UK - Sabina Nessa, 28, found murdered in park, SE London, 18 Sep 2021 *Arrest*

[Rusty Braincells]

The place doesn't even look that secluded. There are flats all around with a bird's eye view. I'm thinking there must be dozens of witnesses but then no one reported a crime at the time did they? She wasn't even found until a day later. People probably saw it without realising at the time what it was they were actually seeing and will probably come forward if they haven't already that is.

I think this is one reason why the police say report everything that might be relevant even if it doesn’t seem significant to you. A lot of us can be seeing something important to a crime without realizing it. Two people walking down the street having a minor argument can look different later if you know one of them was murdered not long after.

At the same time, even with the view, people tend not to look out of their flat windows at night because there’s not much to look at. If you hear a commotion then you might, if you’re hanging out of your window having a cigarette you might see something, but most people who are home are going to be looking firmly at their TV, phone or reading material at 8.30pm on a Friday. I once witnessed the aftermath of an assault and robbery out of my window but only because I had heard the shouting by the victim after the fact and they’d tried it on the wrong guy who then began to fight back. If Sabina was incapacitated, then possible no-one would have reason to look.

A reminder that even in a big city, a lot can go unseen. Sarah Everard was snatched off the streets at 9.30pm somehow and no-one seems to have seen that or got video of it. In this case, it’s possible that they do already have witnesses who’ve said they saw something, a guy carrying or propping up along the road a girl which they assumed was some kind of drinking issue, but now realize was more sinister; hence the arrest within a week (despite the criticism of the police for various things which can be well-founded at times, I don’t see them as having rested on their laurels on this one, it’s right that people ensured this case got attention but it’s clearly not a case where no work is being done or progress being made at all).

 

[Tortoise]

It seems a mighty coincidence that Sabina was left at a spot which was actually on her route to the date. I think there was some 'intelligence' involved in the planning of this, with the risk of being seen carrying her involved, and not just leaving her where she was struck. The man who attacked her seemingly knew what time she would exit the building, and that she would be going out at all.

 

[JosephineRobert]

I think this is one reason why the police say report everything that might be relevant even if it doesn’t seem significant to you. A lot of us can be seeing something important to a crime without realizing it. Two people walking down the street having a minor argument can look different later if you know one of them was murdered not long after.

At the same time, even with the view, people tend not to look out of their flat windows at night because there’s not much to look at. If you hear a commotion then you might, if you’re hanging out of your window having a cigarette you might see something, but most people who are home are going to be looking firmly at their TV, phone or reading material at 8.30pm on a Friday. I once witnessed the aftermath of an assault and robbery out of my window but only because I had heard the shouting by the victim after the fact and they’d tried it on the wrong guy who then began to fight back. If Sabina was incapacitated, then possible no-one would have reason to look.

A reminder that even in a big city, a lot can go unseen. Sarah Everard was snatched off the streets at 9.30pm somehow and no-one seems to have seen that or got video of it. In this case, it’s possible that they do already have witnesses who’ve said they saw something, a guy carrying or propping up along the road a girl which they assumed was some kind of drinking issue, but now realize was more sinister; hence the arrest within a week (despite the criticism of the police for various things which can be well-founded at times, I don’t see them as having rested on their laurels on this one, it’s right that people ensured this case got attention but it’s clearly not a case where no work is being done or progress being made at all).

I am reminded of the Moira Jones case in Glasgow where she was abducted when she got out of her car and was 'walked' into the park over the road. There's chilling bus cam footage of her and her killer and to a general passerby they just look like they're walking along arm in arm.

 

[Skigh]

It seems a mighty coincidence that Sabina was left at a spot which was actually on her route to the date. I think there was some 'intelligence' involved in the planning of this, with the risk of being seen carrying her involved, and not just leaving her where she was struck. The man who attacked her seemingly knew what time she would exit the building, and that she would be going out at all.

The same thing has crossed my mind ,I agree with you about how coincidental the timing and location of her body .

Either it was done to frame pub man or he was not the friend she assumed him to be and the meeting was set up as part of the plot to kill her.

 

[CuriousObserver1]

It seems too targeted to be random! I can't believe he could have walked with her over her shoulder to and into the park and not be seen, that is crazy!

I think a friend said in one report she had recently split up with someone and was 'excited' about going on a first day with an 'old friend' who might have even been friends with her ex too - although hopefully the ex is totally innocent! IMO the 40 year old arrested was the person she was meant to be meeting as seems obvious that the police would arrest and question to make sure he was not the last person to see her, but then maybe they would just take him in for questioning rather than arresting him? It would be awful if the 'old friend' was actually the male version of a honey-trap!

 

[JosieJo]

It doesn't feel like a full scale planned set up type killing to me. If it was a set up to implicate "the date" the easiest thing would have been to put her back in her flat (not the park) then use her phone to lure the date to her flat ..or something similar

Though I did give up trying to think like a killer years ago as is impossible imo

Having a "hammer" isn't random ..it sounds like anger to me...maybe a row with an ex where she said she was off out to meet a new man

 

[Skigh]

It doesn't feel like a full scale planned set up type killing to me. If it was a set up to implicate "the date" the easiest thing would have been to put her back in her flat (not the park) then use her phone to lure the date to her flat ..or something similar

Though I did give up trying to think like a killer years ago as is impossible imo

Having a "hammer" isn't random ..it sounds like anger to me...maybe a row with an ex where she said she was off out to meet a new man

I think if it was the ex seen on cctv attacking her with a hammer he would be charged by now. If he was involved I imagine he made sure he had a watertight alibi for the Friday evening .

 

[Tortoise]

The same thing has crossed my mind ,I agree with you about how coincidental the timing and location of her body .

Either it was done to frame pub man or he was not the friend she assumed him to be and the meeting was set up as part of the plot to kill her.

That's exactly where my thoughts are going - that she was set up and 'date man' was most likely involved in the planning. I think we're okay to say that within TOS since we're not actually referring to anyone by name.

 

[MrsWatson]

I'm wondering, if the ex is involved, and the involvement of more than one person, if there is something the ex was threatened by? Did Sabina have some sort of damaging information about him that he was scared of her releasing? Shady dealings of some sort? Just going by previous intimate partner cases, those are usually one person jobs. If he was involved in something sketchy, likely others were as well?

And obviously premeditated, because who is out walking around with a hammer at 8:30 on a Friday night?

MOO

 

[JosieJo]

I think if it was the ex seen on cctv attacking her with a hammer he would be charged by now. If he was involved I imagine he made sure he had a watertight alibi for the Friday evening .

I honestly don't know what to think with the little we know its all very odd at the moment...a hammer seems premeditated.. yet carrying her over the park on his shoulder seems panicked .. I know they do sometimes use the time allowed for questioning before charge even when they have their "man" .. but who knows

 

[Skigh]

I honestly don't know what to think with the little we know its all very odd at the moment...a hammer seems premeditated.. yet carrying her over the park on his shoulder seems panicked .. I know they do sometimes use the time allowed for questioning before charge even when they have their "man" .. but who knows

It does appear odd at the moment. The fact that more than one person appears to be involved at the moment leads me to believe it was not an off the cuff attack after someone lost their temper,there seems to me that some planning was involved.
It was only a short distance from her flat to the park,so perhaps not too great a risk to carry her there.

 

[Scorpiette]

So SN was hit on the head by a large heavy object. I'm perplexed that the post mortem was inconclusive if this is the case?

 

[Alyce]

So SN was hit on the head by a large heavy object. I'm perplexed that the post mortem was inconclusive if this is the case?

Possibly the police are holding back on full details at the moment. Julia James PM was similar wording initially.

 

[JuicyLucy]

So SN was hit on the head by a large heavy object. I'm perplexed that the post mortem was inconclusive if this is the case?

It may not be the only injury she had, in which case it might not be straightforward establishing which one was the cause of death.

JMO

 

[Sarahlou]

It may not be the only injury she had, in which case it might not be straightforward establishing which one was the cause of death.

JMO

Agreed. The blow to the head might have knocked her out, but it's possible that might not have been what actually killed her.

 

[Skigh]

Five unanswered questions amid hunt for Sabina Nessa's killer as CCTV released


Have arrests been made?
A man in his 40s was arrested on suspicion of murder at an address in Lewisham on Saturday evening, and was later released under police investigation.

The Metropolitan Police announced on Thursday that a second, 38-year-old man had been arrested at an address in Lewisham on suspicion of Sabina's murder and was being held in custody.



Just wondering whether both the men arrested lived at the same address in Lewisham or are closely connected, .

 

[DFR3217]

Presumably one of the first things the police would look at would be the cctv from the block of flats SN lived in, and the street around. So if the Telegraph story is right about her being attacked soon after she left home they must have known what the attacker looked like early on.

Presumably then the police are trying to put together the full story, and releasing very little information, while we are here speculating. Which is, I suppose, how it should be.

 

[Pally]

Hunt for SECOND man in Sabina Nessa murder | Daily Mail Online

 

[Pally]

Hunt for SECOND man in Sabina Nessa murder | Daily Mail Online

More CCTV footage of second man

 

[JosephineRobert]

Hunt for SECOND man in Sabina Nessa murder | Daily Mail Online

If the map is accurate it seems she got a fair way down the road before she was attacked? I was imagining right outside her building.