GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #15

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I basically agree. For me the difficulty is that we still don't really know what happened. I find the prosecution's sex slave theory the least likely scenario of the lot, and unlike NM's version it hasn't been tested or fleshed out. It still has so many unanswered questions: where were they planning to keep Becky in that overcrowded little house, what if Becky's dad had called the police straight away and they'd come knocking at the door, how long were they planning to keep her, etc. It's one thing to poke holes in NM's story, another to present a realistic alternative to it, and (at least on what we've heard) I don't think the prosecution has done that.

NM's story also seems farfetched, but to me a little less so. Becky's dad's statement essentially supports the defence case, not the prosecution's. If NM's story is true, then it does seem a little difficult to believe SH knew nothing about it - I can imagine him sending her out into the garden with the toddler while he put this kidnap plan into practice. I don't believe she had any direct part in it; aside from anything else, I doubt NM would've allowed it (I mean, this is a guy who didn't even like her smoking). If I accepted NM's story as true then I'd really be on the fence as to whether SH should be convicted of manslaughter (not murder). I'm not sure it's been proven that she knew about it, even if it seems likely she did.

If, on the other hand, there was no kidnap plan at all, then it's quite possible SH played no part in the killing itself, and that it was an argument between NM and Becky that escalated out of control. I'd probably convict her of perverting the course of justice for covering for him, but not murder or manslaughter.

Basically, to convict her of murder/manslaughter, I'd first need to be convinced she was guilty of conspiracy to kidnap, and I'm not...

He didn't like her smoking .... but "gave permission" for her to smoke, not only in the presence of their 2 year old, but whilst pregnant with his twins. He couldn't have had that much of a problem with it!

Besides, SH didn't say that he sent her in the garden .... she says she asked if she could have a cigarette, then smoked in the garden and fed the rabbit.
 
when they read through the verdicts for NM, we will know the verdicts for SH in relation to the kidnap and murder charges.


if it's not guilty for NM on conspiracy to kidnap then it will be the same for SH and will follow they have decided she is not guilty of murder or manslaughter too.
 
He didn't like her smoking .... but "gave permission" for her to smoke, not only in the presence of their 2 year old, but whilst pregnant with his twins. He couldn't have had that much of a problem with it!

Besides, SH didn't say that he sent her in the garden .... she says she asked if she could have a cigarette, then smoked in the garden and fed the rabbit.

I was talking there about the hypothetical scenario that there was a conspiracy to kidnap, or at least that SH was aware of a kidnap plan. In that scenario I can imagine him telling her to take the toddler and go into the garden for a bit while he tackled Becky, and that he'd come and get her when he was done. I can see him being macho enough to want to do the whole thing on his own, and it does seem unlikely to me that a fairly heavily pregnant-with-twins woman with a toddler in tow would've agreed to become involved. NM would want to protect her I think, as he has done throughout.

That's if there was a kidnap plot.
 
[video=youtube;cDMhlvbOFaM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDMhlvbOFaM[/video]

:sorry:

Not entirely inappropriate though .... :)

If I got locked up and sentenced to a quarter century,
Could I count on you to be there to support me mentally?
 
If I got locked up and sentenced to a quarter century,
Could I count on you to be there to support me mentally?[/I]

Nooo I had that song stuck in my head for weeks!! :cheers:

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
 
I'm of the same opinion as Insp. Dots.

IMO, SH is guilty of the before, during and after, (NM's words, I keep repeating :p) BUT......

Imo I believe SH is guilty of everything and agree on before during and after
 
I basically agree. For me the difficulty is that we still don't really know what happened. I find the prosecution's sex slave theory the least likely scenario of the lot, and unlike NM's version it hasn't been tested or fleshed out. It still has so many unanswered questions: where were they planning to keep Becky in that overcrowded little house, what if Becky's dad had called the police straight away and they'd come knocking at the door, how long were they planning to keep her, etc. It's one thing to poke holes in NM's story, another to present a realistic alternative to it, and (at least on what we've heard) I don't think the prosecution has done that.

NM's story also seems farfetched, but to me a little less so. Becky's dad's statement essentially supports the defence case, not the prosecution's. If NM's story is true, then it does seem a little difficult to believe SH knew nothing about it - I can imagine him sending her out into the garden with the toddler while he put this kidnap plan into practice. I don't believe she had any direct part in it; aside from anything else, I doubt NM would've allowed it (I mean, this is a guy who didn't even like her smoking). If I accepted NM's story as true then I'd really be on the fence as to whether SH should be convicted of manslaughter (not murder). I'm not sure it's been proven that she knew about it, even if it seems likely she did.

If, on the other hand, there was no kidnap plan at all, then it's quite possible SH played no part in the killing itself, and that it was an argument between NM and Becky that escalated out of control. I'd probably convict her of perverting the course of justice for covering for him, but not murder or manslaughter.

Basically, to convict her of murder/manslaughter, I'd first need to be convinced she was guilty of conspiracy to kidnap, and I'm not...

That's pretty much where I am at the moment. Were I on the jury I coud confidently convict her of perverting the course of justice but would waver on anything more. Not because I dont think that she could have been involved in the murder but because I don't think there's enough to prove it, and I'm not convinced enough that a kidnap even happened to be able to convict her via joint enterprise for being part of a kidnap plan. But then I've been hesitant in (viewing) previous trials where juries have convicted.
 
I'm interested to know mrazda and kaly99, if you feel SH came across in her police interviews as telling the truth.
 
Yes me, I'm not convinced that Shauna is guilty of conspiracy to Kidnap or murder. I know I'm not the only one too, though it's sometimes difficult to speak up and go against the crowd.

I dont think we've heard 100% truth from Nathan's story though I feel that may be because so much is not being made public (as yet, if ever) , in part to protect the family and or Becky's reputation.

But I don't believe Nathan and Shauna planned to kidnap Becky and hold her as a sex slave etc then kill her and I don't believe there is any vampire element or such story ...

I'm quite open to being proved wrong though and if the Jury decided that it was pre planned kidnapping and murder with a sexual motive then I shan't be surprised as I trust that they know what they're doing.

:)


So you do believe she's guilty of perverting the course of justice?

In a "normal" case I wouldn't even consider the sex slave or vampire element. Were there no kidnap texts, no apparently mutual interest in teenage girls, no threesomes, no comments from SH about Becky's development and virginity, no teenage rape video, and no viewing of vampire movies and Frozen parodies on the nights where they had possession of Becky's dead body then I'd have no reason to think in that direction but I can't ignore that there are all those things and that this could be linked to why Becky died.

Then there's the voyeurism, sexual assault and child *advertiser censored* charges. Even though not proven and I know I would be asked to ignore them when making a decision, it does make me think there could well have been a sexual element. Plus after Tabak's case and seeing what they weren't allowed to admit as evidence makes me wonder what else they may have that has made the prosecution so sure this crime was sexually motivated. Having said that, personally I'd probably still only be able to convict of peverting the course of justice.
 
So you do believe she's guilty of perverting the course of justice?

In a "normal" case I wouldn't even consider the sex slave or vampire element. Were there no kidnap texts, no apparently mutual interest in teenage girls, no threesomes, no comments from SH about Becky's development and virginity, no teenage rape video, and no viewing of vampire movies and Frozen parodies on the nights where they had possession of Becky's dead body then I'd have no reason to think in that direction but I can't ignore that there are all those things and that this could be linked to why Becky died.

Then there's the voyeurism, sexual assault and child *advertiser censored* charges. Even though not proven and I know I would be asked to ignore them when making a decision, it does make me think there could well have been a sexual element. Plus after Tabak's case and seeing what they weren't allowed to admit as evidence makes me wonder what else they may have that has made the prosecution so sure this crime was sexually motivated. Having said that, personally I'd probably still only be able to convict of peverting the course of justice.

putting aside your view that you couldn't convict on the kidnap and killing charges, do you think she is guilty of these charges but haven't seen enough evidence?
 
I don't think she's NOT Guilty of kidnap or Murder BUT I'm just not sure the Jury feel there is enough evidence for a 'sound' conviction. On the otherhand, I see NO DOUBT that she's Guilty on the Perverting the course of Justice and hope IF it comes to that the Judge will give her the longest sentence possible!


Same here. Even if she knew and made sure she didn't get her hands dirty, she lied to police the night the body was later moved. Told them they were staying over night at her parents , which enabled them to sneak back in a different car undetected and avoid the police finding Becky's body. In her later interviews she doesn't appear to have tried to stick to that story by saying "Oh I did think we were going to stay over night but the plan changed". Instead she's using the story that NM had been drinking (even though she hadn't seen him drink) otherwise they'd have driven home in his car. NM had also told her parents the car wasn't working properly, presumably because they knew he hadn't been drinking so he couldn't use that excuse.
 
putting aside your view that you couldn't convict on the kidnap and killing charges, do you think she is guilty of these charges but haven't seen enough evidence?

I think she could be but still think it's possible she ended up getting involved at the stage where NM had already killed Becky. Then again I still can't rule out that SH killed Becky herself either.
 
That's pretty much where I am at the moment. Were I on the jury I coud confidently convict her of perverting the course of justice but would waver on anything more. Not because I dont think that she could have been involved in the murder but because I don't think there's enough to prove it, and I'm not convinced enough that a kidnap even happened to be able to convict her via joint enterprise for being part of a kidnap plan. But then I've been hesitant in (viewing) previous trials where juries have convicted.

Lack of physical evidence is a problem for me. BUT what I would argue is that we have been told NM has a medical condition which leaves him in a lot of pain, tired and is so debilitating that he has trouble even hanging out washing. We have had him in the dock, stating that this condition was causing him discomfort and pain when he was just standing/sitting in the dock. His defence hasn't done or said anything to contradict the claim that his Fibro is pretty severe.

So we are then left to believe that despite the above, NM could fight with and overpower a fit and healthy 16 year old, roughly his own height. He could murder her, by smothering her (though he says strangling) and apparently didn't sustain any injuries to himself. He could then carry a 9 stone body down the stairs, lift it into his car and return to the living showing no signs whatsoever of this exertion (even though just standing in the dock was causing him pain).

He was able to inflict 40 separate injuries to Becky, yet didn't break out in a sweat.

Despite that exertion, we are to believe he later carried her body out of his car ....... a 9 stone weight being lifted out of a car boot remember - I struggle to lift a bag of shopping out of my boot. He then was able to carry it upstairs and over a period of days, use a (heavy?) electric saw to dismember it.

He used that saw with just the one hand remember, so he must have been pretty strong to do that - even though he struggles to hang out washing. He struggles using 2 hands to operate a peg and a piece of laundry but can use an electric saw, with just the one arm/hand and use it with perfect precision.

After that, he was still well enough to carry out a sustained cleaning operation to remove all traces of DNA, blood and so on.

That, for me, would have to be the proof that SH was involved ...... even if, as I do suspect, he might have always lied about the extent of his Fibro for reasons of benefits or similar.

However we have been told by his defence that his story was the truth and that he is a person of previous good character and his account of what happened should be believed. Therefore if his defence want me to believe his everyday living was hampered by such a severe case of Fibro that he struggled to lift a single item of laundry to hang on a washing line, then I would have to believe he couldn't have done the crime all by himself.
 
I'm interested to know mrazda and kaly99, if you feel SH came across in her police interviews as telling the truth.
Honestly, to gauge if she was being honest or lying, I would have to have been sat opposite her or at least have a camera angle from that prospective and to have seen the videos in the unedited entirety.
 
I'm interested to know mrazda and kaly99, if you feel SH came across in her police interviews as telling the truth.

I'd need to see the interviews in their entirety to be able to properly judge that, I think. We've seen such a tiny proportion of them. Even of the bits we have heard, often we just have her responses, and don't know what questions she was asked.

Having said that, I'd convict her of perverting the course of justice because of the sheer number of coincidences and improbabilities in her story, so I think she probably is lying.
 
snipped .........

However we have been told by his defence that his story was the truth and that he is a person of previous good character and his account of what happened should be believed. Therefore if his defence want me to believe his everyday living was hampered by such a severe case of Fibro that he struggled to lift a single item of laundry to hang on a washing line, then I would have to believe he couldn't have done the crime all by himself.

Exactly this. They can't have it both ways.
 
Lack of physical evidence is a problem for me. BUT what I would argue is that we have been told NM has a medical condition which leaves him in a lot of pain, tired and is so debilitating that he has trouble even hanging out washing. We have had him in the dock, stating that this condition was causing him discomfort and pain when he was just standing/sitting in the dock. His defence hasn't done or said anything to contradict the claim that his Fibro is pretty severe.

So we are then left to believe that despite the above, NM could fight with and overpower a fit and healthy 16 year old, roughly his own height. He could murder her, by smothering her (though he says strangling) and apparently didn't sustain any injuries to himself. He could then carry a 9 stone body down the stairs, lift it into his car and return to the living showing no signs whatsoever of this exertion (even though just standing in the dock was causing him pain).

He was able to inflict 40 separate injuries to Becky, yet didn't break out in a sweat.

Despite that exertion, we are to believe he later carried her body out of his car ....... a 9 stone weight being lifted out of a car boot remember - I struggle to lift a bag of shopping out of my boot. He then was able to carry it upstairs and over a period of days, use a (heavy?) electric saw to dismember it.

He used that saw with just the one hand remember, so he must have been pretty strong to do that - even though he struggles to hang out washing. He struggles using 2 hands to operate a peg and a piece of laundry but can use an electric saw, with just the one arm/hand and use it with perfect precision.

After that, he was still well enough to carry out a sustained cleaning operation to remove all traces of DNA, blood and so on.

That, for me, would have to be the proof that SH was involved ...... even if, as I do suspect, he might have always lied about the extent of his Fibro for reasons of benefits or similar.

However we have been told by his defence that his story was the truth and that he is a person of previous good character and his account of what happened should be believed. Therefore if his defence want me to believe his everyday living was hampered by such a severe case of Fibro that he struggled to lift a single item of laundry to hang on a washing line, then I would have to believe he couldn't have done the crime all by himself.

I agree that I think he probably exaggerated his illness for benefit purposes(same as them claiming benefits as living apart when they lived together) but If SH is involved after Becky died the only thing he has to do on his own is to kill Becky. Her injuries suggest there was a struggle rather than him being able to easily overpower her and she died on her back with her mouth and nose covered so he could have been on top of her using his bodyweight weight rather than his strength. From that point on SH could have helped with everything else; helped carry the body downstairs, into the car, into his house etc.
 
I did mine with the OU too - graduated 3 years ago. Good luck with the rest of it :)

Ooh lol. Excellent. Well done you! .... Nice to know someone else who's on the same wavelength. And ty for the luck... always up for some of that.
 
Re the injuries - or lack of - to NM and SH.

How would we know ? They did not give statements until almost one week later and at no point would they be asked to undress in any way.

NM, from memory, was wearing a short sleeve top by the time of his later interviews ( Feb 28 onwards ) so clearly no worries there from him re injuries or bruising.

SH on the other hand was wearing long sleeved clothing and presumably tights ? which is all fairly normal, it was early March and cold weather. But could also be hiding a multitude of injuries.
 
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