GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #7

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epiphany said:
How did JI know the packages were soft?

Does this mean he may have seen some of them as they were being placed into the suitcases?


Siobhan Robbins ‏@SiobhanRobbins 30m30 minutes ago

Said the packets were "soft" and "tightly packaged" so that's when they discussed it could be drugs
Click to expand...

I guess he could have unzipped a case to have a look
 
SH must have been going insane when JI was allowed into or somehow entered the home (in the bedroom)!
 
ColourPurple said:
I think JI is the one who is reported as having special needs in the form of ADHD and autism, so possible he's not going to give evidence in court himself



http://www.itv.com/news/west/story/2015-10-09/becky-watts-trial-day-3/
Click to expand...

With regards to Autism, I have a child on the autistic spectrum and he would absolutely help someone out with a job like this unwittingly. My son takes everything literally and believes everything 100% as, for him, lying is wrong, so its a bad thing. (He always tell tales on children in class, as he doesn't get social situations so doesn't realise that children will dislike him for it). For him, being honest is "the law".

So if someone told him that they needed some bags taken somewhere and gave any reason (moving house, taking there to give someone or so on) he would absolutely believe that was the case, and wouldn't even consider looking in the bags to check. He would never move anything for someone if he was told it was drugs or anything illegal though.

Not sure how relevant it is, it just made me realise that someone who is autistic could be very vulnerable around people who are involved in anything illegal.

If
 
Siobhan Robbins ‏@SiobhanRobbins 1h1 hour ago

Says JI said when he went back to Barton Hill the female was crying in the bedroom and telling the man to get out


^^^ O, perhaps this is SH telling JI to get out!!

I had initially thought SH was telling NM to get out
 
epiphany said:
Siobhan Robbins ‏@SiobhanRobbins 1h1 hour ago

Says JI said when he went back to Barton Hill the female was crying in the bedroom and telling the man to get out


^^^ O, perhaps this is SH telling JI to get out!!

I had thought SH was telling NM to get out
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I think it must mean NM, otherwise he wouldn't have said the man I don't think
 
Would explain the argument and crying, if they were the two arguing... but it could also be used by her defence as proof that she only found out at that point or that she thought the packages were part of a robbery haul too and was mad at him for handling stolen goods. Though then of course she'd have to admit to actually knowing about the bags which she hasn't done so far.
 
ColourPurple said:
Im wondering if his special needs are going to be used as a defence, something similar to diminshed responsibility?
Click to expand...

I would have thought it would be when it comes to mitigation when sentencing (if he's found guilty).
 
Becky Watts trial: Ireland thought he was moving items from a 'robbery'


Another housemate of James Ireland said he had a conversation with the accused in a pub, where he recounted what had happened.

Richard Whitton told the court Ireland believed he was moving items to do with a robbery, and thought he was getting around £5,000 for helping.
He said his friend just wanted some stuff moved, something to do with a robbery and they wanted some stuff moved.

He presumed it was a robbery because whoever it was thougt they were going to get raided.

It thought it was odd because you wouldn't get told if you were going to get raided. I thought it was a load of rubbish.

– RICHARD WHITTON
Mr Whitton told the court Ireland had said he had got into the work van and driven down to Barton Hill, where he "moved the stuff".
He just said it was from a robbery, he presumed it was worth about £20,000 and he was going to be getting £5,000 for it.

He had been told to just get rid of it.

– RICHARD WHITTON
But, Mr Whitton said, once he had handled the packages his opinion changed to thinking he may be moving drugs.

He said at one point Ireland gestured with his hands as to how big the packages had been, holding his hands about a foot apart.
He said the packages were soft, and we discussed it wouldn't be electrical stuff if they were soft. That's when the conversation turned to drugs.

He said they were tightly packaged.

– RICHARD WHITTON
Under cross examination Mr Whitton conceded that during the conversation, at the Miles public house, in Avonmouth, he believed it was "typical Jamie telling one of his stories" in an attempt "to impress" him.

He said he had been skeptical, and the conversation seemed "unreal" to him.
 
bos said:
Bizarre that Southmead mentioned, inclined to think this is a bit of Chinese whispers as the CCTV spotted van moving between CML and Barton Court.

Back onto the subject of NM and SH possibly dumping any plastic/tape used as protection in dismemberment, I'm curious as to how they travelled to and from SH's mother's house on the days subsequent to their first visit. We've heard they drove there and got a lift back with a "friend" on the Sunday. I seem to recall on the day they were arrested that neighbours were telling the press that the Zafira had been parked in the street for a few days?
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BBM someone else told the court that NM & SH were picked up from her Mum's at Southmead then taken to Cotton Mill to collect bags. I think perhaps witness is just slightly muddled at the order of things and where they happened. He is only 're-telling' a conversation with JI so perhaps at the time didn't make too much effort to remember it as it wasn't important to him. This is probably going to be helpful to JI and SH from what is being said. MOO.
 
Pity he didn't mention where the bags and cases were in the house when he helped collect them. Bathroom?
 
ColourPurple said:
Im wondering if his special needs are going to be used as a defence, something similar to diminshed responsibility?
Click to expand...

LBB said:
I would have thought it would be when it comes to mitigation when sentencing (if he's found guilty).
Click to expand...

Yes, I would have thought it was a matter to be taken into consideration for sentencing. I can't see how he can possibly be found not guilty since he seems to have freely admitted that he knew he was assisting in something illegal.
 
YidArmyRach said:
With regards to Autism, I have a child on the autistic spectrum and he would absolutely help someone out with a job like this unwittingly. My son takes everything literally and believes everything 100% as, for him, lying is wrong, so its a bad thing. (He always tell tales on children in class, as he doesn't get social situations so doesn't realise that children will dislike him for it). For him, being honest is "the law".

So if someone told him that they needed some bags taken somewhere and gave any reason (moving house, taking there to give someone or so on) he would absolutely believe that was the case, and wouldn't even consider looking in the bags to check. He would never move anything for someone if he was told it was drugs or anything illegal though.

Not sure how relevant it is, it just made me realise that someone who is autistic could be very vulnerable around people who are involved in anything illegal.

If
Click to expand...

Good points. I was thinking the same but then autistic people can often have a strong sense of justice and of right and wrong that would prevent them even getting involved in moving stolen goods and from what we've heard he was told it was from a robbery with goods worth 20k and he'd get 5k. Perhaps the 5k and thoughts of a holiday were stronger than hsi thoughts that it woudl be wrong. But yes I agree that he could well have not questioned any of the story at all and taken it all at face value , even though to his presumably non autistic friend it just didn't ring true.
 
[h=2]Becky Watts trial: Ireland thought he was moving items from a 'robbery'[/h]Another housemate of James Ireland said he had a conversation with the accused in a pub, where he recounted what had happened.
Richard Whitton told the court Ireland believed he was moving items to do with a robbery, and thought he was getting around £5,000 for helping.

He said his friend just wanted some stuff moved, something to do with a robbery and they wanted some stuff moved.
He presumed it was a robbery because whoever it was thougt they were going to get raided.
It thought it was odd because you wouldn't get told if you were going to get raided. I thought it was a load of rubbish.
​
– RICHARD WHITTON


Mr Whitton told the court Ireland had said he had got into the work van and driven down to Barton Hill, where he "moved the stuff".

He just said it was from a robbery, he presumed it was worth about £20,000 and he was going to be getting £5,000 for it.
He had been told to just get rid of it.
​
– RICHARD WHITTON


But, Mr Whitton said, once he had handled the packages his opinion changed to thinking he may be moving drugs.
He said at one point Ireland gestured with his hands as to how big the packages had been, holding his hands about a foot apart.

He said the packages were soft, and we discussed it wouldn't be electrical stuff if they were soft. That's when the conversation turned to drugs.
He said they were tightly packaged.
​
– RICHARD WHITTON


Under cross examination Mr Whitton conceded that during the conversation, at the Miles public house, in Avonmouth, he believed it was "typical Jamie telling one of his stories" in an attempt "to impress" him.
He said he had been skeptical, and the conversation seemed "unreal" to him.
http://www.itv.com/news/west/story/2015-10-20/becky-watts-trial-day-11/



 
Becky Watts trial: James Ireland chatted about 'moving stuff' to friends
A housemate of James Ireland says he chatted to him about "moving some stuff" the night after Becky's body was allegedly moved.

Simon Knight told the court that he had had a conversation with Ireland, known to his friends as Jamie, where he had told him one of his friends had had a phone call while at work asking them to "go move some stuff".

Ireland, he said, would "do anything for money" so agreed to help his friend. The pair took a van from their work, at British Areospace in Avonmouth, and drove to Barton Hill, Mr Knight said.

He said to me he went to pick up the stuff from Barton Hill. He told me when he got there he saw a male and a female.

– SIMON KNIGHT

Mr Knight then recounted to the court how then started loading bags into the van.
He said he was putting some bags into the van, then he drove off. He said he took them to a house, he said he unloaded the bags and drove it back to the house.

He said there was one person in the van with him, he didn't say who, just that it was the male, the person's whose house he had gone to, that was my understanding.

– SIMON KNIGHT

When the job was done, he said 'the male' invited inside the address in Barton Hill, where they had a cigarette together, before Ireland went back to work.
Mr Knight told the court that Ireland would do "anything for money", so if someone had offered money to move things, he would have taken it at face value for the money only.

Under cross examination Mr Knight said he believed Ireland had never met the people he had helped before, and could not recall any details about them.
Click to expand...

http://www.itv.com/news/west/story/2015-10-20/becky-watts-trial-day-11/

So Nathan was in the car with him?
 
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