GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #4

[Lady Demelza]

They were doing a fingertip search...not searching for fingertips

Sorry catching up, just saw your reply.

 

[Supernovae]

BBM

True enough. I certainly am not a legal expert in either the US or the UK. This case (and the great members who are posting) is, however, giving me more specific education on British law. That said, I think that in the US, one can be charged with murder even if it wasn't their hands (or weapon) that did the deed but that they were intimately involved in the situation.

In the UK it is possible to be charged with conspiracy to murder or alternatively murder as a joint enterprise if you didn't deal the final blow but were involved in the events that led up to the murder:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/assets/uploads/files/Joint_Enterprise.pdf

That none of the accused other than NM were charged as such, suggests that they weren't involved before the fact or at least it cannot be proved that they were.

 

[Lady Demelza]

No Airbus is in Filton, which is 6/7 miles away from Avonmouth.

I think people were questioning where the two people worked not in relation to where work/employment was in Avonmouth. It would appear that 2 of the arrested work at Airbus, Filton. I have heard that a statement is being prepared for staff. My husband is a manager at another Airbus site, although this should probably be ruled as rumour re: the statement.

 

[mayelf]

Obviously these cases always turn out completely different than I could have ever imagined but I have two varying scenarios popping up in my head.

1, What if Nathan invited Rebecca to hang out with him, since she couldn't get ahold of her boyfriend and she was probably bored. She might have thought it would be fun to hang out with the "older" group with Nathan and his friends. I know I did when I was her age. But what if it turned into some sort of group mentality teasing thing and eventually it escalates. If Nathan did the sole killing but the others were present would they have the same charges they have now or would they be accomplices and have bigger charges?

2, I am really stuck on group mentality. I know a lot of bad things have happened in history because of groups of people getting together. If the others weren't present during the actual death then I would imagine Nathan used manipulating words to get the group on his side. For instance, he could have said he accidentally ran into her with his car and she died but he needed some time to figure things out. I am not a manipulator so I don't know what he could have said exactly. They store the body at the house. Like someone said, they panic and cut her up to hide the body once searches of homes begin since they are already knee deep in it.

Obviously we don't even know 100% that NM is guilty, nothing has been proven 100% yet, since we barely know anything at this point. If he pleads not guilty, will we hear what his defense is?

Well despite what happened and why, I am saddened by not only the tragedy of losing such a precious 16 year old girl, but also these young children being displaced without their moms and dads. For the sake of the children I hope not all the charges are accurate. It's really heart breaking.

 

[mayelf]

In the UK it is possible to be charged with conspiracy to murder or alternatively murder as a joint enterprise if you didn't deal the final blow but were involved in the events that led up to the murder:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/assets/uploads/files/Joint_Enterprise.pdf

That none of the accused other than NM were charged as such, suggests that they weren't involved before the fact or at least it cannot be proved that they were.

Ah posted just before you said this, answers some of my questions, thanks for this.

 

[masekwm]

Ok - Becky came home and went upstairs and showered.

Step Mum went to hospital.

Mum doesn't need to be in the house to know that she showered, over things would show that - use of shampoo, wet towels, etc.

If Nathan worked nights, he may go round to see mum for breakfast or just to drop things in. In the UK some people are collected for hospital appointments. So she goes off to hospital and he is left in the house, whilst she is in the shower.

He takes his chance to assault her and she is killed in the house. Loaded into the Zafira on the drive (where the Land Rover is parked).

He drives to his friends mums run down house, where she is partially dismembered.

He returns home and tells girlfriend he's been out making £ with the boys, but obviously due to criminality can't tell the police the truth so she covers for him.

The body lays in the other place partially cut up, when they are arrested. The others are told of the body by one of the 4 charged today, so agree to get rid of it but fail to do so.

JMO.

 

[mrazda71]

Ok - Becky came home and went upstairs and showered.

Step Mum went to hospital.

Mum doesn't need to be in the house to know that she showered, over things would show that - use of shampoo, wet towels, etc.

If Nathan worked nights, he may go round to see mum for breakfast or just to drop things in. In the UK some people are collected for hospital appointments. So she goes off to hospital and he is left in the house, whilst she is in the shower.

He takes his chance to assault her and she is killed in the house. Loaded into the Zafira on the drive (where the Land Rover is parked).

He drives to his friends mums run down house, where she is partially dismembered.

He returns home and tells girlfriend he's been out making £ with the boys, but obviously due to criminality can't tell the police the truth so she covers for him.

The body lays in the other place partially cut up, when they are arrested. The others are told of the body by one of the 4 charged today, so agree to get rid of it but fail to do so.

JMO.

Yup I'd say that's the most plausible scenario I've seen of late

 

[MamaJoJo]

It'll be interesting to see how close to the truth you are, masekwm.

 

[jigzy]

There likely was no music to turn off or door to slam. Consider the source of the comment. It didn't come from her step-mom, who had already left. And it didn't come from Becky.

IF I recall correctly, we have NEVER been informed by LE or MSM WHO was in the house that morning (apart from RW returning, and AG). Those other people might have left before RW, and the music off and door slam comment might have come from the next door neighbour for all we know. Just saying.

 

[Kaly99]

Ok - Becky came home and went upstairs and showered.

Step Mum went to hospital.

Mum doesn't need to be in the house to know that she showered, over things would show that - use of shampoo, wet towels, etc.

If Nathan worked nights, he may go round to see mum for breakfast or just to drop things in. In the UK some people are collected for hospital appointments. So she goes off to hospital and he is left in the house, whilst she is in the shower.

He takes his chance to assault her and she is killed in the house. Loaded into the Zafira on the drive (where the Land Rover is parked).

He drives to his friends mums run down house, where she is partially dismembered.

He returns home and tells girlfriend he's been out making £ with the boys, but obviously due to criminality can't tell the police the truth so she covers for him.

The body lays in the other place partially cut up, when they are arrested. The others are told of the body by one of the 4 charged today, so agree to get rid of it but fail to do so.

JMO.

That's pretty close to what I was thinking too... One question, which is his friend's mother's rundown house? Is it one of those that was searched?

My theory would only differ with regard to when the body was taken to KD's house. The police giving 22nd Feb as the date suggests to me that at least some of the four accused told them that's when the bags arrived at the house. That would make sense, in that NM could've done it with their help over the weekend, and avoided all the police activity which doesn't seem to have begun in earnest until the 23rd (the first appeal by the family; the first police appeal was a day later). After that point it would've been very risky to be running around with body parts, especially for NM who was increasingly suspected anyway.

 

[jigzy]

Just curious: prior to the murder charge, the 'kidnap' thing - what evidence and where was it that led LE to think that RW was kidnapped? Any thoughts?

 

[emlou1980]

Ok - Becky came home and went upstairs and showered.

Step Mum went to hospital.

Mum doesn't need to be in the house to know that she showered, over things would show that - use of shampoo, wet towels, etc.

If Nathan worked nights, he may go round to see mum for breakfast or just to drop things in. In the UK some people are collected for hospital appointments. So she goes off to hospital and he is left in the house, whilst she is in the shower.

He takes his chance to assault her and she is killed in the house. Loaded into the Zafira on the drive (where the Land Rover is parked).

He drives to his friends mums run down house, where she is partially dismembered.

He returns home and tells girlfriend he's been out making £ with the boys, but obviously due to criminality can't tell the police the truth so she covers for him.

The body lays in the other place partially cut up, when they are arrested. The others are told of the body by one of the 4 charged today, so agree to get rid of it but fail to do so.

JMO.

I also believe something along these lines happened. It's that comment on Facebook from her dad about her time of the month. I believe there was evidence found in her house that she had been sexually assaulted. This would explain why the uncle mentioned that things can happen on impulse during the tv appeal. I believe NW was under suspicion right from the start and her dad's comment was maybe an appeal in some way to SH.

 

[babame]

I'm thinking back to the yellow sign outside BW door with regards to chemicals (luminol) maybe everything took place here and that's why the family haven't been back?

 

[jigzy]

Karl Demetrius, 29 and his girlfriend, Jaydene Parsons, 23, were charged with assisting an offender after the 16-year-old's cut up remains were found in their home.

IN their home? I kinda thought the remains were found in the yard/garden, not inside their home. If this is true then I can only think that the process of refrigeration/freezing must have taken place - a cadaver in a house for several days? Jmo.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rial-date-set-stepbrother-accused-murder.html

 

[fryingpan]

Didn't her boyfriend live close to the murderer?

Maybe she went over to her boyfriends house and he wasn't home so she went to their house to wait. It's someone she knew and felt comfortable around. That way she didn't have to stand around outside until her boyfriend came home.

Whenever she received the "bae" text I believe she was being raped/murdered at the time.

I think both NM and SP were home and involved.

I wonder how long it'll be before drugs and or alcohol is blamed?

Rebecca Watts will never see another day but the who killed her will live a full life.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Finally had time to catch up with some of this sickening case.

I'm sorry but anyone capable of chopping up a body is just psychotic, psychopathic, utterly mad. And anyway who knows about it but does nothing has to be a immoral sociopath. I have zero sympathy with anyone with any knowledge of what happened, they should ALL be locked up.

(sorry if this offends but I am CROSS!)

 

[Cherwell]

I also believe something along these lines happened. It's that comment on Facebook from her dad about her time of the month. I believe there was evidence found in her house that she had been sexually assaulted. This would explain why the uncle mentioned that things can happen on impulse during the tv appeal. I believe NW was under suspicion right from the start and her dad's comment was maybe an appeal in some way to SH.

So do I. But if he was known to have been in the house (although I take jigzy's point that it wasn't disclosed who was there), it's difficult to see how an alibi could have helped. In fact since Becky was missing for a considerable time, how would anyone know the crucial time when an alibi would be needed?

 

[Lady Demelza]

That's pretty close to what I was thinking too... One question, which is his friend's mother's rundown house? Is it one of those that was searched?

My theory would only differ with regard to when the body was taken to KD's house. The police giving 22nd Feb as the date suggests to me that at least some of the four accused told them that's when the bags arrived at the house. That would make sense, in that NM could've done it with their help over the weekend, and avoided all the police activity which doesn't seem to have begun in earnest until the 23rd (the first appeal by the family; the first police appeal was a day later). After that point it would've been very risky to be running around with body parts, especially for NM who was increasingly suspected anyway.

I had assumed the missing reprint to LE was the 19/20th and the missing appeals we're ongoing from well before the 23rd? That was pretty far in to the missing appeals wasn't it? Please correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[Bluey]

IF I recall correctly, we have NEVER been informed by LE or MSM WHO was in the house that morning (apart from RW returning, and AG). Those other people might have left before RW, and the music off and door slam comment might have come from the next door neighbour for all we know. Just saying.

I have found this in regard to the music off and door slam comment ....

“We know Rebecca was at home that morning. We believe she went out during the late morning and left the house and that really is the last sighting we have got of her,” he said.

He refused to comment on speculation that no one saw her leave the home and just heard her music turned off and the front door shut.

Other family members were in the Crown Hill home at the time, but DI Ocone declined to comment on who was there and said: “There is nothing more I can tell you about that at the moment”.

from here http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Missin...-rule-murder/story-26095760-detail/story.html

I'm going to go look and see if I can find where this 'music off door slam' has come from that the Police declined to comment on

 

[Lady Demelza]

That's pretty close to what I was thinking too... One question, which is his friend's mother's rundown house? Is it one of those that was searched?

My theory would only differ with regard to when the body was taken to KD's house. The police giving 22nd Feb as the date suggests to me that at least some of the four accused told them that's when the bags arrived at the house. That would make sense, in that NM could've done it with their help over the weekend, and avoided all the police activity which doesn't seem to have begun in earnest until the 23rd (the first appeal by the family; the first police appeal was a day later). After that point it would've been very risky to be running around with body parts, especially for NM who was increasingly suspected anyway
.

I had assumed the missing report to LE was the 19/20th and the missing appeals we're ongoing from well before the 23rd? That was pretty far in to the missing appeals wasn't it? Please correct me if I'm wrong?