Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #10

[Angleterre]

*edited to keep comment general, in light of recent developments.

Hi all, lurked for years and finally joined having been following poor Sarah's case closely. We're of a similar age, both from Yorkshire, both Durham grads. It's such a heart-breaking case, and her family and friends remain in my thoughts.

I believe this is within the rules, as it is a general comment which I feel may have some relevance regarding the wider discussion that has taken place across threads in relation to Ring doorbell cams. I had planned to mention a few other thoughts, but will keep it as generic as possible being UK-based and a wary first-time poster (I do not want to be the cause of any more time outs/disruptions to the thread at all!). Please do correct me if I have erred in my understanding of the rules.

I live on a busy south-facing main road, and our front door is set back from the pavement by about 5-6m (down the side of the building). You have to do a lot of trial and error with the setup of Ring so that it is not constantly activating/going off, and even with 'the perfect setup' you still get false/irrelevant alerts caused by shadows, moths, cobwebs etc. Everyone else on the street (terraced) has their front door straight out onto the public pavement - we seem to be the only users of Ring (or anything similar). Our next door neighbour installed CCTV over his front door, but it was quickly turned off and hasn't been used in years. Alert-based CCTV, in my experience, would be a nightmare if it was setup to catch all movement on the pavement and/or road. You would have thousands of clips a day to plough through just to check a parcel had actually been delivered (etc.)! I believe there may also be GDPR implications for privately-owned cameras setup to record public roads and pavements. Your phone battery, as well as the camera device battery (if used - most Ring doorbells are) would be exhausted, fast. Same with the paid cloud storage (30 days seems to only be a guide, if you have a shedload of clips you don't usually get the full 30 day history).

On this basis, I believe pcb has a strong theory. IMO it is unlikely a Ring cam was setup to capture general traffic moving in the area, looking at the general layout of residential properties vs pavements in the area. It suggests that SE and/or her attacker strayed closer to a residential property (whether on Poynders or nearby) than the pavement or main road. Personally, I do not foresee this footage being made public, I would imagine it could be quite valuable evidence at trial. All MOO, obviously.

Sorry if this has been covered somewhere that I have missed, I did my best to catch up but this thread has been moving like lightening so sometimes I have to scan-read!

There are no GDPR implications and there are no RIPA applications or authorities given out in respect of this as its monitoring a public place to which the public have a degree of awareness that there is a likelihood that CCTV will be in operation PLUS if you have a sign on your door saying CCTV in operation then you are covered. Issues arise when you start to direct your camera to zoom
In on a person time and again abs thus make them into or they become a target . Then it’s gets more complicated and difficult especially if suspected of committing offences

 

[Mollie123]

I’ve been trolling msm trying to find out how WC keeps getting head injuries and I’m not finding anything that tells us how and why. Two hospital visits for head injuries in a 48 hour period?

Anybody find an msm link with this info?

TIA

Policeman charged with Sarah Everard murder taken to hospital twice in 48 hours The details would not be reported at this stage.

 

[Seattle1]

I’ve been trolling msm trying to find out how WC keeps getting head injuries and I’m not finding anything that tells us how and why. Two hospital visits for head injuries in a 48 hour period?

Anybody find an msm link with this info?

TIA

MSM has only confirmed it happened. It's very odd that it happened while in custody but not really expecting to read how or why at this point.

 

[JCSstudent]

I don't for a second think he'll plead guilty. I think there's a chance he might kill himself before the trial though.

Sadly I agree.
Harold Shipman, Fred West, Ian Huntley (unsuccessful attempts). Seems once these types are caught, they often take that route.
I seriously hope he isn't able to, so SE & her family may at least have justice *if he is guilty*

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

A review and cleanup of the previous thread has resulted in Time Outs.

We've lost patience with these threads. Further bickering and serious violations will result in a minimum 1 week Time Out from Websleuths. Zero tolerance.

Thousands of other members are able to post appropriately. Just post responsibly and respectfully and in accordance with The Rules and there won't be any problems.

As always, our Thanks to members who use the Report feature to let us know of any issues.

This thread will be open for another 3 to 4 hours and will then be closed for the night.

 

[SouthPark]

There are no GDPR implications and there are no RIPA applications or authorities given out in respect of this as its monitoring a public place to which the public have a degree of awareness that there is a likelihood that CCTV will be in operation PLUS if you have a sign on your door saying CCTV in operation then you are covered. Issues arise when you start to direct your camera to zoom
In on a person time and again abs thus make them into or they become a target . Then it’s gets more complicated and difficult especially if suspected of committing offences

Thanks for the clarification Angleterre. I believe if the property is a block of flats the position may be different? I thought that the ICO requires businesses to register if using CCTV for the purposes of crime prevention, and most blocks of flats are operated/run by management companies/housing associations etc. which would presumably fall within the scope of the ICO regime (IMO). Do you happen to know if this understanding regarding the position of flats' CCTV is correct - just out of curiosity? (Obviously, the point still stands that it is highly unlikely anyone who wanted any useful footage from their Ring cam would include busy public thoroughfares within the trigger zones, so I'm not suggesting this question implies in any way that the footage came from the flats on Poynders - just interested to know).

Apologies if this is a derail. I just thought others may also wonder the same.
* edit to clarify as opinion - unable to upload a copy of the source of this belief as it's work-related and therefore confidential (still getting the hang of things and thought I might be on thin ice with my previous wording!).

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

I can't remember the exact poster/forum (apologies) but I also wanted to comment on the ring doorbell footage. Without seeing it, we cannot give a firm opinion, but from my own experience of Poynders, as the previous poster said, the pavement is significantly centred from the flat block entrances. Take a look at google street view, but imagine the road as centre, a pavement, a significant patch of turf, a walkway, and then only the front doors. It makes me wonder if SE ran for help into Rodenhurst Rd or similar for safety before WC was able to catch up with her. All just MOO.

Yes, I raised this previously here :

UK - UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #8

I do think it's significant this footage wasn't released to the media. As you say, it's likely to be a key piece of evidence at the trial. I wonder if WC is even visible on the footage.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Sadly I agree.
Harold Shipman, Fred West, Ian Huntley (unsuccessful attempts). Seems once these types are caught, they often take that route.
I seriously hope he isn't able to, so SE & her family may at least have justice *if he is guilty*

Fred West killed himself after he was ignored by Rose West in court. Imo, I don't think it was linked to the crime or his guilt.

 

[MsBetsy]

They seem like unintelligent people to me.

Defense attorneys or jurors seem like unintelligent people?

 

[Gibbo214]

Defense attorneys or jurors seem like unintelligent people?

No. There are no defence attorneys noted there, but people who don't watch the news, IMO could be classed as that.

 

[SouthPark]

Yes, I raised this previously here :

UK - UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #8

I do think it's significant this footage wasn't released to the media. As you say, it's likely to be a key piece of evidence at the trial. I wonder if WC is even visible on the footage.

Pure speculation on my part, but in addition to pcb55’s suggestion of possible footage of SE trying to flee for help from a neighbouring house, I have similarly started to wonder if the perpetrator was not only briefly visible, but was perhaps caught on camera lurking in someone’s garden/drive/behind a wall or hedge, so he could jump out and have the element of surprise. May be a little cliche-horror-movie-esque to set a scene of ‘the evil man lurking in the shadows’, but sadly it is probably quite an effective way of incapacitating a victim quickly and bundling them away, with less chance of witnesses/a discussion ensuing than trying a stop based on COVID or any other flimsy excuse, especially if the car was in the same driveway or parked a few feet away round a corner.

We only tend to check footage if we notice the notifications and/or it’s an odd time/something has happened that causes us to go back through it/rare occasions police have asked us to check during door to door enquiries. Most people, like us, probably silence notifications because they can be a distraction (especially at work) so won’t necessarily pick the footage up live. Also to note - Ring cams sometimes have a little flip out when you try and load live from a notification and refuse to connect. The quickest thing is to close the app, reopen, try live view again, if it’s still slow loading then the previous clip may have had time to buffer so you can back and forward until that comes up in history to check the trigger event footage. This usually take 1-2 minutes. If it keeps hanging I usually give up and wait 5-10 minutes for it to self-resolve its sudden wonky WiFi connection and try again or (more usually) get on with what I was doing and forget all about it. In my experience, when it goes wonky on connection whoever was there has usually been and gone by the time the footage has buffered and is available to view/you have managed to connect live.

We’ve had loads of randoms in at all hours of the day and night doing all sorts - for that reason if I was watching footage back and saw someone come in and crouch down for a short time and dash off I would assume they were having a wee (or something more gross to clean up - it’s happened!), and wouldn’t look more closely/would close the clip. Even if I’d checked the footage fairly quickly unless it was super clear what was happening I probably wouldn’t have put 2+2 together until I saw the news and SE’s last known route/location. All JMO, of course.

 

[mickey2942]

No. There are no defence attorneys noted there, but people who don't watch the news, IMO could be classed as that.

Not necessarily. When I was a young, working Mother, I literally had zero time to keep up with any news. Same as when I had two jobs before I had kids, I was busy with school, work, friends...just not interested in news. I probably glanced at the paper once in awhile, watched news at my parents house...but not really following any stories.

This did not mean that I was dense. Just other interests.

 

[MsBetsy]

No. There are no defence attorneys noted there, but people who don't watch the news, IMO could be classed as that.

Both defense lawyers and jurors were mentioned in the OP so I wasn't sure who "they" were.

Anyway, I hope jurors selected because they don't watch the news are not unintelligent. Jurors play a role in deciding the fate of a guilty or innocent person and ensuring justice is served for the victim.

I can see how both the prosecution and the defense might not want jurors who follow crime regularly, but I would think it's more important to select a jury that can set aside opinions or biases and concentrate on the evidence presented to them.

 

[LuluR38]

Competence and Compellability | The Crown Prosecution Service Covers spouses competence / whether they can be compelled to give evidence here.

 

[LuluR38]

But they cannot, I believe, be compelled to.

They can be called as a hostile witness if they perhaps don’t want to give truthful evidence (for example a DV victim against their partner if they didn’t want to bring charges or I’ve seen it used this way in the past). And if you’re called to be a witness and summonsed to attend then yes you are compelled to attend or can be arrested.

 

[MsBetsy]

They can be called as a hostile witness if they perhaps don’t want to give truthful evidence (for example a DV victim against their partner if they didn’t want to bring charges or I’ve seen it used this way in the past). And if you’re called to be a witness and summonsed to attend then yes you are compelled to attend or can be arrested.

What about private conversations? Doesn't marital priviledge cover private communications between spouses? For example, if he confessed to his wife in confidence would she have to testify to that?

 

[SouthPark]

They can be called as a hostile witness if they perhaps don’t want to give truthful evidence (for example a DV victim against their partner if they didn’t want to bring charges or I’ve seen it used this way in the past). And if you’re called to be a witness and summonsed to attend then yes you are compelled to attend or can be arrested.

I hope it’s ok to link to CPS guidance.

The section ‘spouses or civil partners’ on this page provides quite a good summary of the circumstances, rules and exceptions regarding compelling spousal testimony:
Competence and Compellability | The Crown Prosecution Service

 

[LuluR38]

Edited as double post - CPS guidelines on s.80 PACE

Competence and Compellability | The Crown Prosecution Service
The prosecution can only compel a spouse or civil partner to give evidence for the prosecution in cases which involve:

• An allegation of an assault on, or injury or a threat of injury to the spouse or civil partner;
• An allegation of an assault on, or injury or a threat of injury to a person who was at the material time under the age of sixteen years;
• An alleged sexual offence against a victim who was at the material time under the age of sixteen years; or
• Attempting, conspiring or aiding and abetting, counselling and procuring to commit the offences in the categories above.

If a spouse witness is divorced from the Defendant or the civil partnership comes to an end before he or she gives evidence, the former spouse/civil partner is competent and compellable to give evidence as if that person and the accused had never been married or had never been civil partners.

 

[Deathsgrandaughter]

They seem like unintelligent people to me.

No. There are no defence attorneys noted there, but people who don't watch the news, IMO could be classed as that.

I don't think that those who don't follow the news are unintelligent. Quoting from the biography of JRR Tolkien by Humphrey Carpenter:
During breakfast, Tolkien glances at the newspaper, but only in
the most cursory fashion. He, like his friend C. S. Lewis, regards
‘news’ as on the whole trivial and to be ignored.

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder if EC will be asked to testify against WC - is there not spousal privilege?

ebm

Yes there is spousal privilege, but I found the following interesting:

From the Crown Prosecution Service (England and Wales):

Spouses or Civil Partners

[...]

If a spouse witness is divorced from the Defendant or the civil partnership comes to an end before he or she gives evidence, the former spouse/civil partner is competent and compellable to give evidence as if that person and the accused had never been married or had never been civil partners.

[...]

Who knows what steps EC may take if presented with irrefutable information and advised what was in her best interest by way of a deal. IOW, if EC was so inclined and filed for divorce, could that be finalized before WC went to trial.

ETA: Sorry, I'm so behind I think I'm first .. someone else post it upthread.