GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #15

[sar2them1984]

Anyone want to speculate on sentences?

my guess

NM whole life
SH life

Yep I'm guessing he'll get a whole life not only because of the aggravating factors I. E kidnap, sexual element, dismemberment but also because he has not shown one ounce of remorse

I think SH will get life with minimum term 15 -20 years

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[Orange Tabby]

Anyone want to speculate on sentences?

my guess

NM whole life
SH life

For those of us not in the UK, can anyone explain the difference between "whole life" and "life"? Does the latter allow for the possibility of parole at some point and the former make parole a legal impossibility?

 

[sar2them1984]

I wonder if SH's QC will bring in anything in mitigation about her being controlled or abused by NM

I've seen a few articles today which are showing some empathy towards her so I'm eyeing her qc will go down that line too...didn't they say initially that SHS charges or mitigating factors or something along those lines were slightly different to NMs

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[Tortoise]

The longest possible imo, I wouldn't like to think these two ever walk the streets again.

I was really surprised to read a poster (sorry can't recall whom) mentioning that Perverting the Cause of Justice can carry a life sentence. I had no idea it was such a serious crime with such a heavy penalty. Learnt a lot here.

I don't agree with concurrent sentences either. Each crime committed deserves a term to be served on a nonconcurrent basis - OMOO.

preventing burial must be a big one too I should think.

 

[sar2them1984]

For those of us not in the UK, can anyone explain the difference between "whole life" and "life"? Does the latter allow for the possibility of parole at some point and the former make parole a legal impossibility?

Life means that after a minimum term set by the judge then the guilty party can be considered for parole

Those with a whole life sentence will never be considered for parole

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[Tortoise]

For those of us not in the UK, can anyone explain the difference between "whole life" and "life"? Does the latter allow for the possibility of parole at some point and the former make parole a legal impossibility?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_England_and_Wales

In England and Wales, life imprisonment is a sentence which lasts until the death of the prisoner, although in most cases the prisoner will be eligible for parole (officially termed "early release") after a fixed period set by the judge. This period is known as the "minimum term" (previously known as the "tariff"). In some exceptionally grave cases, however, a judge may order that a life sentence should mean life by making a "whole life order."
Murder has carried a mandatory life sentence in England and Wales since capital punishment was suspended in 1965.[SUP][1][/SUP] There is currently no "first degree" or "second degree" murder definition. However, there were two degrees of murder between 1957 and 1965, one carrying the death penalty and one life imprisonment, and there have recently been plans to introduce such a definition.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Life imprisonment is only applicable to defendants aged 21 or over. Those aged between 18 and 20 are sentenced to custody for life. Those aged under 18 are sentenced to detention during Her Majesty's pleasure for murder, or detention for life for other crimes where life imprisonment is the sentence for adults. However people under 21 may not be sentenced to a whole life order, and so must become eligible for parole.
In addition to the sentences mentioned above are two other kinds of life sentence, imprisonment for public protection (for those over 18) and detention for public protection (for those under 18). These are for defendants whose crimes are not serious enough to merit a normal life sentence, but who are a danger to the public and so should not be released until the Parole Board decides they no longer represent a risk. Consequently, a whole life order is not available for either of these sentences. (See Criminal Justice Act 2003 for details.)

 

[Orange Tabby]

I wonder if SH's QC will bring in anything in mitigation about her being controlled or abused by NM

Does this mean that before the judge renders his sentences that the barristers have the opportunity to present arguments to him?

Do the prosecution get to argue before the judge in favor of the various aggravating circumstances that would support very stiff sentences?

Or are all of these matters expected to have been placed before the judge already in the form of written arguments?

American courts can really make a meal of sentencing, as it can oftentimes be months after a guilty verdict before sentences are laid down.

 

[skibaboo]

Where?

IMO there is no right or wrong way to deal with something like this:

If they want to talk to the press that's OK
If they don't want to talk to the press thats OK
If they want to keep Becky's room as it was that's OK
If they want to redecorate it how she would have liked it to be that's OK

Exactly! Whatever and whichever, that's OK. You can't change the past, however they choose to process this and whatever they choose to do, nobody else is in their shoes. Like Beckys grandad said, they are still living a nightmare.

I feel absolute gash today, almost hungover. Emotionally drained. I sat and watched the interviews again, I have huge respect for their strength and unity. They say you "shouldn't judge unless you've walked in their shoes" it's got to be worse than hell. DG said when they heard Becky had been found they "just wanted to die"

I'm heartbroken for them.

 

[Tortoise]

Does this mean that before the judge renders his sentences that the barristers have the opportunity to present arguments to him?

Do the prosecution get to argue before the judge in favor of the various aggravating circumstances that would support very stiff sentences?

Or are all of these matters expected to have been placed before the judge already in the form of written arguments?

American courts can really make a meal of sentencing, as it can oftentimes be months after a guilty verdict before sentences are laid down.

I think the judge asks for reports from QCs to be emailed or put on his desk so he can read them before he enters the courtroom.

However, the QCs (barristers) do present their arguments to him in court, and I suppose that gives them the opportunity to respond additionally to what the other side has put. Yes, the prosecution do get to argue aggravating circumstances.

 

[jessie]

Life means that after a minimum term set by the judge then the guilty party can be considered for parole

Those with a whole life sentence will never be considered for parole

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Doesn't parole (is that the same as being 'let out on licence?) require an admission and acceptance of guilt before it will be considered?

 

[Wallace]

I guess that they thought they would tackle it head on. If they didn't speak to the press then I'm sure someone else would have. Least they could show their side of things...

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Well they certainly got to put their spin on things.

 

[Wallace]

preventing burial must be a big one too I should think.

Not as big as you would think.

 

[Wallace]

Doesn't parole (is that the same as being 'let out on licence?) require an admission and acceptance of guilt before it will be considered?

No that's a myth as far as the UK is concerned.

Just under a third of parolees in the UK maintain their claims of innocence.

 

[sar2them1984]

Doesn't parole (is that the same as being 'let out on licence?) require an admission and acceptance of guilt before it will be considered?

Yes that generally is one of criteria although not essential, along with other things such as behaviour in prison etc. Below a good guide

https://www.gov.uk/getting-parole/parole-board-hearing

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[Warwicks]

I think perhaps AG and DG have been advised to interview etc now. There is bound to be a sh**storm in the media over the weekend, especially on Sunday, and the pressure and intrusion to get them to talk would have been interminable.
I would not be surprised if Crown Hill were quietly closed up by Friday night and AG and DG were not somewhere in seclusion in the south west for the foreseeable future, hopefully with access to counselling.

 

[Alyce]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_England_and_Wales

Many thanks for this Tortoise.

So SH qualifies for Whole of Life by one week.

I somehow dont think NM will get Whole of Life ( although I want him to ) but then I'm the person who thought the verdicts might not come in until next week, so am probably not the most accurate guesser here.

I do however, see him getting 40 years at least, as he seems to have no mitigating factors which could reduce his term.......and plenty of aggravating ones to be added to his 30 year starting point.

I am more fearful with SH. I do believe she is equally culpable and far more dangerous than NM. I would not like to see an easy sentence for her which would allow her to be back on the streets in 10 years or so.

As for KD, I have said before I think he will get a suspended sentence and likewise JP.

 

[sar2them1984]

I think perhaps AG and DG have been advised to interview etc now. There is bound to be a sh**storm in the media over the weekend, especially on Sunday, and the pressure and intrusion to get them to talk would have been interminable.
I would not be surprised if Crown Hill were quietly closed up by Friday night and AG and DG were not somewhere in seclusion in the south west for the foreseeable future, hopefully with access to counselling.

I don't know yanno they are pretty adamant that they are going to remain at Crown hill.

I'm rather suprised more sordid details about NM/SH hasn't been released by anybody yet..sure seems like they kept themselves to themselves

Just on a completely different topic - DG said this morning/yesterday's interview can't remember which - that he had lost some family members who couldn't get past him standing by AG... I *think* that JG, the uncle who was so supportive and one of the spokesmen for the family is one of them. He was very public and united with the family until just after NM was charged - his fb profiles were then deactivated, the family don't mention him in any way any my more and he hasn't been at the trial..it's so very sad that one of the initial people to support DG is no longer united with the family, for whatever reasons they may have, they all had a common goal - Justice for Becky

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[sar2them1984]

Many thanks for this Tortoise.

So SH qualifies for Whole of Life by one week.

I somehow dont think NM will get Whole of Life ( although I want him to ) but then I'm the person who thought the verdicts might not come in until next week, so am probably not the most accurate guesser here.

I do however, see him getting 40 years at least, as he seems to have no mitigating factors which could reduce his term.......and plenty of aggravating ones to be added to his 30 year starting point.

I am more fearful with SH. I do believe she is equally culpable and far more dangerous than NM. I would not like to see an easy sentence for her which would allow her to be back on the streets in 10 years or so.

As for KD, I have said before I think he will get a suspended sentence and likewise JP.

Not sure about KD as he has previous...

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[leah]

Think I may be misunderstanding something. Was it wrong, and people are complaining about AG and DG making a statement? The same with Becky's mom and brother? A lot of times after a trial the family will speak or have a representative speak. Is this something that usually doesn't happen after a trial in England? And with Becky's bedroom, I can't recall a family decorating it the way the victim would have wanted it, but will keep the bedroom of a victim just like it was when the person was alive. I sure hope the family isn't being disrespected. My two cents on the listening to your child, Becky was a teen, and I remember when my two girls were teens, the youngest one. She would come up with all kinds of stuff, and we didn't believe some of it, and thought it was for attention. She was and still is the storyteller. Could that be what AG and DG thought? That Becky was dramatizing and maybe embellishing things for attention? Her family will be would of, should of, until the day they pass, human nature, I guess. AG and DG look so sickly, hope the family all gathers around and help each other.

 

[Crazy Mama]

Totally agree. As far as we know, NM and SH had no injuries ( although they were never checked ? ) whereas Becky had 40.
I don't believe that NM, with his size, health issues etc, would have been capable of inflicting this level of injury on his own.
Even if the fibro were a made up ailment, I don't believe the Jury were told this ?
Therefore, they were presumably weighing this into the evidence and it would be a huge factor for me, versus the level of injury NM would have been able to cause to Becky.
I do hope SH is given the maximum possible sentence. Like you Tortoise, I feel she is far more dangerous than NM.

Don't forget in the shop she was pulling her sleeves over her hands. Perhaps she was hiding injuries.