GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #7

[Clio]

To eliminate this possibility, the cops would need to turn that whole house upside down and did forensics on the uncluttered house (i.e. removed all the clutter outside of the house). I'm not sure if they did that or not.

Yes they did.

The judge had earlier warned them that police had completely emptied the house as part of their inquiries and although everything had been returned, it may not be in the same position or even the same room as before. The bath had been removed by the police during their investigation and had since been returned but not sealed in properly.

In addition, the house has also been subjected to extensive forensic testing, so jurors had to wear protective gloves and disposable overshoes while inside the property.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ury-visit-alleged-murder-scene-accuseds-house

 

[squish]

I haven't been able to think of another innocent reason for its removal either. Unless they thought that by draining the body of as much fluid as possible would facilitate their task in some way or I don't know, prevent faster decomposition?

I think that's why she was stabbed after her death, to drain fluids. Not that it would work, you need a circulation for that!

Why indeed did they add salt to the body? You would think they would not want to preserve the body, but maybe they misunderstood its effect.

Yeah they probably misunderstood, or thought it would help with smell or germs or something

Anyway, as for the tampon, it wasn't SH's because she was pregnant. And I remember Becky's father putting out a statement saying it was Becky's 'time of the month' and asking all females to check the underwear of males in their households for blood. I still wonder how he knew that, seems an odd thing for a father to know.

Of course! I forgot Shauna was pregnant. I forgot about the dad's quote too, but I remember now thinking it was incredibly weird at the time. Firstly, as you said, how comes he knows his daughter is on her period? Some girls are talkative about these things, and some girls have problems that are difficult to hide, but we haven't heard anything about medical conditions. Maybe she asked her dad (or he overheard her asking someone else) to buy tampons. Those are the normal reasons I can think of why a dad would know his daughter was on her period.

Since he did for whatever reason know that she was menstruating, it is still odd that he made a statement about it. In his head, when she was still just missing, he was already linking her disappearance with a man harming her and sexual assault (what with the thoughts of her blood being in random men's pants).

I wonder what he knew by then. Had he seen the blood on the doorframes? Had the police told him of their suspicions before they made them public?

 

[Tortoise]

You've got me thinking now squish.

Sorry if anyone finds this distasteful.

The tampon and rigor mortis - how easy would it be to remove a tampon once rigor mortis has set in? body was dismembered while in a state of rigor mortis because Becky's hand was still clenched in a fist. Does this mean it was removed shortly after death, before any dismemberment took place?

 

[Tortoise]

<respectfully snipped>

Since he did for whatever reason know that she was menstruating, it is still odd that he made a statement about it. In his head, when she was still just missing, he was already linking her disappearance with a man harming her and sexual assault (what with the thoughts of her blood being in random men's pants).

I wonder what he knew by then. Had he seen the blood on the doorframes? Had the police told him of their suspicions before they made them public?

Yes I wonder about that too. Although I think once they realised that Becky probably hadn't left home because of an argument say, and hadn't been in touch with any friends or her boyfriend, the prospect of her having come to harm wouldn't be too far from their thoughts.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Yes they did.



http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ury-visit-alleged-murder-scene-accuseds-house

That's good. Some police departments and their forensics teams half *advertiser censored* the investigation and focus on certain areas of obvious interest.

If the bathroom was as clean as the rest of the house (forensically and not figuratively speaking), how does the authorities figure the dismemberment must have happened in the bathroom then? Only the fact the bathroom was the cleanest? Is there residual surface residue or dust in other parts of the house indicating those other parts hasn't been touched and remained cluttered as originally pictured? How do they pin point that location in the bathroom?

Probably leaves either a really well draped area for the disposal, or they did it in another location.

If the male suspect had already confessed to the crime, did he provide a detailed account of his procedures which will allow for cross examination and perhaps holes be poked in this theory?

This has me thinking, they found kitty litter with the body? How much of it? Could the suspects have used kitty litter as a tool to absorb any body fluids spilled from their disposal? For example, they will throw a bunch of soil into a draped bath tub, then do the business there, thus absorbing most of the fluids. And then disposed of the body with the soil.

 

[Callista]

I haven't been able to think of another innocent reason for its removal either. Unless they thought that by draining the body of as much fluid as possible would facilitate their task in some way or I don't know, prevent or aid faster decomposition?

Why indeed did they add salt to the body? You would think they would not want to preserve the body, but maybe they misunderstood its effect.

Anyway, as for the tampon, it wasn't SH's because she was pregnant. And I remember Becky's father putting out a statement saying it was Becky's 'time of the month' and asking all females to check the underwear of males in their households for blood. I still wonder how he knew that, seems an odd thing for a father to know.

I wondered if the tampon may have been ... Expelled naturally from Becky's body after death. I don't want to go into too much graphic detail here but I know it's possible for these types of muscle spasms to occur, as well as the expulsion of gases (like with coffin birth) ... Sorry if too graphic, there's no nice way of saying this!

 

[Gigi-G]

Just a quick thought that I've not seen come up in any thread or updates.
When SH was arrested along with NM, SH was referred to as NMS pregnant girlfriend.
And another referral to SH "expectant with twins then"
As there's been no further mention do we know how far into the pregnancy she was or still is?
I just find it strange that the subject was brought up in the early days of BW investigations. And not since?
Anyone?

 

[Gigi-G]

"Nathan Matthews, 28 and his pregnant girlfriend of six years, Shauna Hoare, 21, are on trial for the murder of the 16-year-old"

As stated by The Mirror.

 

[MissyLDT]

Just a quick thought that I've not seen come up in any thread or updates.
When SH was arrested along with NM, SH was referred to as NMS pregnant girlfriend.
And another referral to SH "expectant with twins then"
As there's been no further mention do we know how far into the pregnancy she was or still is?
I just find it strange that the subject was brought up in the early days of BW investigations. And not since?
Anyone?

This was covered in the last thread I think. She is not currently pregnant and according to the UK and Eire crimes against children Facebook she didn't give birth. What happened is still vague however I believe she was 18 weeks at the time of Becky's murder.

 

[LBB]

Of course! I forgot Shauna was pregnant. I forgot about the dad's quote too, but I remember now thinking it was incredibly weird at the time. Firstly, as you said, how comes he knows his daughter is on her period? Some girls are talkative about these things, and some girls have problems that are difficult to hide, but we haven't heard anything about medical conditions. Maybe she asked her dad (or he overheard her asking someone else) to buy tampons. Those are the normal reasons I can think of why a dad would know his daughter was on her period.

Since he did for whatever reason know that she was menstruating, it is still odd that he made a statement about it. In his head, when she was still just missing, he was already linking her disappearance with a man harming her and sexual assault (what with the thoughts of her blood being in random men's pants).

I wonder what he knew by then. Had he seen the blood on the doorframes? Had the police told him of their suspicions before they made them public?

I personally don't think it was that odd that he knew she was on her period. He or AG may have noticed that there were used tqmpons in the bin (I know some people flush them but you arent meant to in the UK.

Also if my daughter was missing then my brain would be going into overdrive about all the bad things that could have happened and a sexual assault would be one of them.

 

[mrazda71]

Anyway, as for the tampon, it wasn't SH's because she was pregnant. And I remember Becky's father putting out a statement saying it was Becky's 'time of the month' and asking all females to check the underwear of males in their households for blood. I still wonder how he knew that, seems an odd thing for a father to know.

Are you saying it's an odd thing for a father to know his daughter who shares a home with him is on her period?

I don't think it's odd at all, maybe years ago it might be but as the mother of 3 daughters, we're all quite open about our periods and I know we're not so unusual these days. It's not a shameful thing to be kept secret any more and I for one am glad about that.

It could be as simple as Becky complained of period pain or suffered from obvious PMT ...

 

[Dion]

I've been thinking about the lack of blood splatters in the bathroom.

There was plenty of stuff in the house, so perhaps he had a small tent. He could have put a drop cloth on the floor and erected the tent in the bathroom (after temporarily moving out the cooker and what not). That way any splatters would be confined to the drop cloth and tent, which he could have disposed of.

They could have used the bath to package up Becky's body parts.

 

[edgedweller]

I personally don't think it was that odd that he knew she was on her period.....

Also if my daughter was missing then my brain would be going into overdrive about all the bad things that could have happened and a sexual assault would be one of them.

Also Becky may have only told AG, and when she went missing, AG may have passed that info on to DG and police. Personally I would've died before I discussed periods with my dad, but I'm old enough to be Becky's mother [emoji6].
I'm making sure that my sons are not squeamish about such things, but that's by the by.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hexenb]

If Becky had been sexually assaulted would that definitely have been reported to the general public or could they hold back on that information for what ever reason, If the whole reason this happened was a sexually motivated crime what went wrong.

ie If it was just a kidnap to frighten her what the hell was he going to do with her, where would he keep her was he planning to definately kill her after she was used for whatever reason

If it was sexually motivated SH I believe is definitely involved as her fantasies are as sick as his!

Or had he planned just to have a go at her and it went wrong and his temper got the better of him

Sorry for rambling but, something just does not add up with what we know jmo

 

[Tortoise]

Also Becky may have only told AG, and when she went missing, AG may have passed that info on to DG and police. Personally I would've died before I discussed periods with my dad, but I'm old enough to be Becky's mother [emoji6].
I'm making sure that my sons are not squeamish about such things, but that's by the by.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

perhaps it was as simple as finding wrappers in her bin.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm thinking the police probably emptied the house of clutter, performed their forensic analysis of an empty bathroom, and then put everything back after. I remember them saying that one of the stun guns on a downstairs table that looked like a torch had been loaded into their removal van. I doubt the police then forensically examined all the items removed, that would be a mammoth task. Could have been evidence of minute blood spatter they missed in this way.

In the trial where I was a juror I was massively disappointed with the forensic analysis. The police didn't test the victims jacket for the suspects DNA, for instance, they said it was too heavily blood stained. And they put in so many disclaimers, saying things like it is more likely to be the victims blood on X but we can't say for sure it is blood.

That is how I see the evidence we heard yesterday about the mask with SH's DNA. They won't commit, and the defence pounce on that opportunity to say there is a doubt, but forensics say they would expect with that result that SH wore it.

 

[LBB]

.

That is how I see the evidence we heard yesterday about the mask with SH's DNA. They won't commit, and the defence pounce on that opportunity to say there is a doubt, but forensics say they would expect with that result that SH wore it.

but surely if there is doubt and if that DNA is the main evidence then a jury should rightly find a defendant not guilty. To find someone guilty it must be beyond reasonable doubt. If there's other compelling evidence and the DNA evidence just backs this up then fine but otherwise I'm not sure there is strong evidence here of murder (in SH's case).

 

[PrimeSuspect]

If Becky had been sexually assaulted would that definitely have been reported to the general public or could they hold back on that information for what ever reason, If the whole reason this happened was a sexually motivated crime what went wrong.

ie If it was just a kidnap to frighten her what the hell was he going to do with her, where would he keep her was he planning to definately kill her after she was used for whatever reason

If it was sexually motivated SH I believe is definitely involved as her fantasies are as sick as his!

Or had he planned just to have a go at her and it went wrong and his temper got the better of him

Sorry for rambling but, something just does not add up with what we know jmo

That's his defence but the prosecution will attempt to prove the first reason. I also wonder where did NM plan to hold Becky captive? Was this a spur of the moment decision by NM to hurt Becky?
Will his defence counsel raise reasonable doubt that he never intended to kill Becky based on him buying the circular saw etc. to dispose of the body? Does a person prepare the necessary means for disposal before the act of murder?

As others have mentioned, why dismemberment of the body? NM could have cloaked Becky disguised as SH, feeling poorly getting into the car, CCTV might not pick up it wasn't her, drove to the river, and dispose of it.
The only incriminating evidence was his fingerprint in her blood on door frame, but he was present in the house presumably searching for her? He would definately be a suspect because of his previous threats to Becky and conversations with SH about fantasing kidnapping and abusing teenage girls.

Hopefully, in the summing up by his defence counsel, the reasons for all his actions will be satisfactorily presented. I doubt it.

I think everyone especially Becky's family wants the truth, unfortunately these types of crimes it's rarely the case. Every criminal wants to be free or serve a minimum sentence.

 

[Tortoise]

but surely if there is doubt and if that DNA is the main evidence then a jury should rightly find a defendant not guilty. To find someone guilty it must be beyond reasonable doubt. If there's other compelling evidence and the DNA evidence just backs this up then fine but otherwise I'm not sure there is strong evidence here of murder (in SH's case).

The evidence on the mask would relate to the dismembering, not the murder. And I'm sure there is much evidence for the jury to go on that SH would not have been able to live in that house without knowing it contained Becky's body and without knowing about the sawing and packaging and the smell and surfaces being covered, and being involved in the purchase of supplies, and making sure she was out when the police wanted to get in, and the suspicious rekindling of a relationship with her mother at the exact same time.

I agree, we've heard nothing concrete yet to say she was involved in the murder. I'm hoping, if it is true of course that she was involved, that there will be evidence to show it was the physical work of more than one person, with Becky struggling so much and fighting for her survival, covered in bruises on her arms and literally from head to toe and it seems trying to bite the hand that was clamped over her mouth, and with one arm restrained and a hand being held firmly over her mouth and nostrils for a prolonged period, requiring the combined effort of two people to keep her still. I think it was said that it would be very difficult to suffocate her. Sorry for the over long rambling sentence!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Matthews - who claimed he wanted to teach her a lesson for mistreating his mother - and Hoare are then accused of bundling her body in the boot of their Vauxhall Zafira.

He eventually wrote a confession to police claiming he acted alone and cut her into pieces in his bath, the jury has heard.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...srupts-trial/story-28019052-detail/story.html