UK - Sabina Nessa, 28, found murdered in park, SE London, 18 Sep 2021 *Arrest*

[JosephineRobert]

I have had the same thoughts as you about the car. Would the police use the term 'have access to ' if the car had been previously stolen therefore the police not being able to trace the person currently driving it?
Given the amount of cameras in London I would have thought any journey taken could be tracked .

I think it is possible that the police have an idea who he might be.

Yes I would have thought it would be hard to leave that area by car without getting caught on various cameras (Kidbrooke Park Road is the cut through from the South Circular to the A2, and the obvious route back towards Lewisham would be the A20 - all of those roads are heavily camera-d up!).

But who knows… There are no doubt rat runs through residential side streets.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

From what we have from the police themselves I suppose it's not impossible yet that he carried her to a car and placed her in the park during the night.

If this is a case of a stalker / pest / rejected man its likely she mentioned this to someone

I'm still reluctant to think along the lines of a contract type killing or multiple people involved but its obviously not impossible

Given the slightly odd timings in the case that we don’t have full visibility on — Sabina apparently attacked at 8.30pm (and the fact that time has been disclosed makes me think they have some camera evidence) but not found until sometime the next day, perhaps as late as 5.30pm, it seems possible the killer took her overnight in the car and brought her back to the park to try to make it look like a more random crime. I don’t see how the body could be put there in daylight though. Does anyone know if this is a park with gates that is locked overnight or is it left open?

 

[Marulinka]

Thank you for the insight. It makes sense. Sexual motive cannot be discounted just because phusical sexual assault sid not take place. I find it interesting that she was placed in a park and covered by leaves. A WS member said that in one of the posts above...could that be an indication of anything?

There is no fixed rule on this, so we don’t know. Sometimes this is disclosed early on and sometimes not, depends what is felt helpful for the investigation. I also note (not to be too graphic) some sexual gratification killers don’t sexually assault their victim or if they do, don’t actually go so far as to rape them, but derive sexual pleasure from the killing aspect itself & thinking about it later, so that can still be a motivation without evidence of rape.

 

[Skigh]

Given the slightly odd timings in the case that we don’t have full visibility on — Sabina apparently attacked at 8.30pm (and the fact that time has been disclosed makes me think they have some camera evidence) but not found until sometime the next day, perhaps as late as 5.30pm, it seems possible the killer took her overnight in the car and brought her back to the park to try to make it look like a more random crime. I don’t see how the body could be put there in daylight though. Does anyone know if this is a park with gates that is locked overnight or is it left open?

Why would anyone risk moving her from the park only to return her to the same place later?
I think it was just by chance she was not discovered earlier.

 

[Sherlockhames]

Completely thinking out loud here but on the basis the stalking theory had some legs to it could it be someone she has met through work? Supplier to the school? Parent who has spotted her at the school gate (but not necessarily a parent of a child in her class). Even someone local-ish who maybe saw her at the same time everyday so was able to track her? The problem with theory as I think has already been mentioned is that unless she was aware of it, it will be exceptionally difficult to track him. Expect that if it IS a stalker then I imagine some level of painstaking scrolling back through cctv/ANPR might be able to spot the same person/car over a historic period which might prove more fruitful in terms of tracking his onward movements?

It seems so brazen to attack so close to her flat. But perhaps he wasn’t aware of a date but was just regularly waiting outside her flat, but on this occasion spotted her somewhat “dressed up” as it were, for a date. So decided to strike in that moment? He waited a few seconds to check no one else was around, but he maybe already knew she wasn’t about to be followed by a partner (who might have just been locking up or something).

I have also been wondering whether or not the item in the hands of the man on the cctv is some sort of “trophy” from her, a mask she was wearing/carrying perhaps, or a shawl/scarf to keep the chill off? Could be the reason the police haven’t released any info on her clothing (although if they have the attack on CCTV then they don’t need to release this info as they can accurately surmise she was not spotted by anyone as she was not walking alone for any length of time so they are not going to put unnecessary information into the public domain). All JMO - trying to figure out the sequence of events, but also the reasoning.

It doesn’t seem like it had a sexual motive, but equally the covering of the body suggests some kind of care taken over the body which would be strange for a “hit” type action because why take the risk of having around any longer than necessary over a dead body once that deed is done. That is the bit that doesn’t add up to me. If it was completely dispassionate wouldn’t the perpetrator just do the deed and leave?

It’s all so baffling. but I really hope that cctv man is found soon.

(And again - big up to CCTV surveillance or the police would be nowhere).

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Why would anyone risk moving her from the park only to return her to the same place later?
I think it was just by chance she was not discovered earlier.

Sorry if I misunderstand but I don’t mean moving her from the park, I mean:

— attacked on doorstep
— taken in car for a time
— left in park at some point

But not taken from the park and returned. There are no sightings of her in the park, right? That’s where she was found and where she was assumed to be walking through but we don’t know what time she got there. Perhaps she didn’t walk through there but was left there. That may be too much of a coincidence if that was her expected walking route too though but could point to someone she knows or someone who knew where she was going.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Completely thinking out loud here but on the basis the stalking theory had some legs to it could it be someone she has met through work? Supplier to the school? Parent who has spotted her at the school gate (but not necessarily a parent of a child in her class). Even someone local-ish who maybe saw her at the same time everyday so was able to track her? The problem with theory as I think has already been mentioned is that unless she was aware of it, it will be exceptionally difficult to track him. Expect that if it IS a stalker then I imagine some level of painstaking scrolling back through cctv/ANPR might be able to spot the same person/car over a historic period which might prove more fruitful in terms of tracking his onward movements?

It seems so brazen to attack so close to her flat. But perhaps he wasn’t aware of a date but was just regularly waiting outside her flat, but on this occasion spotted her somewhat “dressed up” as it were, for a date. So decided to strike in that moment? He waited a few seconds to check no one else was around, but he maybe already knew she wasn’t about to be followed by a partner (who might have just been locking up or something).

I have also been wondering whether or not the item in the hands of the man on the cctv is some sort of “trophy” from her, a mask she was wearing/carrying perhaps, or a shawl/scarf to keep the chill off? Could be the reason the police haven’t released any info on her clothing (although if they have the attack on CCTV then they don’t need to release this info as they can accurately surmise she was not spotted by anyone as she was not walking alone for any length of time so they are not going to put unnecessary information into the public domain). All JMO - trying to figure out the sequence of events, but also the reasoning.

It doesn’t seem like it had a sexual motive, but equally the covering of the body suggests some kind of care taken over the body which would be strange for a “hit” type action because why take the risk of having around any longer than necessary over a dead body once that deed is done. That is the bit that doesn’t add up to me. If it was completely dispassionate wouldn’t the perpetrator just do the deed and leave?

It’s all so baffling. but I really hope that cctv man is found soon.

(And again - big up to CCTV surveillance or the police would be nowhere).

I think the “trophy” theory is a good one because the police have specifically mentioned the orange object.

I also agree that the covering with leaves is striking. It doesn’t properly conceal the body, so points against someone really trying to hide what they have done, but at the same time there is something personal and perhaps even a little apologetic about it.

(all my speculation only).

 

[Sherlockhames]

Does anyone know if this is a park with gates that is locked overnight or is it left open?

m
It’s not really a park as such - it’s green space alongside the main road so is not gated and locked. It is surrounded by and open wooden fence, but has no gates as such. It’s more like “common land” than a park.

 

[Sherlockhames]

I think the “trophy” theory is a good one because the police have specifically mentioned the orange object.

I also agree that the covering with leaves is striking. It doesn’t properly conceal the body, so points against someone really trying to hide what they have done, but at the same time there is something personal and perhaps even a little apologetic about it.

(all my speculation only).

I wonder if the police would bring in some kind of forensic psychologist? They might not consider it necessary as they appear to have so much evidence, just not an identity. But if they continue to draw a blank they will need to try to figure out if it IS a stalker. (I just don’t think these sorts of resources are available and brought in immediately- just for the more puzzling cases). It’s just taking them a long time that this seems more and more random…

(The met picked up Wayne Couzens in little less than a week and that was completely random).

 

[Rusty Braincells]

m
It’s not really a park as such - it’s green space alongside the main road so is not gated and locked. It is surrounded by and open wooden fence, but has no gates as such. It’s more like “common land” than a park.

Thank you for the info! — I wasn’t sure if it was one of those spaces, I know the type you mean.

So, to me, this means the killer could have brought her back and put her in that park / open space much later than 8.30pm. This seems unusual behaviour, but not out of the question if he knew Sabina tended to walk through the park and if he was trying to make it look random (or even if he was picking the nearest park to her home). All very much a guess, but I am not sure Sabina made it to the park that night under her own steam at all.

 

[Tortoise]

News from yesterday -


"Police have established a fresh crime scene just yards away from where mourners have gathered to pay tribute to Sabina Nessa in south-east London tonight.

Police established the fresh cordon at around 6.30pm this evening (Friday, September 24), [...]

There are two police vans and two forensics vans parked at the scene this evening (September 24), where forensics have been seen using flashlights and carrying what appear to be evidence bags."

[...] The newly released CCTV video shows a man walking in Pegler Square, SE3, on the evening police believe Sabina was killed.

New crime scene and forensics move in yards away from Sabina Nessa vigil

 

[JosieJo]

Why would anyone risk moving her from the park only to return her to the same place later?
I think it was just by chance she was not discovered earlier.

I was thinking more she was never taken fully into the park at the time of attack...more to a car towards the park

But personally I'd think it more likely they would take her somewhere far more secluded...unless for some sick reasons they were hoping to implicate her "date" or clever enough to make it look like it was random as she walked through the park

 

[Lod76]

Completely thinking out loud here but on the basis the stalking theory had some legs to it could it be someone she has met through work? Supplier to the school? Parent who has spotted her at the school gate (but not necessarily a parent of a child in her class). Even someone local-ish who maybe saw her at the same time everyday so was able to track her? The problem with theory as I think has already been mentioned is that unless she was aware of it, it will be exceptionally difficult to track him. Expect that if it IS a stalker then I imagine some level of painstaking scrolling back through cctv/ANPR might be able to spot the same person/car over a historic period which might prove more fruitful in terms of tracking his onward movements?

It seems so brazen to attack so close to her flat. But perhaps he wasn’t aware of a date but was just regularly waiting outside her flat, but on this occasion spotted her somewhat “dressed up” as it were, for a date. So decided to strike in that moment? He waited a few seconds to check no one else was around, but he maybe already knew she wasn’t about to be followed by a partner (who might have just been locking up or something).

I have also been wondering whether or not the item in the hands of the man on the cctv is some sort of “trophy” from her, a mask she was wearing/carrying perhaps, or a shawl/scarf to keep the chill off? Could be the reason the police haven’t released any info on her clothing (although if they have the attack on CCTV then they don’t need to release this info as they can accurately surmise she was not spotted by anyone as she was not walking alone for any length of time so they are not going to put unnecessary information into the public domain). All JMO - trying to figure out the sequence of events, but also the reasoning.

It doesn’t seem like it had a sexual motive, but equally the covering of the body suggests some kind of care taken over the body which would be strange for a “hit” type action because why take the risk of having around any longer than necessary over a dead body once that deed is done. That is the bit that doesn’t add up to me. If it was completely dispassionate wouldn’t the perpetrator just do the deed and leave?

It’s all so baffling. but I really hope that cctv man is found soon.

(And again - big up to CCTV surveillance or the police would be nowhere).

I think the body hiding as I said before is likely opportunistic. He attacked and no one was around so picked her up headed towards the park planning to place her off the path hoping she wouldn't be discovered till the morning. Place was deserted and he had more time than he had thought so went a bit further with regards to concealment. It gave him 24 hours before the body was even discovered and theoretically he could be out of the country by then.

Obvious question here is why not just wait in the park? It could be of course that he didn't know her intentions that evening or at the very least wasn't aware of the route she would take. To wait specifically outside for her and then take the time to hide the body to give himself more time to get away indicates some sort of "hit" to me anyway. Though I'd not rule anything out as this case doesn't seem typical at all does it?

 

[Tortoise]

Where the police officer is standing in the lit doorway in the third photo above is where the man was captured on cctv.

(IMO)

 

[Sherlockhames]

Thank you for the info! — I wasn’t sure if it was one of those spaces, I know the type you mean.

So, to me, this means the killer could have brought her back and put her in that park / open space much later than 8.30pm. This seems unusual behaviour, but not out of the question if he knew Sabina tended to walk through the park and if he was trying to make it look random (or even if he was picking the nearest park to her home). All very much a guess, but I am not sure Sabina made it to the park that night under her own steam at all.

That is an interesting theory.

I am just trying to figure out the sequence of events in this instance. If you ook at the layout of the land it would strange if his car was parked on Cambert Way (there is no parking along there) and I think the CCTV is from the parking area under Pegler Square. So if he attacked her outside her flat he would have needed to have put her in a vehicle between the flats on Anstell Road and the entrance to the park at Cambert Way (we don’t actually know exactly how far along Anstell Road she lived). Which means he was parked very close to her flat in which case what was he doing walking in the car park area of Pegler Square?

 

[JosieJo]

Where the police officer is standing in the lit doorway in the third photo above is where the man was captured on cctv.

(IMO)

Yes looks very much like it now you point it out

I wonder if they are trying to obtain his dna from somewhere in that area ?

 

[Alyce]

RSBM

IMO whether it is likely to be random depends on whether the CCTV shows, as the Telegraph claimed (seemingly in a leak and not official), Sabina being attacked by someone directly after leaving her flat. I see what you mean, this may just be a video of a random guy turning things over in his hands and looking around outside her flat but there being other video evidence was suggested.

msm reports say that the cctv is from Pegler Square not Astell Road



The newly released CCTV video shows a man walking in Pegler Square, SE3, on the evening Sabina was murdered.


Police investigating Sabina Nessa's death hunt for man in CCTV video

 

[Coach]

Is there any chance that the person who killed Sabina is an unstable an unhinged neighbour who has snapped? Possibly a previous dispute, could it be someone who has mental health issues who has done this irrationally for something such as her playing loud music (I’m not suggesting for a minute she was)? Could it be a stalker who lives near her who has been watching her for sometime (she possibly did or did not know about) and he somehow found out she was going on a date and snapped?

 

[Distant Observer]

My thoughts on mystery man in the video who the police are searching for. Some reports said he was wearing grey jeans. I think this is wrong. To me he looks like he is wearing Lonsdale grey tracksuit bottoms sold in Sports Direct. They are popular with workers in the building trade because of their stretchiness. He does look like a loner. Pulling up his hood does mean he is not wanting to be seen for some reason. My thoughts are he could be Eastern European maybe Polish but I could be wrong. I used to travel regularly to Poland and his dress sense would be fairly typical for a 40 year old male passenger on my Ryanair flight. It would also help to explain why no-one seems to have come forward to identify him. Of course we don't know for sure if he has any connection with the case at all.

 

[Lod76]

Is there any chance that the person who killed Sabina is an unstable an unhinged neighbour who has snapped? Possibly a previous dispute, could it be someone who has mental health issues who has done this irrationally for something such as her playing loud music (I’m not suggesting for a minute she was)? Could it be a stalker who lives near her who has been watching her for sometime (she possibly did or did not know about) and he somehow found out she was going on a date and snapped?

It is possible like many other scenarios but in each of these I would have expected the police to have apprehended the culprit by now. Officially they don't even appear to have a name for the man in the CCTV footage. It seems he went there to kill her to me and then decided to conceal the body perhaps opportunistically as it was quiet and then made his escape not to have been seen or heard of since.