver]

Sorry - my husband woke me at 330am with his snoring and now I'm
wide awake catching up on here and getting all my thoughts out!
I would love to read a psychiatric report on NM. Also to get a profiler to assess the crime and the aftermath - is it the usual disposal method of a family member? Or more that of a disassociated stranger? From my reading in the past, it's incredibly difficult to dismember someone that you have a family or friendship bond with; it's just too intimate and upsetting. Usually they are left intact and buried, covered over and certainly the face covered due to guilt. A murdered stranger would be more likely to be dumped without any 'ceremony' or burial. But if he didn't get on with BW anyway, had a grudge against her, did that make it easier for him to dispose of her body in such a gruesome way? He certainly had no respect for her before or after death. I think he's a psychopath.
SH not sure - she 'obviously' knows the right things to say, but the problem is that it sounds like a script, like she knows what one would be expected to say in that situation, but can't quite pull it off and betrays her state of mind by only crying when she remembers how this will impact HER and her family. I don't buy the little woman totally dominated by aggressive boyfriend act - I think they were both probably aggressive when they wanted to be. He probably did stop her going out, wearing makeup, etc when he felt like it, by making a fuss and sulking. She had nobody else so had to put up with him. To her that became normal. But I don't believe she was particularly terrified.

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The grandmother whom NM lived with ages 7-23, seems biased against SH, but even still, it's interesting that she described SH as controlling.

She said she ‘disapproved’ of Hoare and noticed how her grandson went ‘downhill’ while they were together.

She said: “She was much too young for him... (she was) dominant in lots of ways.

Mrs May said Matthews became “paranoid” and his home became - cluttered, “a dumping ground for everything”.

 

[edgedweller]

Becky's friend (Bicker) said that he had made threats ( whether serious or not ) to Becky as early as 2013. Bicker said 'numerous' threats in last 2years
Whatever the involvement of SH it appears he has had some dark thoughts for quite a while. The idea of violent sexual overtures gone wrong seems to fit but it may be that he has fantasised about this for some time?

.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-recap-6665828

Did we ever get to hear what these threats were, specifically? What did he actually say when he "described how he would kill her"? I thought this would come out when Courtney testified but it all seems very vague.


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[Bathsheba]

Has NM been asked yet about the *advertiser censored* and the kidnap messages? Is he taking the stand again today?

 

[edgedweller]

Has NM been asked yet about the *advertiser censored* and the kidnap messages? Is he taking the stand again today?

I presume he'll continue today.


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[Tortoise]

And did anyone else notice that he didn't say 'obviously' very much when he was on the stand yesterday?! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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Obviously he said obviously in between almost every word. take a look at this transcript -

here's a little snippet -

[FONT=open_sans]"Obviously she got down to her knees and I got the handcuffs and obviously put the hand cuffs on her.[/FONT]

[FONT=open_sans]"I didn't use my voice. I used a deep voice. [/FONT]

[FONT=open_sans]"Obviously got her on her back and went to lift her and put her in the suitcase. [/FONT]

[FONT=open_sans]"Obviously I was struggling and my mask slipped. [/FONT]

[FONT=open_sans]"I put my hand over her eyes. [/FONT]

[FONT=open_sans]"When she was on her knees I obviously told her to keep her eyes shut. [/FONT]

[FONT=open_sans]

Read more: http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-28063895-detail/story.html#ixzz3pqo4i5hZ
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